Need some help making my Bots/Traps awesome
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-06-02 05:33 in Masterminds
Simple help with traps. Drop Detonate, get PGT and Trip Mine, if only one PGT. Take it at 20 if possible.
Also, helps if we can have a better idea of your build. I have a bots/traps planned that seems pretty survivable, but when I tried soloing an AV (at 43, mind) I failed miserably, so I know I'm not quite there yet.
50s: Yumi Eryuha-Arch/Energy, Mirria-Thugs/Dark, Meyami Kitsuna-Claws/SR, Celesta Seusen-SS/Invuln, Lady Mirriella-Illusion/Empathy
Arc 503982 "Dimension Xi Epsilon 22-10" Part one of a multi-part arc.
You pretty much have to be slotted in Invention sets to do all that stuff and pretty much be at a minimum of level 47 just to have all your powers slotted and such. Until then if your in SOs then you try to slot for defenses and send your pets in against the most troublesome type of NPC.. EG Nullifiers, Gun slinger, Sapper, ETC.
Nutshell the leveling concept for all mastermind builds is pretty much the same. Tough mobs direct your pets against, easier mobs try to get aggro yourself after eating a few purples to get your defenses up.
Your single best bet is to post the build with mids so players can take a look at it.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Quote:
Woah! Ack! No! Bad! BAAAAD!|
Originally Posted by Makai_No_Falco
Tactics
I basically summon all my pets, buff them, and order them to attack. I focus intently on their health and throw Repair whenever the tier 2 or 3 needs it (if a tier 1 dies...meh). I'm not sure exactly how to use Caltrops or Web Grenade. I summon Seeker Drones but every third time they don't crash into the target. FFG is a no-brainer: just stay close to my pets. Acid Mortar doesn't seem to make a noticeable difference and I've yet to figure out when to properly detonate a bot. Any help on how to play this set? |
Get Provoke. Leave your pets in defensive follow and learn to leverage bodyguard mode. Bodyguard mode is what makes MMs awesome. Jump in head first, drop caltrops and acid morars. Spam Provoke. Don't stand next to your pets while you fight, but keep them in supremacy range. This way AoEs won't hit your henchmen. Stack Web Grenades on tough bosses who like to run away. Spam more provoke!
For tough fights, use the goto command to park your bots in one place. Put a triage beacon between them and where you plan to stand so you both get the +regen. They'll be out of your FFG, but they shouldn't even be getting shot at. The damage they take will be from bodyguard mode and heal back quickly. Seekers are not always necessary, but against tougher opponents you'll really notice the -damage.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
^This. Although I will add if at all possible try to take at least one attack (either from your primary or your epic pool). Provoke alone will suffice against minions since they go down quickly but against the tougher bosses being able to deal some damage will help immensely for holding aggro.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Get Provoke. Leave your pets in defensive follow and learn to leverage bodyguard mode. Bodyguard mode is what makes MMs awesome. Jump in head first, drop caltrops and acid morars. Spam Provoke. Don't stand next to your pets while you fight, but keep them in supremacy range. This way AoEs won't hit your henchmen. Stack Web Grenades on tough bosses who like to run away. Spam more provoke!
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Taunt effects provide some aggro on their own but they also provide a large multiplier to the aggro generated by subsequent attacks. One useful option if you're taking the PPPs (except mace) is to take the AoE immobilize attack since that way you get control and damage.
So basically what I'm hearing from this is that I'll need to get IOs before I'm able to be awesome, and that I need provoke and one of my blasts. I'm gonna need that god-awful pulse rifle, ain't I?
"You must never imagine, that just because something is funny, it is not also dangerous." - Neil Gaiman
"You know what I love? People who respond with aggression and belligerence thinking it replaces logic." - Blue Mourning
Quote:
I don't have the pulse rifle. Typically, caltrops and provoke is enough to keep aggro. Occasionally I throw out an ice blast.|
Originally Posted by Makai_No_Falco
So basically what I'm hearing from this is that I'll need to get IOs before I'm able to be awesome, and that I need provoke and one of my blasts. I'm gonna need that god-awful pulse rifle, ain't I?
|
IOs are completely unnecessary. I have solo'd an AV with SOs alone before incarnate powers.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
to echo this... Hover + provoke or Hovoke... is very useful for keeping them insid ethe lovely Supremacy area, and hopefully away from all the big hits.
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Woah! Ack! No! Bad! BAAAAD!
Get Provoke. Leave your pets in defensive follow and learn to leverage bodyguard mode. Bodyguard mode is what makes MMs awesome. Jump in head first, drop caltrops and acid morars. Spam Provoke. Don't stand next to your pets while you fight, but keep them in supremacy range. This way AoEs won't hit your henchmen. Stack Web Grenades on tough bosses who like to run away. Spam more provoke! For tough fights, use the goto command to park your bots in one place. Put a triage beacon between them and where you plan to stand so you both get the +regen. They'll be out of your FFG, but they shouldn't even be getting shot at. The damage they take will be from bodyguard mode and heal back quickly. Seekers are not always necessary, but against tougher opponents you'll really notice the -damage. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
|
Quote:
Not really, IOs make Bots/Traps extremely awesome but it's still very awesome even on SOs. Similarly the pulse rifle is not required. A lot of MM's run without any personal attacks at all. If you do take personal attacks the ones in the epic pools offer perfectly viable options. I personally prefer the pulse rifle attacks since most epic pool powers have doubled recharge but you can manage just fine without the pulse rifle.
|
Originally Posted by Makai_No_Falco
So basically what I'm hearing from this is that I'll need to get IOs before I'm able to be awesome, and that I need provoke and one of my blasts. I'm gonna need that god-awful pulse rifle, ain't I?
|
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Siegrain: Level 50 Natural Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1: Battle Drones BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Acc(5), BldM'dt-Dmg(7)
Level 1: Web Grenade Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(43), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(46), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(50), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(50)
Level 2: Caltrops RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Triage Beacon Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal(9), Dct'dW-Rchg(11)
Level 6: Equip Robot EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(46), DefBuff-I(50)
Level 10: Acid Mortar AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(11), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(37), AnWeak-DefDeb(37), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(37)
Level 12: Protector Bots BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(13), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(13), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), BldM'dt-Acc(15), BldM'dt-Dmg(17)
Level 14: Super Jump Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Force Field Generator RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(17), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def(25), RedFtn-EndRdx(33)
Level 18: Maneuvers RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(19), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(19), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def(21), RedFtn-EndRdx(23)
Level 20: Poison Trap EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Assault EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(34)
Level 24: Tactics GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(34), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Build%(36)
Level 26: Assault Bot BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), BldM'dt-Acc(29), BldM'dt-Dmg(33)
Level 28: Seeker Drones Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Rope-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Provoke Mocking-Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(31), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(33)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Boxing T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(40), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(40), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), T'Death-Dam%(46)
Level 38: Vengeance DefBuff-I(A)
Level 41: Charged Armor EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(42), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Tough EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(45), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Weave EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(48), DefBuff-I(48), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Detonator RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift Empty(A)
Level 2: Health Heal-I(A), Heal-I(39), Mrcl-Rcvry+(39)
Level 2: Hurdle Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina EndMod-I(A)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
12% DamageBuff(Smashing)
12% DamageBuff(Lethal)
12% DamageBuff(Fire)
12% DamageBuff(Cold)
12% DamageBuff(Energy)
12% DamageBuff(Negative)
12% DamageBuff(Toxic)
12% DamageBuff(Psionic)
9.69% Defense(Smashing)
9.69% Defense(Lethal)
15.6% Defense(Fire)
15.6% Defense(Cold)
9.38% Defense(Energy)
9.38% Defense(Negative)
11.9% Defense(Melee)
18.8% Defense(Ranged)
18.1% Defense(AoE)
1.8% Max End
3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
4% Enhancement(Heal)
18.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
11% Enhancement(Accuracy)
5% FlySpeed
27.1 HP (3.38%) HitPoints
5% JumpHeight
5% JumpSpeed
MezResist(Held) 5.5%
MezResist(Immobilize) 7.15%
MezResist(Stun) 7.15%
MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
7% (0.12 End/sec) Recovery
10% (0.33 HP/sec) Regeneration
3.78% Resistance(Fire)
3.78% Resistance(Cold)
1.88% Resistance(Negative)
5% RunSpeed
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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With all of the powers activated, I have some serious S/L/NRG resists and I'm softcapped to Ranged and AoE, and over 40% on Melee. Any advice on this build?
And no, I'm not losing Detonator. I am not making a Bots/Traps without the ability to blow up a robot because...I wanna blow up a robot!
"You must never imagine, that just because something is funny, it is not also dangerous." - Neil Gaiman
"You know what I love? People who respond with aggression and belligerence thinking it replaces logic." - Blue Mourning
Slot some defense in your protector bot. Don't forget that he gives you 7.5% (unenhanced) defense to everything.
A general note: Set bonuses don't do much for masterminds since they don't carry over to the pets. You'll get a lot of mileage out of frankenslotting.
For comparison sake, you can take a look at my experimental build.
Code:
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Stuff I would do:
Web Grenade:
Switch out another power for Electrifying Fences and throw in (at least in the default slot) the Gravitation Anchor: Chance for Hold. So this power now does
-AoE immobilize (that the big bot will NOT KB them from)
-generate aggro for you (which is good)
-Chance for 25% hold on each target
Acid Mortar:
-Get a 6th slot in there and get the Achilles' Heel proc
Poison Trap:
...I cried at the zero love that this got. This power is so very, very good.
-6 slot it!
-Procs to add:
1. Lockdown: Chance for +2 Mag Hold (if you do anything with this power, do this)
2. Neuronic Shutdown: Chance for Psi DMG
3. Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance for Psi DMG
4. Gladiator's Net: Chance for Lethal DMG
5. Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing DMG
-Last slot = recharge IO
-It is now a passive pulsing hold + damage machine. Welcome to the terrordome.
People generally slot this with hold sets..if a set IO is giving me ACC/END/Range, to me, it is a waste (remember, it is auto-hit!...it can't take ACC IO can it now?). This power can eat so many procs, you should load up on those.
Drop Boxing and Vengeance
Also don't need tough or weave, you can softcap with just your Primary/Secondary (+ IO sets & your ProtBot, give him DEF IOs or Hami-Os. Maxed, his shields give 11.8% DEF IIRC)
Drop Detonator
Take Hasten, at lesat 2 slot it wih recharge
I would pick up Trip Mine...in a fight, after you drop your traps, you are doing what..if not provoking, attacking...and if everything's in a nice little bundle from your AoE Immob, what better thing to do then lay on massive AoE damage?
And you should be softcapped to M/R/AoE and S/L. You can do this *without* Fighting pool and *without* epic pool shields (use that for resistance instead).
One word...PROCS PROCS PROCS, PROCS PROCS PROCS!! (EVERY-BODAYYY!!)
......wow. I apologize for that infraction...yet it was necessary!
Bots/Traps is a procs beast...please look at all available options for them. Some can dish out some serious (passive) damage for you.
Some that I didn't cover yet:
-2 Pet uniques for DEF and RES (make sure to fit these in!)
-Explosive Strike for Assault bot
-Damage procs in mortar
-KD proc & damage procs for caltrops (although before ED, I think 2 DMG IOs are better)
-probably forgetting a few..don't have build in front of me
General strategy:
1. Send in seeker drones (from distance)
2. Queue AoE immob and approach mob, it will fire off when you are close enough
3. Run in and drop poison trap right at their feet.
4. Acid mortar (around this time your bots will lumber in and start blasting. Defensive/Follow ONLY, do not tell them to attack a target otherwise BG mode doesn't work!)
5. Caltrops ON the mob. Pee yourself in giddy happiness (optional)
6. Provoke
7. Trip mine
8. Drop triage somewhere in there
Or: 1, 3, 5 (functions more as control here than damage), 4, 6, 7
The point is that you want the bad guys targetting YOU (cuz you are all softcapped and 1337 now anyway), and not your bots. Ordering your bots to directly attack a target is probably one of the worst things you can do..especially when that attack eats an alpha in return.
Probably forgetting stuff, but those are the tweaks I would make, at least for now. YMMV 
Best,
-MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
Quote:
This is slightly wrong. The pulsing hold is auto-hit but the initial hold is not (I'm not certain if it actually benefits from ACC or not).
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Originally Posted by Master_Templar
People generally slot this with hold sets..if a set IO is giving me ACC/END/Range, to me, it is a waste (remember, it is auto-hit!...it can't take ACC IO can it now?).
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Quote:
Good catch. It confused me a bit personally since it does not accept ACC IOs, so I figured that part of the enhancement was simply "dead". So I guess it is more of a question of whether or not a set IO can enhance the ACC of the initial hold or not.. that, I am not sure of.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
This is slightly wrong. The pulsing hold is auto-hit but the initial hold is not (I'm not certain if it actually benefits from ACC or not).
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-MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
I'm going with just enough defense on my bots/traps that the protector bots will softcap me. I can focus on a little more +recharge as a result. This is the first build I made but I'm still debating over which epic pool to stick with.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:
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SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
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Quoting this for emphasis. I barely have my Drones slotted at all, but I manage to come out all-right just on the fact that I can summon the drones at a distance to take the alpha for me and my squad on my traps/mercs. Everything else is just gravy.
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Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Stuff I would do:
General strategy: 1. Send in seeker drones (from distance) |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Woah! Ack! No! Bad! BAAAAD!
Get Provoke. Leave your pets in defensive follow and learn to leverage bodyguard mode. Bodyguard mode is what makes MMs awesome. |
It can help for sure, but I wanted to point out that MM's do not need to be bodygaurd dependent to be effective.
Over the course of many respecs and different builds tried, I found I enjoyed a defense build the best. I've used the taunt/resistance BG dependent build before. It's a great tough build, for sure. I found however, that building for defense is certainly no less survivable and for me personally, was more fun to play because I can set tripmines in the middle of an angry group and tell all my bots to focus on one enemy.
The trick with the defense build is in the seeker drones. Enhance them for recharge and tohit debuff and use them constantly. Combined with the protector bot seekers pretty much nothing can hit you or your pets.
The downside to the build is that its much more expensive than a resistance build. It was pointed out can solo AV's without IO's or incarnates. While it is possible to solo an AV with no incarnates or IO's, it is much tougher than it would be with an SO resistance build. The up side is that once fully IO slotted, a defense built bot/traps can solo pretty much any AV or GM in the game, including heavy AoE enemies that can be a challenge to resistance builds.
A secondary benefit to defense building is the extra recharge from lotg 7.5's. 3 acid mortars will squishify pretty much anything.
Here's my bot/traps current build:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
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Rainmaker-MX: Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones
- (A) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus
- (3) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (5) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (5) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (7) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (A) Gravitational Anchor - Chance for Hold
- (11) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Endurance
- (11) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (19) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Recharge
- (40) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Pacing of the Turtle - Endurance/Recharge/Slow
- (7) Pacing of the Turtle - Range/Slow
- (9) Pacing of the Turtle - Damage/Slow
- (9) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Slow
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal
- (40) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
- (42) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (43) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
- (48) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Recharge
- (48) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Defense Debuff
- (A) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus
- (13) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage
- (13) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Endurance
- (15) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (15) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (17) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (A) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold
- (21) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
- (21) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
- (23) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge
- (23) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold
- (25) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
- (A) Healing IO
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
- (25) Doctored Wounds - Heal
- (27) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (27) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
- (29) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (A) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up
- (29) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge
- (31) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge
- (31) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (31) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (33) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (A) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff
- (34) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (34) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
- (34) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
- (37) Dark Watcher's Despair - Recharge/Endurance
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (33) Recharge Reduction IO
- (33) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (36) Obliteration - Damage
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
- (39) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (39) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
- (39) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
- (40) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (50) Karma - Knockback Protection
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Ion Partial Core Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Partial Radial Conversion
Level 50: Clockwork Total Core Improved Ally
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Demonic Aura
Level 0: Invader
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Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
Level 2: Rest
- (A) Empty
Level 2: Swift
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (43) Miracle - +Recovery
- (45) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
- (45) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (45) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (46) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (46) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
- (46) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
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Why not both? I'm sotcapped to S/L & positionals (M/AoE/R) and pretty close on Energy/Fire/Cold/Negative (1-2% away from the cap), and I run the RES shield out of Mu APP for 40% resist to S/L/E. You make it sound like people say that BG mode/Taunt is necessary for the PLAYER to not die. In fact, it is counterintuitive..if I'm taunting I'm taking more damage/aggro than I normally would...what's stopping me from just sending my pets to their doom on every spawn? This poses pretty much zero risk to me. |
Originally Posted by BAWNG
It can help for sure, but I wanted to point out that MM's do not need to be bodygaurd dependent to be effective.
Over the course of many respecs and different builds tried, I found I enjoyed a defense build the best. I've used the taunt/resistance BG dependent build before. It's a great tough build, for sure. I found however, that building for defense is certainly no less survivable and for me personally, was more fun to play because I can set tripmines in the middle of an angry group and tell all my bots to focus on one enemy. |
IMO, the point of BG/taunt is to take attention away from the pets since you are more survivable than they are, and they are the ones doing most of the attacking. When baby bot does his AoE cone (this generates aggro of course), you don't want 6-8 (or whatever) angry mobs shooting back in his face. He's gonna get a load of spike damage that might knock him down to 33% health, or perhaps lower. And if he keeps the aggro and isn't healed soon, he could die. (NO DISASSEMBLE!!) Why not channel it through you (BG/taunt), through your DEFs and RES, and then SHARE the damage among yourself and your bots? Otherwise baby bot gets smacked around needlessly. If you're doing it right, you should see all bots health drop together (albeit very slowly)..this is where Triage comes in, aid other, repair, protector bot heal, etc. Of course someone is gonna go wander off and smack a boss with brawl..but that's where your Provoke and aggro generation comes in
Also, if you are not in BG mode, and you get hit hard, you take the full amount of the damage..and if you're dead and your bots have full health, your bots now have no health.
As always, YMMV
Best,
MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BAWNG
It can help for sure, but I wanted to point out that MM's do not need to be bodygaurd dependent to be effective.
Over the course of many respecs and different builds tried, I found I enjoyed a defense build the best. I've used the taunt/resistance BG dependent build before. It's a great tough build, for sure. I found however, that building for defense is certainly no less survivable and for me personally, was more fun to play because I can set tripmines in the middle of an angry group and tell all my bots to focus on one enemy. |
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Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Why not both?
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I do have a command set up that tells my Assbot and Protectors who to target. I don't use it often, but since they are the majority of my damage, it is a great way to focus fire without removing all of my bodyguard mode.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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I never use bodygaurd. I never die. Nor do my pets. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Leveraging bodyguard mode will always lead to better personal survival, whether you build defense or resistance.
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I use the same protector/assault bot attack command as well. That's actually the one I use when I do want a bit of pet resistance.
The main reason I didn't like leaving my pets in defense follow was because it seems to take longer to kill large groups when each pet chooses a different target. It speeds things up to focus your damage.
I'm not saying your way is bad or that mine is better. I'm saying that mine seems equally effective, based on personal experience.
You can't die less often than never. Seems that we're both describing methods of playing the game that result in never dying.
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And what are your difficulty settings?|
Originally Posted by BAWNG
I never use bodygaurd. I never die. Nor do my pets.
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Originally Posted by BAWNG
I'm not saying your way is bad or that mine is better. I'm saying that mine seems equally effective, based on personal experience.
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Originally Posted by BAWNG
You can't die less often than never. Seems that we're both describing methods of playing the game that result in never dying.
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I could play an ice/empathy troller on SOs that "never dies," but if his difficulty was never set higher than +0/x1, is that really a testament to his survivability?
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
I think we're misunderstanding each other here. My point has never been that it's less or more survivable than your way of building. Numbers wise, yes your way of building can take more damage than mine. My point is that my way seems to survive just fine, and has offensive benefits due to the way I play. The main reason is that focusing all the pets on one target seems to decrease the time it takes to kill an entire group. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
And what are your difficulty settings?
I'm not claiming one way is better than the other because I cannot define "better" for all cases. My claim is that "Leveraging bodyguard mode will always lead to better personal survival, whether you build defense or resistance." Personal experience means very little in an argument like this. Numerically, in ways we can prove, a softcapped MM in bodyguard mode can survive a lot more damage than one that is not in bodyguard mode. |
But I can think of a couple scenarios where staying in BG mode will make you less survivable than telling your pets to attack. In a nutshell, any time you come across the certain enemy types that kill henchmen really fast. Things with burn patches/missiles or any similar AoE toon. If you don't tell your pets to attack the threat target the target can end up dropping all your pets. If you build for BG mode, you're pretty much dead as soon as all the pets are gone. I'm not. I don't even run away anymore if all my pets die and the summon skill is still recharging. Just stand and wait to summon again.
Here is the exact fight scenario that made me change my tactics:
I keep my pets in BG mode to fight woodsman. Woodsman summons pets all the time. Since I'm staying in BG mode some of my pets are aggroed to woodsman's henchmen instead of woodsman. Fight takes forever and a day. Pets won't stay on woodsman, I can't tell them to attack because I'll die if I leave BG mode. Woodsman, being an AV with confuse eventually confuses me and my pets, at which point they turn on me, forcing me to put them in passive. Once I do this I get killed with no BG resistance.
Here's how the same fought worked one respec and new tactics later: I tell my pets to attack woodsman. I spam web nade on him to keep as much aggro as I can. Confuse doesn't matter, since my pets have an attack command. Bots ignore his pet moose, I deal with them myself using tripmines. The couple of times that a few of my pets get killed, aid self/triage beacon are able to repair the few hits that do get through my defense. I simply re-summon and keep them attacking.
Lord Recluse would work the same way as well, but by the time I fought him I had already changed my build.
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| Again, what are your difficulty settings? How well do you handle Archvillains? Giant Monsters? |
I've been able to solo literally every GM or AV that I've tried. Here's the list: Deathsurge, Caleb, Ghost of Scrapyard, Stropharia, Quarry, Thorn, Lattuce, Nemsis 54-AV, Black Scorpion 54-AV, Quatrexin 54-AV, Silver Mantis 54-AV, The Radio 54-AV, Lord Recluse 54-AV, Hro'Dtohz 54(I think?)-AV, Woodsman (can't remember)-AV. Just killed Ghost of the scrapyard today actually. Was farming EoE's last night and managed to kill 2 DE monsters at the same time (quarry and thorn). All of these enemies were killed without using temp powers. I've killed more, but that's all I can recall off the top of my head. I've been using a bot/traps as what I call an "ego farmer" (AV/GM soloist) for years now.
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| I could play an ice/empathy troller on SOs that "never dies," but if his difficulty was never set higher than +0/x1, is that really a testament to his survivability? |
I don't actually need to be out of BG mode, I just have found that I don't need to be IN BG mode all the time and have gotten used to focused damage.
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Indeed we are, and I apologize for what of that is my fault.|
Originally Posted by BAWNG
I think we're misunderstanding each other here.
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I think I see our main disconnect, though, is that you use the phrase "build for bodyguard mode."
I don't think our builds are very different, as you said you are defense oriented, and so am I. You mention taking aggro from your henchmen, which is something that typically goes with bodyguard mode. I haven't "built for bodyguard mode;" I simply use it. I am not sure whether I truly need it all the time.
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Originally Posted by BAWNG
But I can think of a couple scenarios where staying in BG mode will make you less survivable than telling your pets to attack. In a nutshell, any time you come across the certain enemy types that kill henchmen really fast. Things with burn patches/missiles or any similar AoE toon.
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Originally Posted by BAWNG
+4x8. Was +2x8 before I had IO sets.
I've been able to solo literally every GM or AV that I've tried. |
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Originally Posted by BAWNG
I don't actually need to be out of BG mode, I just have found that I don't need to be IN BG mode all the time and have gotten used to focused damage.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Glad we understand each other
When it comes down to it, enjoying your character is what is most important.
Quote:
I see what happened here. I wasn't clear on this tactic. It was like 7AM and I was tired...| You mention taking aggro from your henchmen, which is something that typically goes with bodyguard mode. I haven't "built for bodyguard mode;" I simply use it. I am not sure whether I truly need it all the time. |
I certainly don't send my pets into the fight and stand back watching them die. I try to get as much aggro as I can, I just don't have taunt to help me do so. Probably unfortunate, but sometimes you just run out of powers. Usually how a fight goes for me is I put my pets in follow defensive until I'm in the middle of the mob with them next to me, then I tell my assaulut bot and battle drones to attack whatever the highest ranked target is that is close to the middle of the enemy group. Once I'm sure I'm not taking tons of damage I hit my secondary attack command and tell my protector bots to attack the target. I have three mouse binds for my pets. One is defense/follow, my secondary attack is Assault bot/Protector bots attack (single target BG mode), and my main attack for mission group type mobs is assault bot/battle drones attack (AoE BG mode[bind is petcom_pow "O" attack aggressive]).
Back in the gold old days, before they buffnerfed the upgrades, I would only give my assault bot the lvl 32 upgrade and he would spam nothing but missiles and didn't have the worthless flamethrower (that, I might add is probably responsible for about 95% of assault bot deaths). I try to do this setup when I can, but it's nearly impossible to maintain. I also used to only give my drones the lvl 6 upgrade for higher single target damage but now with interface debuff/fire DoT the full auto is a decent attack.
Though I do have to admit, I did use BG mode a lot more before I had barrier.
BAWNG,
Good stuff here. I haven't actually tried soloing any of the big stuff yet myself (not quite 50 yet, about one bub from 48), but I think I could handle it. Curious what build you were using before and after LR since you said you respec'd and it sounds like now you're seeing better results. I know Dechs uses Ice for Hoarfrost and lots of HP bonuses to get the most out of the BG mode. I opt for Mu pool with RES instead (and softcapped DEF of course). Plus the AoE immob keeps big bot from knocking things around. It seems you go pure DEF so I'm wondering how you set your build up.
Also, any particular advice for our OP?
Best,
MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
I have multiple 50s, but most of them are melee, and this level 41 is my highest level Mastermind. I've heard accounts of Bots/Traps MMs being able to solo +4x8, AVs, and GMs, and there's no way I could see my guy doing that, which means I'm not playing him right.
Build
From the primary, I took all three pet powers and both buffs of course. I also took Repair because I had the space for it and nothing better to grab. I skipped the blasts.
From the secondary, I've taken every power except Trip Mine and Poison Trap. Web Grenade I tossed an ACC into and called it a day, same with Caltrops only with a Recharge. FFG is slotted for defense and Triage Beacon's going to get Doctored Wounds when I hit 50. I'm not sure how to slot Acid Morter or Seeker Drones.
Pool powers: I have the full leadership set, and Stealth. My travel power is Combat Jumping.
Tactics
I basically summon all my pets, buff them, and order them to attack. I focus intently on their health and throw Repair whenever the tier 2 or 3 needs it (if a tier 1 dies...meh). I'm not sure exactly how to use Caltrops or Web Grenade. I summon Seeker Drones but every third time they don't crash into the target. FFG is a no-brainer: just stay close to my pets. Acid Mortar doesn't seem to make a noticeable difference and I've yet to figure out when to properly detonate a bot. Any help on how to play this set?
"You must never imagine, that just because something is funny, it is not also dangerous." - Neil Gaiman
"You know what I love? People who respond with aggression and belligerence thinking it replaces logic." - Blue Mourning