It is a bit unfair but yea, if a mob has even 1 endurance, they can use a power that costs more. So the only true way to shut them down is to not on sap them but to shut off their recovery as well.
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This is often an issue with older enemy groups - Most older enemies have few attacks, and what they do have costs so little that unless you KEEP them at 0, one tick of recovery gives them enough to initiate an attack. So generally, draining them isn't enough, you need to apply enough -Recovery to keep them there too.|
Originally Posted by Hube02
Maybe this has been asked before, couldn't find anything.
I'm playing my first character that has powers that sap an enemies endurance. Electric/Electric. When my endurance hits zero all my shields go down, I can't attack, and I die relatively quickly. When I sap an enemies endurance down to zero, or what looks like zero to me, they continue to attack and they are still just as hard to hit. Funny how some minion can keep attacking me with no endurance but my "Super Hero" cannot and dies in two hits when I loose my all defense because of it? Am I wrong? Do they really still have endurance when I think they have none? If not, and they really can keep hitting and are still hard to hit with no endurance, then can someone explain to me what use endurance sapping powers? Other than the small chance it with transfer a tiny portion of that endurance to me? |
To see what I mean about older groups, take a 50 into perez park, and aggrivate a bunch of clockwork minions. watch their endurance bars. they have one or two attacks that they cycle through, and their bars will barely move. Take that same 50 to praetoria and get a few of their clockwork minions to fight you. Some Praetorian Clockwork models can drain themselves just by shooting for long enough. And even while they can still get off regular attacks from ticks of recovery - it tends to slow their damage output considerably.
If nothing else draining them is good for a few things even against older enemies; Shutting down those blasted -acc/tohit auras BP/tsoo lts have.
"My inner mind has become a reality-cracking overgod. He torments me! Help!"
Please don't remove a question when it's been answered. Others might wonder the same thing, and just seeing "Removed" or "Deleted" doesn't help anyone.
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Sorry, I reloaded and there were no answers, you guys must have been in the process of answering. I was just a little po'd at a minion with no endurance that took me out and I thought I would get different types of answers... Sorry again. Thankfully, someone quoted me and I'll put it back |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Please don't remove a question when it's been answered. Others might wonder the same thing, and just seeing "Removed" or "Deleted" doesn't help anyone.
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A do appreciate the input. At least I know it isn't just me that sees it.
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I find that sapping works very well as damage mitigation on my Elec scrapper, even without recovery debuff. While drained enemies will still be attacking, they'll generally be using much less damaging attacks.
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Originally Posted by Hube02
When I sap an enemies endurance down to zero, or what looks like zero to me, they continue to attack and they are still just as hard to hit.
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Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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For Paragon Protectors, I find that draining their endurance to zero (i.e., as close as you can) prevents them from going Unstoppable, which makes any missions involving Crey to go much faster. The trick is to get their endurance down *before* they take a lot of hit points, otherwise they'll go Unstoppable and take longer for your team to bring down.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I find that sapping works very well as damage mitigation on my Elec scrapper, even without recovery debuff. While drained enemies will still be attacking, they'll generally be using much less damaging attacks.
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I mainly use Short Circuit to do this endurance drain fast, which I slot for +EndMod, though I find the Energy Manipulator: Chance for Stun is nice as well.
3 slotted Efficacy Adaptor:
+EndMod +Rech3 slotted Energy Manipulator:
+EndMod +Rech +ACC
+EndMod +ACC
+EndMod +RechWith the above slotting, I get the following stats:
+EndMod
Chance for Stun
End Cost = 15.6
Accuracy = 1.82x
Recharge Time = 13.32s
5 ticks of 15 energy damage over 4s
-66% endurance on target
41.6 energy damage against electronic targets only (great for Clockwork)
-189% recovery rate for 10s on target
+5% strength to all damage for 10s on self
Taxibot, I too slot for stun in Short Circuit, and also in Ball Lightning. Stunned foes are just as harmless as fully drained ones.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
The problem:
IMO, the problem with endurance sapping is with the inherent way endurance recovers.
Endurance is a stat that recovers in increments of 5%, with endurance recovery just decresing the time between the 'ticks'.
The 'brawl' power that most enemies have costs ~4.7 endurance, and a simple tick of recovery is going to restore at least 5 endurance, so most enemies really do need to be kept at 0.
Even worse, unlike players, any enemy above minion rank has more endurance.
Minion - 100
Lieutenant - 140
Boss - 200
Elite Boss and above - 800
Due to the way recovery works as stated above, this means a single tick will restore a boss to 10 endurance, which even for players, is enough to get off some strong attacks.
As far as EB and above..well, very few ablities cost more than 40 endurance. 
My personal solution:
Allow -recovery to reduce the 'ticks' by the % it drains.
IE, 50% -recovery would make endurance recover at 2.5% per tick instead of 5%.
This would make it so that enemies would actually be drained enough that they would need more than 1 tick to attack 
Even a mighty 800 endurance enemy would be reduced to a measly 4 endurance per tick at 90% -recovery(though admitably getting an AV/GM to -90% would be a challenge with their high recovery resistance, but you get the idea)
Edit:
Side note, health regen works the same way, but damage is plentiful enough that -regen doesnt need much help. And once an enemy is reduced to 0 health, no amount of regen matters.
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Sometims it just takes a little while to get a response.
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Originally Posted by Hube02
Sorry, I reloaded and there were no answers, you guys must have been in the process of answering. I was just a little po'd at a minion with no endurance that took me out and I thought I would get different types of answers... Sorry again. Thankfully, someone quoted me and I'll put it back
A do appreciate the input. At least I know it isn't just me that sees it. |
Enjoy your day please.
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For a minute I was going to say.... don't forget that whatever they make apply to the other side they'd apply to us as well.... but then I remembered that not everything that gets applied to us applies to the other side.|
Originally Posted by Tylerst
My personal solution: ...
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For example, the 3 minute suicide button. I think all of the power sets have one. You click it and in 3 minutes your heath and/or endurance drops to zero or near zero with the possibly of not being able to regain one or the other for some time. I don't think I've seen this effect on any enemy I've fought.
Actually, if they applied something like that to the other side it would likely be applied in a modified, more brutal fashion to players.
This was why I originally deleted my question after posting it in a rather heated moment and only put it back up after getting an answer I didn't think I got. I was only venting because I know the other side does not play by the same rules we do and it got me a bit frustrated because of a particular situation.
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In this case it would problably work both ways, but we have access to inspirations to refill endurance, endurance reduction enhancements, and a ZERO endurance cost brawl, enemies don't. |
Originally Posted by Hube02
For a minute I was going to say.... don't forget that whatever they make apply to the other side they'd apply to us as well.... but then I remembered that not everything that gets applied to us applies to the other side.
For example, the 3 minute suicide button. I think all of the power sets have one. You click it and in 3 minutes your heath and/or endurance drops to zero or near zero with the possibly of not being able to regain one or the other for some time. I don't think I've seen this effect on any enemy I've fought. Actually, if they applied something like that to the other side it would likely be applied in a modified, more brutal fashion to players. This was why I originally deleted my question after posting it in a rather heated moment and only put it back up after getting an answer I didn't think I got. I was only venting because I know the other side does not play by the same rules we do and it got me a bit frustrated because of a particular situation. |
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I find that sapping works very well as damage mitigation on my Elec scrapper, even without recovery debuff. While drained enemies will still be attacking, they'll generally be using much less damaging attacks.
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They'll also be attacking somewhat less frequently, because when they are drained they can only attack as fast as their recovery ticks will allow.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Maybe this has been asked before, couldn't find anything.
I'm playing my first character that has powers that sap an enemies endurance. Electric/Electric.
When my endurance hits zero all my shields go down, I can't attack, and I die relatively quickly.
When I sap an enemies endurance down to zero, or what looks like zero to me, they continue to attack and they are still just as hard to hit.
Funny how some minion can keep attacking me with no endurance but my "Super Hero" cannot and dies in two hits when I loose my all defense because of it?
Am I wrong? Do they really still have endurance when I think they have none?
If not, and they really can keep hitting and are still hard to hit with no endurance, then can someone explain to me what use endurance sapping powers? Other than the small chance it with transfer a tiny portion of that endurance to me?