Can anyone explain regen debuff numbers, and the value of being able to debuff it?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-23 22:56 in Player Questions
As seen here - http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Archvillain_Resistance - level 54 AVs will resist 87% of a -Regen Debuff.
So in the case of a -500% -Regen Debuff (is that a double negative? You know what I mean) that means that they will be debuffed by roughly 65% -Regen, for 35% of their total usual regen.
A level 54 AV has 30,677 HP (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Archvillain), of which they regenerate 5% (1,534 HP rounded up) every 15 seconds(102 HP/second, rounded down) (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Health_Regeneration). That means when they are debuffed with that 500% Regen Debuff, after it is resisted, they will be regenerating roughly 537 HP every 15 seconds or roughly 36 HP/second. This makes defeating them much, much easier.
In the case of the 1000% -Regen Debuffs you are looking at 130% regeneration debuff after the resistance which totally floors the regeneration. This is just one reason why Traps is a fun set.
Quote:
Just a point to mention for you... I too hate being mezzed! My main is an Illusion/Radiation controller that used to have perma Indomitable Will for mez protection... I swapped out of it for the primal forces pool and now I have perma mez protection from the incarnate tier 3 Clarion buff |
Originally Posted by Ledneh_
The numbers for some of the debuffs in this game can be a bit obtuse, but for me regen debuffs take the cake. Just what does -500% mean? -1000%? If I take a minion and hit him with a -100%, does he stop regenerating health completely? A boss? An EB/AV?
The main reason I ask is because I was on three lambdas today where we didn't have a single player with any -regen powers. It seemed like it took a LONG time to get Marauder down all three times, though it's tough to tell if that was due to lack of -regen or simply low outgoing damage. So I rolled a Fire/Rad corruptor in a reactionary fit (I normally only play Scrappers and the like, I can't stand getting mezzed), and I want to know how much it's going to help. Thanks! |
You may want to consider that for your Corruptor once you get to 50!
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Against an even level enemy with 0% regen resistance and no regen buffs, yes a 100% regen debuff would reduce his/her/it's health regeneration to nothing.|
Originally Posted by Ledneh_
The numbers for some of the debuffs in this game can be a bit obtuse, but for me regen debuffs take the cake. Just what does -500% mean? -1000%? If I take a minion and hit him with a -100%, does he stop regenerating health completely? A boss? An EB/AV?
The main reason I ask is because I was on three lambdas today where we didn't have a single player with any -regen powers. It seemed like it took a LONG time to get Marauder down all three times, though it's tough to tell if that was due to lack of -regen or simply low outgoing damage. Thanks! |
Against hard targets like AVs and GMs however, they have very high regen resistance(as noted above). Thus, to reduce them to 0 regeneration requires much more
For example, against a level 50 archvillain(85% regen resistance base), using a level 50 character, you would need ~667% -regen to reduce them to 0.
Any enemies with regen buffs would also need higher regen debuffs.
Keep in mind that the Purple Patch also affects regen debuffs.
Meaning, against a level 54 AV(87% base regen resistance), using a level 50 character(48% power effectiveness vs a +4) would require ~1603% -regen to debuff to 0.
Which is equivalent to 4 Lingering Radiations.
Quote:
| So I rolled a Fire/Rad corruptor in a reactionary fit (I normally only play Scrappers and the like, I can't stand getting mezzed), and I want to know how much it's going to help. |
To your other question/comment, for maximum help vs AVs you want -resistance more than -regen, though stacking them is even more goovy
Thus, a cold/sonic defender or sonic/cold corruptor would provide the most debuffing, force multiplying goodness to a team.
With sonic attacks,sleet,heat loss, and benumb, all AVs shall fall before your AWESOME DEBUFFING POWER!!!(TM)(insert maniacal laughter).
This is in a team setting of course, where you have teammates for damage to make use of your ADP!!!(TM)
Not that Fire/Rad isn't awesome in and of itself though, so don't worry if you'd rather stay with what you have, I'm simply giving you why and how for best helping against hard targets.
Edit: That post was far longer than I wanted it to be, but I hope it was helpful
Cool, thanks a lot for all the great info. I may try a Sonic/Cold later on, my Fire/Rad isn't all that far along anyway.
One further unrelated question about the purple patch, are those effectiveness ratios based purely on level, or con? In other words, if I were level 50 going against a level 50 boss, would my powers still be 100% effective, or would they be reduced as though he were 52?
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It's just level. The higher con colors for bosses/lts are there as a visual warning, they do not have any baring on purple patch.
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Originally Posted by Ledneh_
One further unrelated question about the purple patch, are those effectiveness ratios based purely on level, or con? In other words, if I were level 50 going against a level 50 boss, would my powers still be 100% effective, or would they be reduced as though he were 52?
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Quote:
Regeneration modifies how frequently an entity regains health, not how much health is gained. An AV will normally heal 5% of their max HP every 15 seconds; an AVs debuffed by 50% (after resistance) will heal 5% of their max HP every 30 seconds, NOT 2.5% of their max HP every 15 seconds.
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
A level 54 AV has 30,677 HP (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Archvillain), of which they regenerate 5% (1,534 HP rounded up) every 15 seconds(102 HP/second, rounded down) (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Health_Regeneration). That means when they are debuffed with that 500% Regen Debuff, after it is resisted, they will be regenerating roughly 537 HP every 15 seconds or roughly 36 HP/second. This makes defeating them much, much easier.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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It's been a while since I studied fractions, but best i can tell, those 2 are the same thing.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Regeneration modifies how frequently an entity regains health, not how much health is gained. An AV will normally heal 5% of their max HP every 15 seconds; an AVs debuffed by 50% (after resistance) will heal 5% of their max HP every 30 seconds, NOT 2.5% of their max HP every 15 seconds.
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Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
They equal the same over time, but can make a difference.
An AV regains 0.5% of his health every 15 seconds would equal out to an AV regaining 5% of his health in 150 seconds, but if you can kill him in 140 seconds, the latter will be easier to kill because he never regen'ed anything.
You also see this during the BAF, because sometimes you'll have one of the AV's almost dead, and then all of a sudden they have an extra 5% health, because a regen tick just occured.
Ok thanks for explanation. When thought of as a discrete process, that makes more sense rather than the continuous one I had in mind.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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While the two are essentially the same rate of regeneration, the distinction is that if you can finish off the last of an AV's HP after a regen "pulse" within 30 seconds, the AV won't get an extra "pulse" of HP.|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
It's been a while since I studied fractions, but best i can tell, those 2 are the same thing.
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EG - suppose a level 54 AV has 2000 hp immediately following a regeneration pulse, and you're damaging said AV at a rate of about 70 HP/second. If the AV regenerated 2.5% after 15 seconds, it would look like this:
0s - 2000hp
15s - inflict 1050hp damage
15s - AV regenerates 766.9hp
15s - AV hp at 1716.9hp
30s - inflict another 1050hp damage
30s - AV regenerates 766.9hp
30s - AV hp at 1433.8hp
45s - inflict another 1050hp damage
45s - AV regenerates 766.9hp
45s - AV hp at 1150.7hp
60s - inflict another 1050hp damage
60s - AV regenerates 766.9hp
60s - AV hp at 867.6hp
73s - inflict 910 damage
73s - AV defeated
Whereas, with the regenerate every 30s, the way the game works:
0s - 2000hp
29s - inflict 2030 damage
29s - AV defeated
That's a 44 second difference in the time required to defeat the AV, from one method to another. Granted, the more damage you're already inflicting, the less significant the difference between the two would be. The main distinction is that it's easier to solo an AV (or defeat it with a small team) by delaying the regeneration cycles than it is by reducing the amount regenerated.
EDIT: Redundant now, oh well.
Quote:
Same ultimate value, yes, same effect, no.
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
It's been a while since I studied fractions, but best i can tell, those 2 are the same thing.
|
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The numbers for some of the debuffs in this game can be a bit obtuse, but for me regen debuffs take the cake. Just what does -500% mean? -1000%? If I take a minion and hit him with a -100%, does he stop regenerating health completely? A boss? An EB/AV?
The main reason I ask is because I was on three lambdas today where we didn't have a single player with any -regen powers. It seemed like it took a LONG time to get Marauder down all three times, though it's tough to tell if that was due to lack of -regen or simply low outgoing damage. So I rolled a Fire/Rad corruptor in a reactionary fit (I normally only play Scrappers and the like, I can't stand getting mezzed), and I want to know how much it's going to help.
Thanks!