XP Smoothing and levels 32-50

I posted a little announcement about the Going Rogue sale on a gaming site I frequent. I got some interesting feedback from some non-CoH players.

In particular, one of the long time posters there talked about how he didn't like CoH's leveling progression. Since XP smoothing was mentioned specifically in the last dev interview over at Massively, I thought some of you folks might be want to debate the leveling progressing here, as a way of providing feedback to the devs.

This was the comment that I found most telling:

I do have to agree with the general sentiment that there isn't always a lot of progress from 32-50. It depends on the build, but for several of my characters, once they hit 32, there's not much left for them to get other than situational utility stuff (crashing nukes, crashing godmodes, epic power pools.) On some characters, this point is more like level 26. On the other hand, some of my characters have kept getting important powers right up to 49... but I've definitely had a character or twelve stall in the thirties or early forties after picking up everything I consider important.

I disagree.

Often the 32-50 feels like you get more powerful, because you can now enhance your powers more with the added extra slots. Not sure what he plays to have maxed out his powers before then tbh. And at 40+ you gain access to the epic pools, which for many characters add utility.


Besides, they've already done a pass to smooth out the xp curve, twice from what i can recall. And i'm pretty sure people would find the game more boring if it took longer to get to 20+, because at that range you gain most of your powers.

If you use invention set enhancements then that statement is absolutely not true. I start enhancing my characters around level 30 and I can tell you that I have nowhere near enough slots at level 32 to have a nicely enhanced build. It isn't until above level 40 that my build starts to feel near complete.

My level 50 characters are a GREAT deal more powerful than my level 32 characters.

I'd also like some comment on the statement "the content is just the same four missions over and over again."

If you read the thread I linked to, I basically agreed with him. I said "I don't think I've done anything but casual PUGs and TFs since level 30." That wasn't meant to agree with him, I was trying to say the game is easily playable by casual players. But in retrospect one of the reasons WHY I don't do most of the level 30+ content is because it's pretty banal. (Note: I also play red side mostly. I haven't tried most 30+ content blue side.)

I do think we also need to differentiate leveling from IOs. For me, IOs don't add a lot until AFTER I get to level 50 and start slotting. (Some IOs are useful at lower levels, but I find myself waiting until 50 for many of the IO sets so I can get the best bonus.)

Yes, my level 50 Fortunata is a LOT more powerful that she was at level 30. But that's after IOing her out at 50. The actual process of leveling form 30 to 50 was pretty much just busy work, it didn't by itself add much to the character.

In contrast, my level 50 Mastermind is not a lot more powerful than she was at level 32, even after considering the IOs I added (which admittedly is not a ton).

In years past, I would have had to agree. With the introduction of New TF/SF's, Tip missions, and side switching, I would have to disagree.

"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho

If that assertion were true, level 20-30 wouldn't be where I crank foes levels combat levels +1 over my own, and level 30-35+ to +2. (This is on top of the extra +1 we find naturally in missions.)

It varies somewhat with powerset - some have slots to burn, while others never have enough - but generally I'm glad for the extra slots in the 32-50 stretch. Up until that point I'm usually gaining new powers faster than I can slot old ones to my satisfaction - I'll have the basic function of the power capped, sure, but I won't usually have added the extra recharge, endurance reduction, etc, that I'd like. e.g. for melee characters that attack power at 26 comes at a point where I'm wanting to round out the 1-20 attacks I took, but I have to delay that because I don't want to underslot the new shiny.

So yeah, I appreciate the shift from powers to slots after 32, it lets me either further enhance my strongest powers, or bring up the weaker powers to useful levels, along with adding procs and uniques where applicable.

But as I say, it varies somewhat from powerset to powerset - the above doesn't apply so much if it's an early blooming powerset that doesn't take too much slotting; in that scenario I can see those last 20 levels starting to feel like a drawn out slog. On the other hand my Crab Spider valued those levels just as much as the ones where he was gaining new powers frequently, because he was rounding out his build and improving his performance all the way to 50.

I disagree. Starting at Level 30, you gain fewer powers overall, but the ones you have become much more fleshed out as the number of slots you have dramatically increases.

Slightly less than HALF of all slots on your toon are gained at Level 31+ (1-30 provides 51 slots including inherent/origin/Fitness, 31-50 provides 46 slots)

So yes. You're not busting out tons of new, whiz-bang powers anymore. But what you've already got begins to ramp up in power rather dramatically.

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I actually agree with the general sentiment. Once comment I often see in threads about altitus is that a lot of people have their characters stall out in the late 20s or early 30s and I think this is part of the reason for it.

In the early levels you get a new power every other level but past level 32 you only get a power every 3 levels. Now from a numbers/power gaming point of view this is fine, you get a lot more slots instead which are more useful to you at that point. However unless you actually spend time crunching the numbers they don't really feel like you're getting more powerful.

This is compounded by several other factors. NPC hit points at these levels increase slightly faster than your base damage so you need more attacks to kill them. You need more XP per level which stretches out new powers even more. You tend to spend more time running around the city (especially blue side).

Now, I don't feel that this is something that could reasonably be changed within the context of the game. Changing the XP for those levels doesn't really solve the key problem and changing the levels at which you get new powers would break the rest of the level progression. So overall I think this is something that can't really be changed without CoH2.

Personally, I disagree with the sentiment expressed in the OP. I believe that the primary reason for the stall-out in the 30-40s is the dearth of content added in those ranges.

Right now, we have a logjam of contacts all hitting you in the 20s, many of whom will be outleveled by 30: Issue 17 arcs, Issue 19 arcs, Mercedes Sheldon (for heroes), Cape, Icon, Striga, Croatoa (first half), Faultline (second half), Ouroboros intros, the specific tips for 20-30. You also get access to a number of Task Forces like Moonfire, Hess, Sutter, Kal, respecs trials, Psyche and Citadel. This all makes the 20 go by VERY fast. I have characters that spend a week in the 20s then stall out.

Spread some of that content out. Stop making every new solo arc take place in the 20s. Expand the maximum level range for Psyche, Citadel, Moonfire, Hess, Mercedes', the Issue 17 and 19 arcs, Croatoa and Striga to 40-50.

After reading the thread, I find myself not agreeing with any of the comments made except maybe about the nature of villain content. Personally I think that the main contributor just has very limited experience and an opinion colored by that certain fantasy game. Then there are the statements that are just flat wrong, like:

I mainly play redside (actually it's a pretty even split, but redside feels more homely), and I find that the 14-32 range is where a character really gets into their sets. Particularly levels 22 (SOs), 24 (power), 25 (more room for insps), 26 (power), 27 (more SOs) and 28 are just awesome.
Then it slows down a bit. 30 is a'ight, 32 is either really cool or really lame depending on sets, but it's also fresh SOs again. Then the Levels of the Many Slots come. I use to find these lame (it's not powerrrrrrrs), but now I find them more on the "incredibly useful" side. Then tier 8 and 9 from secondary and then epics and it's all pretty cool to me on the power side. The diversification is not that harsh (if all else is slotted up satisfyingly, MOAR recharge). More slots in more powers is lovely.

Regarding content... The 30-40 content redside feels a little lackluster. I love the 40+ arcs, though. So, yeah, happy enough. I'll just team a bit more in the 30-40 range to skip through 'em a bit faster.

I don't actually bother with the content blueside. Croatoa is cool, but mostly I'll just run a TF or tag along on a team.


As a side-note, most of my characters "sit still" for a while in their teens/twenties. Not quite over that point where they become awesome, not quite down in that area where levels just come raining down. 35+? Usually a pretty smooth ride to 50 if I don't lose interest (and no, not running endless ITFs; it's just a point where the characters typically gets really fun to me and therefore I play them more).

Between level 30 and 50 I happen to like the leveling curve. I get more slots for my powers that are probably desperately in need of them by this point. My power level starts increasing dramatically.

And, lets be honest, how many powers can we realistically have on a build that will all get USED? If you kept getting new powers every other level all the way to 50, you'd reach a point in the late 30s where you would start having more powers than you can actually ever make any use of.

For most characters, about 20 powers is what realistically get used on a regular basis. If you were to crank that up so you get 25 or 26 powers, you'd have way more powers than you will probably use, and not enough slots to spread between them.

Look at the problem tri-form Kheldians have, they have 8-9 more powers more than any other AT that all need slots to be effective. You literally cannot put all the slots you want into all the powers you want them in, something will always get shortchanged.

If you gave every AT that same problem, it would probably annoy quite a few people.

I disagree with everything that guy said, and at the same time I understand where he's coming from.

This game could use more documentation. No, scratch that - go straight to hand-holding if you want to appeal to more players.

For better or worse (worse IMHO, but that's what sells), hand-holding is a standard in the gaming industry nowadays. If you're used to games telling you to Press E to open door with a big red prompt, how do you understand there's other things than repeating the ITF or AE/newspaper arcs over and over? How do you get the difference set bonuses can make, or even a few slots that aren't "Damage" in a key power?

I consistently see people who stay in Atlas AE 1-50 and move on to the same 2 trials nonstop once they hit 50. Many players simply don't have that much initiative when it comes to their gaming, and in a MMO will follow the lead of other people. Expecting people to go talk to a contact by themselves is already asking for too much, in my opinion. I don't think adding more content would help in that regard, you just want to direct people to the existing content they don't even know of.

Rereading the thread, it really strikes me that the guy's of the opinion that it's "Add an Acc and three Damage and you're done" on powers.

Honestly, it sounds more like he's someone who quit about the time ED dropped. His understanding of the IO system, and auxiliary effects, procs, and the like is woefully lacking.

And his casual dismissal of the "rounding out" process that happens post-30 just rings false.

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