Do agree in that i hate it when only 1 team gets to deal with the adds but USUALLY they get at least 1/2 players from each team over to the adds so its evenly spread out.
Of the BAFS i have done lately what we've done is as followed.
Team 1: Nightstar
Team 1: Bottom two of team 1 go to adds
Team 2: Top 3 go to nightstar, bottom 3 go to siege, 2 left go to adds.
Team 3: Siege
Team 3: Bottom 2 go to adds.
Of course if the team leader wants to chose differently who goes where for their team then thats fair but seems to have worked so far.
Personally i dont like the tennis courts tactics [seen it used on defiant too] and much prefer the current MO runs we do all the time, all it needs is a slight tweak to make it perfect for all imo.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Yep that's the way it's done on triumph as well. You only need to change things when doing the keep them separated badge.
Gotta say having just done two, my iXP was terrible like this. 9% first run, 13% second run. That'll mean about 10 runs to get my judgement unlocked - on the previous tactics it was 5 runs to get it all done. That was with a balance of being on adds and not being on adds. As there's no-one on the adds this time, there's a lot less ixp going around.
So I'll stick to the old style full on MO runs (every run should be!). This is notably faster so some points there for sure but...
The other disadvantage to add to your list is only 1 Empy every 20 hours for the standard run, the second comes with the MO run.
Also, having just a brief look at the teams in the League, there were a good chunk of names that I'm pretty sure didn't need the iXP so in an adds team situation then they aren't missing out on that.
Finally though it is very nice to see Bafs running again. They seemed to be slacking off. So hopefully this keeps going and maybe we can get a balance of TC and Mo runs going often enough 
| dave | onion | @davejb |
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This being the main point of it all tbh |
Originally Posted by Global_DJB
Finally though it is very nice to see Bafs running again. They seemed to be slacking off. So hopefully this keeps going and maybe we can get a balance of TC and Mo runs going often enough
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What I've been picking up on Union is that BAF's started to bore ppl and Lambdas are sooo much faster to run, a mix of TC and Mo tactics could really liven up BAF Just to add, I'm not at all against doing Mo-runs on occasion (especially since i'll want the badges), but as far as speed, simplicity and i-exp goes i personally prefer the TC
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
a good leader asks who needs ixp, thats what i have found, even making sure they switch people around for the next run, maybe i have just been lucky with raid leaders.
Quote:
It would seem that you have ^^|
Originally Posted by Rock_Powerfist
a good leader asks who needs ixp, thats what i have found, even making sure they switch people around for the next run, maybe i have just been lucky with raid leaders.
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95% of the BAF runs I've joined (rather than lead) on Union has resulted in the leaders team being the only ones allowed on Adds and the other two teams being "balanced" in a way that they HAVE to all be at AV in order to take him/her down at all.
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
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gee i am a lucky booger , and i still get the odd rare or v. rare
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Originally Posted by Brimmy
It would seem that you have ^^
95% of the BAF runs I've joined (rather than lead) on Union has resulted in the leaders team being the only ones allowed on Adds and the other two teams being "balanced" in a way that they HAVE to all be at AV in order to take him/her down at all. |
what you have identified is not a new strategy, thats the same bonkers Tennis Court Strategy that allowed us to get our butts handed to us on test despite the prescence of Dev players.
What needs to be re-established is the leadership style that includes sending a blaster from each AV team to the reinforcement spawn as detailed in the guides of both @ammon and myself. Instead of using aforementioned barmy tennis court malarky, why not just remember to make the mentioned team changes mid trial, it takes what, 4 pm's or a sentence on league chat to do?
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
When I run BAFs I always ensure a nomination from the Siege+Nightstar team for the Incarnate XP - it is only fair after all. Every BAF I have been on otherwise has done so too, you must be a little unlucky in the PuGs Brimmy.
Fury
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It may well be that my luck is running low. I could list like 5-10 names of organizers that cares f-all about sharing i-exp, but the "name and shame" game has never been something i fancy so i shall refrain from such action.|
Originally Posted by Wondering_Fury
When I run BAFs I always ensure a nomination from the Siege+Nightstar team for the Incarnate XP - it is only fair after all. Every BAF I have been on otherwise has done so too, you must be a little unlucky in the PuGs Brimmy.
Fury |
Yesterday (as per usual) the BAF runs seems to come to a complete halt after I stopped my own runs, managed to get on a single run of Lambda the entire evening (not many of those around yesterday either apart from Sals badge-runs). Oh well, it got me the last step to T3 Alpha and levelshift so i guess i can't complain, and I did get like 57% Interface progress from that run alone.
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
Quote:
1. The bonkers tennis court strategy is how I've seen 95% of the runs on Triumph go since day two except for the ones where the league mutually agrees to go for a badge, such as separated. It basically never fails. I've never personally seen a BAF fail at that stage with Nightstar and Siege pulled together. I've only seen BAFs fail during disorganized escape phases and separated runs that go horribly awry.|
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
what you have identified is not a new strategy, thats the same bonkers Tennis Court Strategy that allowed us to get our butts handed to us on test despite the prescence of Dev players.
What needs to be re-established is the leadership style that includes sending a blaster from each AV team to the reinforcement spawn as detailed in the guides of both @ammon and myself. Instead of using aforementioned barmy tennis court malarky, why not just remember to make the mentioned team changes mid trial, it takes what, 4 pm's or a sentence on league chat to do? |
Actually, I've seen leagues also pull both AVs basically right onto the reinforcement spawn point on the helipad, which also works.
2. The triple team option grants most of the iXP to the players on adds, which creates friction in some leagues. Shifting players from one team to another team doesn't solve the problem, because iXP is tracked in large part by *personal* damage delivered. Meaning: if you send someone from the Siege team to help with the adds team, that one player will get a lot more iXP, but the rest of the Siege team will get only a tiny additional amount from that shift. I've tested this directly myself. Different people on the same team can get radically different amounts of iXP based on which one does more AoE damage to more targets: iXP is not evenly shared. Unless they changed this with a very recent patch, it was like this from release until the beginning of May.
Of course, *if* your league is strong enough to get both separated and strong and pretty its better to go after those and basically ignore any iXP balancing problems, because each Astral Merit you can earn above the baseline for BAF is essentially worth in conversion 13.3% iXP for Interface and Judgment, and 8.9% for Destiny and Lore. Getting both and just a small amount of iXP is about the same or better as getting a really good iXP run without those two astral merits, and the astral merits are better for everyone that already has all their slots unlocked.
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Quote:
One simple answer, people don't listen. I won't do this when I run any Bafs for that simple reason. I will, as best I can, place people who need iXP onto the adds team (and will never put myself there when I'm leading) but the mixing up of teams just causes more hassle than it's worth.|
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
why not just remember to make the mentioned team changes mid trial, it takes what, 4 pm's or a sentence on league chat to do?
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Now okay, this may be better now with most folks use to the trials but even during Brimmy's runs yesterday when we were pulling to the tennis courts, people were off fighting the AVs at their spawn or engaging before the AVs were in place.
Another simple answer, and again this may have been more when the trials were new, it caused a headache for me. Having each team in one spot makes it much easier for me as a league leader to know where they are, if one AV is miles ahead of the other then I can look at the team list and quickly see that maybe NS has a blaster that I can just pull over to Siege for some catchup damage. Sending that tell to then remember they are on adds or they have decided to go to adds means that not only have I not reduced the damage on the speedy NS but I've perhaps left the adds too low.
So I balance the teams beforehand and try to always ask who needs ixp and make sure they get onto the adds team (or rotate that team around if there are too many). Doesn't always work out, I know I have left people who need iXP out more than they would have liked at the time but I'm always clear beforehand that it's a MO Run and I'll be pasting my wall of text in for new people.
| dave | onion | @davejb |
Quote:
Do you want to pick a specific time in the evening and get them going? I'd be on for running/helping/participating in a daily run or three to at least get them up and going again. I reckon I've at least 3 friends who I can count on to join then too.|
Originally Posted by Brimmy
Yesterday (as per usual) the BAF runs seems to come to a complete halt after I stopped my own runs
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I'm sure that the motd in various chans can carry a notice about it. Or if there isn't enough interest for daily, we could go weekly like CoP/MSR or maybe Thur & Sun or the like.
| dave | onion | @davejb |
Quote:
I've actually been thinking in those lines, maybe do something like Sals lambda badge-runs, but being a uni-student and all it's hard for me to nail down a specific time every day/week since my "busy time" goes up and down like a rollercoaster :P
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Originally Posted by Global_DJB
Do you want to pick a specific time in the evening and get them going? I'd be on for running/helping/participating in a daily run or three to at least get them up and going again. I reckon I've at least 3 friends who I can count on to join then too.
I'm sure that the motd in various chans can carry a notice about it. Or if there isn't enough interest for daily, we could go weekly like CoP/MSR or maybe Thur & Sun or the like. |
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
Anytime i see a BAF running and im free i do try and join one, however my attention span [could it be called that?] is such a degree that i cant do anything that requires a lengthy amount of time or multiple runs of trials [the 3 trials i did with you yesterday took a LOT of effort from me really].
After running both now on union heres my opinion.
MO Run: Better for drops [more rare recipes!] + ixp imo if the leader coordinates correctly.
TC Run: Better for a quick finish [half the time i think] if you want merits/super inspirations.
So i'll be joining both depending on which at the time i require/want
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
#1/#2
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Skipping to your point of #1/2, that is how I run my BAFs on Union - however I specifically arrange the teams so that when I nominate a player from each AV team for the adds I have provided for said player so the teams are mutually considered for having 7 men on the AV.
It is incredibly rare in a BAF that I have partaken in, including not led, within Union that we do not use the seperate AV tactic since maximum return runs on BAF are considerably without difficulty nowadays.
In my opinion there are much better ways of obtaining I-XP than relying on the BAF runs for it, especially since it is exclusive to the left tree. I simply take my threads/Astrals/Empyreans to I-XP after a few runs of Lambda that have got me to the Uncommon/Rare Tier - effectively any threads from that point on are pointless as my Tier is not yet unlocked.
EDIT: I will be out of play for a few days but I can arrange a couple of runs including yourself Brimmy.
Fury
Quote:
Adversely I've only seen runs fail through letting prisoners escape and have never had a fail on a seperated run as the key was supression of the reinforcements. Each server is a little different due to population and players, but given the choice I'll take the extra merits for each and every run thanks |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
1. The bonkers tennis court strategy is how I've seen 95% of the runs on Triumph go since day two except for the ones where the league mutually agrees to go for a badge, such as separated. It basically never fails. I've never personally seen a BAF fail at that stage with Nightstar and Siege pulled together. I've only seen BAFs fail during disorganized escape phases and separated runs that go horribly awry.
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In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
Do agree in that i hate it when only 1 team gets to deal with the adds but USUALLY they get at least 1/2 players from each team over to the adds so its evenly spread out.
Of the BAFS i have done lately what we've done is as followed. Team 1: Nightstar Team 1: Bottom two of team 1 go to adds Team 2: Top 3 go to nightstar, bottom 3 go to siege, 2 left go to adds. Team 3: Siege Team 3: Bottom 2 go to adds. Of course if the team leader wants to chose differently who goes where for their team then thats fair but seems to have worked so far. Personally i dont like the tennis courts tactics [seen it used on defiant too] and much prefer the current MO runs we do all the time, all it needs is a slight tweak to make it perfect for all imo. |
BAFs that I lead most often use the same tactic. Whether it's a Mo run or regular tennis court run. I assign the last two of very team to bunker at the north spawning point and take out the ambushes as they spawn. That way everyone gets the iXP for them, and you occasionally get the merit for "Strong and Pretty" as well. Of course, I try to balance the teams when the trial first starts so this doesn't hinder any of the teams.
EDIT:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, I've seen leagues also pull both AVs basically right onto the reinforcement spawn point on the helipad, which also works.
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Of course, the obvious solution is to disable to turret. But that means losing the Astral merit from that badge.
It's a win some, lose some situation I suppose.
But all in all, the biggest problem with any strategy, is how people plain ignore directions given. Which is the prime reason I have given up on trials long ago and only rarely run them now.
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
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I haven't seen a league on Union use the tennis court tactic at the BAF, Nightstar and Siege are usually being dealt with where they are.
Maybe it's me, but why changing the tactic when the classic one works just fine?
Getting the 'Master of' - Badge is still possible with that one.
Indeed. I favour the current strategy. Plenty of astral merits and as long as each team sends a blaster to the adds team, then hey it works allright.
I'm actually pleased that the Master of Baf can be made through one session.
... The Mo Lambda on the other hand 
3 Times is just... grrr (specially if you make it once, when you have defeated Marauder without using acid nor granades. (But got to to it two times more)
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Just to test the waters I ran a BAF tonight (I was initially going to just observe but I was volunteered to lead) and using the switch-out of a few blasters between positions everyone got a healthy chunk of IXP and we had a few people get MO tonight.
Sadly we missed ONE escapee though, but the strategy is sound in the opinion of all that took part.
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
Right, so the BAF runs on Union seems to have fallen into near non-existance now..
I wanna start by saying that i am NOT surprised, given the tactics that have been applied (or rather how oraganizers have chosen to apply it).
Doing full 24man runs is quite fine, wanting all the badges is also quite fine, but only letting 1 team deal with Adds and have monopoly of the i-exp? not cool folks...
So, after some time over on Freedom, here's the FAIR and quite simple "Tennis Court" tactics (works for 16man leagues and up).
Stage 1, Defeat 40 enemies:
Nothing changes here, smash their roboty heads in
Stage 2, Nightstar fight:
EVERYONE gathers at the tennis courts (inbetween the chokepoints mid-map), a sturdy tank/brute (or a scrapper if he/she can manage) pulls Nightstar to the tennis court and she is engaged as near the middle of the courts as possible.
Stage 3, Escapee's:
Regular Choke-Point tactics apply. If it's a 16man run S-team will probably need 1 or 2 members of the N-team to help out (leaders shall balance as necessary).
Stage 4, Siege fight:
Again everyone gathers at the tennis courts, this time -behind- Nightstars body!
Siege is then pulled to the tennis courts and engaged as close to dead-NS as possible.
Stage 5, Double-AV fight:
Here's the good part about this tactics, once Siege is defeated both him and Nighstar will rez, at the same place (just where you left them), meaning everyone gets to fight both AV's AND the adds as they come along.
16man league: Each team beats on one specific AV, use of AoE's will make sure that both AV's will give i-exp to both teams. Targets will be switched as the fight goes along to keep their HP bars nice and even.
24man league: 1 team on Siege, 1 team on Nightstar, 1 team on 'balance'. Otherwise same rules apply as above.
Stage 6? You win :P
Advantages with this tactics:
*Everyone gets i-exp
*Everyone gets drops
*Easier to make sure both AV's die at the same time
*Allows for 16man runs meaning less lag
*The healers (however few there might be) will be aiding the entire league not only 1 team.
*No need to split the debuffers between AV-teams when they're both at the same place.
Disadvantages:
*You "only" get 5 Astrals instead of 6, big deal? :P
I really hope to be seeing this tactics take off on Union, i'm sure it will make more people want BAF runs if they're actually fair when it comes to i-exp and drops. I for one will be organizing this type of runs from now on.
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers