IMO, both are good, so your initial choice comes down to -melee or ranged?
NW if you prefer melee interaction, Fort if you prefer ranged. NW is probably better at single targets, Forts at area effects.
You can't go wrong either way. And I said initial choice for this reason: pick one path to go to, and use your second build for the other. It will take some times to get both of them slotted out like you'd want, but then you'll be able to change builds to suit whichever mood strikes you at the time.
My Deviant Art page link-link
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If you bring SoA to blue side before unlocking the patron arc, then you have to move her back to red side, unlock the first portion and then you should be able to choose Patron powers. SoA does not have access to Epic sets.
As for Night Widow VS Fortunata, they are both good. Fortunata win s a bit (IMO) for being more versatile. Night Widow is mostly a high-damage Stalker, or a Claw Scrapper without aoe knockback in Shockwave but with excellent team buffs.
Basically, all branches of SoA are good. You can't go wrong with any route. The only route that may require "certain taste" is Bane. Bane hits pretty hard but he is quite slow. Almost everything he does has 2s activation timer. If you like hidden Stalker, then Bane should be great.
The beauty of SoA is that you can always make a 2nd build to try out different things. You are not locked in Fortunata or NW.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Fortunata can also build for Melee, and have 95% of the offense of a NW, with additional controls for survivability. Fortunata requires more recharge to perma-mindlink. The only real difference between a Melee Fort and a NW is Elude vs Controls and Recharge time on Mind link.
There are several very long threads discussing the differences, including builds and offensive dps testing if you browse further into the forum.
Why chose? You can have multiple builds now, one for NW and another for Fortuna?
Their both decent as others mentioned, its more about which style you prefer more, if you prefer more range with decent defense and control options, go Fort, if you prefer a primarily melee type go NW. There is a 3rd option, less distinct than the Huntsman build with soldiers, but what I believe is termed the blood widow. Basically your a fort who uses those melee attacks, unlike a NW, you wouldn't get some of the high end attacks, mental training, or elude elude, but you would get the control options of a fort, along with the Followup+Aim( you can get Followup+Aim, but not Followup+Build Up, combine that damage bonus to double assault and whatever damage set bonuses) Combination along with the mini nuke Psi Shockwave, note one of the benifits of getting the toon to 50, and getting its Alpha Slot unlocked, is that you can have all three builds.
Here's a good thread that has some comparisons, too. The money quotation for me is "If you want to be a kick-butt, team-buffing melee, you should pick night widow. If you want to be more of a hybrid who's a solid melee but with a grab-bag of tricks and abilities, be a fortunata."
Quote:
Hmm...I must be doing it wrong because my Fort is all ranged and AoE. |
Originally Posted by Pampl
Here's a good thread that has some comparisons, too. The money quotation for me is "If you want to be a kick-butt, team-buffing melee, you should pick night widow. If you want to be more of a hybrid who's a solid melee but with a grab-bag of tricks and abilities, be a fortunata."
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Oh, and by the way my Fort build is way more survivable than the NW build. AoE stun/nuke + AoE Hold + AoE Confuse helps occasionally.
Thanks all! There is a lot of great feedback here.
My Widow is still at a lowly level 2, so I have some time to think it through, but I definitely like the idea of using the dual builds. I've never seen a need for it on any of my other toons, but it totally makes sense here.
Another patron power question...with all the powers that are available for the widows, are the patron powers really used that much? If so, which set?
Quote:
Well, Widow path and power tools have many useful powers but some patron powers are unique: |
Originally Posted by Scorcharina
Thanks all! There is a lot of great feedback here.
My Widow is still at a lowly level 2, so I have some time to think it through, but I definitely like the idea of using the dual builds. I've never seen a need for it on any of my other toons, but it totally makes sense here. Another patron power question...with all the powers that are available for the widows, are the patron powers really used that much? If so, which set? |
1. Shatter Armor (heavy ST attack that debuffs resistance by 20% but causes weapon draw)
2. Darkest Night (debuff values are not high but it debuffs -damage which is something that none of the SoA has. Endurance cost is high so make sure you run Cardiac. Use it to do aoe pull and unleash your aoe attacks)
3. I've seen Soldiers using Arctic Breath/Bile Spray. Arctic Breath gives you another resistance debuff and Bile Spray's toxic damage fits Soldier's Venom Grenade 40% toxic debuff.
4. Web Envelop: AoE web that can ground flyers. It's very useful sometimes and you really only need one slot in it.
5. AoE Immb powers. They have their uses. I took it on my Fortunata because she is all ranged and immbing foes improve my survival. I want to take Darkest Night so I might as well take Soul Tentacles.
Patron pets are kinda unique but personally, I find them a waste of time. You want more dps? Just take double Assault. I've tried Widow Sister build with Blood Widow build (follow up) using Blood Widow patron and she sucks. On just +2x5 against CoT (the easiest high level mob) setting and with my double Maneuver and Mind Link, she still drops so fast.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
I have a post in the linked thread, but I'll sum up a bit here: NW = solid melee performer and team buffer, that's easily built to its top capability on a moderate budget. Fort = solid melee performer or moderate ranged performer, plus moderate controller, that's more expensive to build to its top capability. |
Originally Posted by Scorcharina
Thanks all! There is a lot of great feedback here.
My Widow is still at a lowly level 2, so I have some time to think it through, but I definitely like the idea of using the dual builds. I've never seen a need for it on any of my other toons, but it totally makes sense here. Another patron power question...with all the powers that are available for the widows, are the patron powers really used that much? If so, which set? |
The NW has a mild ST damage advantage, the fortunata has a mild AOE damage advantage. I think incarnate powers make them more equal than ever in some regards - the reactive interface in particular overpowers their damage differences, IMO. At this juncture I'd pick the one I preferred playing, really. Or use dual builds to do both, and switch situationally - I think forts have an edge in 'normal' content and NWs have an edge in incarnate trials (because the fort's lack of ability to stack area control magnitude is going to hurt them against the IDF and +con enemies).
As for patron powers... I recommend against them for melee widows most of the time. I did some testing on the test server and found that the claw redraw triggered by using any of the patron powers badly diminished their DPS improvement. Shatter armor, for example, results in much less than 20% improved DPS - taking pool leadership assault is realistically about the same benefit. Gloom or mu lightning can actually hurt your DPS if you're a claws user. If you're a ranged fort, though, you'll want gloom. Badly. The psi attacks in fort have much worse stats in terms of DPA than the claw attacks.
For an NW I'd suggest grabbing aid self and 'extras' from your own set, like placate or smoke grenade or even confront (it's good for soloing AVs) before I'd suggest taking patron powers. For a fort, I'd say it depends on if you're going melee or ranged, and how much AOE you want.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Sorry for my bad English!!!
Fort, ranged
PRO:
Fort CAN have perma mind link without hasten (but with Aid self for self-healing, Tough\Weawe for S\L resist and defenses, Double maneuvers\assault for party, and hover for hoverblaster playstyle and additional defense)
The same Fort can have capped positional defenses (>45) without mind link
The same Fort can have all defenses capped (>45) with mind link
The same Fort can have capped positional defenses for incarnate trials (>60) with mind link.
The same Fort can have Musculature Alpha (~+30% DPS) without any endurance problem (even while running 10 (!) toggles).
The same Fort can forget about existence of Inspirations at all..
The same Fort can have full pve invisibility just as a bonus...
Powerful ST chain, good AoE, Nuke, Controls, god-level defenses, self-healing and party buffing...
Being a ranged character, Fort is more survivable then NW
CON:
Build cost is more 15 billion inf...
and you must have Ageless Core Epiphany OR Cardiac Core Paragon (for Endurance, global recharge from Ageless is just a bonus, but Ageless in Destiny slot = Musculature in Alpha)...
Or use anything you want and eat blue insp occasionally... Fort already have lowest endurance problem from all SoA...
Main:
Datarus, WP/TW Tanker
Well, I'm now at level 18 with the Widow and I think I'm going to start with the Fortunata build. I'll definitely add the 2nd build as a NW, but I realized how much I prefer to stand back and target, rather than chase after everything.
As a bonus, my hubby also started a Widow and we are running them as a level pact. I can see some extreme damge ahead of us.
Quote:
Don't forget to take double Assault. Between you two, you'll have 60% damage team buff. :P
|
Originally Posted by Scorcharina
Well, I'm now at level 18 with the Widow and I think I'm going to start with the Fortunata build. I'll definitely add the 2nd build as a NW, but I realized how much I prefer to stand back and target, rather than chase after everything.
As a bonus, my hubby also started a Widow and we are running them as a level pact. I can see some extreme damge ahead of us. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
It's my understanding that Melee Forts are actually superior to Night Widows in Purped Out builds if- and thats a BIG IF- you have the money to put the build together and you put the build together intelligently.
I know mine was just pathetically insane single target buzzsaw damage with good AOE before I took all his purps out for my SS/SD Brute. I was pissed I couldn't get the Talsorian claw graphics on him so I said screw it, but if costume options don't bother you- and you have the money- I'd say Melee Fort > Night Widow for a variety of reasons.
Ping me at @Psion or Psion2.
Ok, as I get to closer to 50, I figured I would start looking at my final build. Here is my first shot at the Night Widow.
What do you think?
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Black Lily: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart
- (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
- (3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
- (27) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
- (34) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (46) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (46) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (9) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (27) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (37) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (5) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (5) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (15) Red Fortune - Defense
- (15) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
- (7) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
- (7) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
- (34) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
- (43) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (9) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (34) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (45) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (46) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (11) Recharge Reduction IO
- (11) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (13) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (13) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (17) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (36) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (19) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (25) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (45) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (21) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
- (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (29) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (29) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Red Fortune - Defense
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (31) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (37) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (33) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (33) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (33) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (43) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (43) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) HamiO:Golgi Exposure
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (39) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (39) Interrupt Reduction IO
- (39) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
- (48) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
- (48) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
- (48) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
- (50) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (50) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest
- (A) Empty
Level 2: Swift
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Miracle - +Recovery
- (17) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (40) Miracle - Heal
- (50) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
- (21) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (25) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
- (37) Performance Shifter - EndMod
Can any one point me to the direction where I can find a sample melee fortunata build? Or just post one here just to give me some general idea?
Many thanks.
I took a long time to get to lvl 50 on my NW/Fort, but most of it was with a Fortunata build. Once I got to lvl 50, I optimised my Fortunata build, and used by second build slot for Night widow.
I made sure the night widow had only minimal ranged powers (I think the only one she has is Dart Burst). I rarely need to chase down baddies, and I find my melee AoEs much better suited to my playstyle.
For the Fortunata build, I don't believe I have a single Melee power. I don't consider the Nuke or PBAoE confuse to be "melee" powers. I am an experienced blaster, and because I already have a build specialized in Melee, I can always switch if I feel a hankering for punching people in the face. I did take both mental blast (the cone, whatever its name is) and Dart Burst (despite the redraw). The Fortunata is more suited to team play, but either one is a phenominal asset to have on the team, as both builds have inherent leadership, Mind Link, and other buffs.
While she was undoubtedly the most expensive character I have ever slotted out, I only spent about 1 billion on her. How? I earned most of the expensive inhancers, like LotG and so-on. Then, I kept earning them after I had all I needed and sold them to finance a few more expensive sets. In all, I have defenses comfortably above the defense caps without Mind Link in both builds, perma ML in Nigh Widow, and ML **most** of the time in Fortunata. When ML is on, I have defense in the 60's across the board, which is nice (when enemies has inherent tohit bonuses). Then, just for kicks, in Night Widow, if I get in a tight spot, I can hit Elude, bringing my defenses to about 110%.
I never took a patron powerset with either build becuase they were unnescissary, and let's face it: many of the epic/patron powers available are more endurance-expensive, do less damage or other effects in general than their counterparts, and require valuable slots in order to become viable in many cases. Besides, VEATs have far more powers to select from than regular archetypes.
Most importantly, enjoy it!
Here's another thread on Forts, where there are a few melee Fort builds posted. (Not my builds, but the other folks.)
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=256737
Played a NW from 20 to 50, io'd to capdef, had fun but was not that fun. Made a Fortuna Melee/Ranged Build and a new costum and now she rocks.
- My Melee Fort is in my sig.
- Other builds including nightwidow and one of many other things can be found in the archives in my sig.
- A Free GMail or Goggle Docs login may be required to download the archives.
- Just because a build is in the archives, doesn't mean it's a good build. There's no documentation or explanations to go with the builds. It is assumed the player can evaluate the builds themselves for their own purposes.
After years of basically ignoring the Red side, I'm starting to play around with it again. I got a Corruptor up to level 45 back when you had to get a Villain to 50 to unlock the VEATs and then took a break from the game before they switched it.
Now I'm back and decided to try a Widow. I figured I'd poke around the boards to gather some info as I level her up and now realize I have some choices to make. I've always been fond of high AoE toons (fire/fire blaster, fire/fire tank, spines/WP scrapper), but think I could be happy with a very high single target damage toon.
So, my question is...do I go Night Widow or Fortunata? It seems that most stick to the Widow side and they seem to have higher survivability (which I love), but I wanted to get some opinions from both sides on what makes the toons fun.
As a side note, if I decide to take my Widow hero side after level 20, how does that affect my ability to pick the patron pool powers?