Cardiac and damage resistance


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I could have been clearer when I used the 5% example as the top but that is to a specific type of resistance. Whereas Cardiac gives it to anything you currently have a power for. Making it almost global if you have the right AT and power choices. And in some cases, like Invulnerabliity, it can be far more than 2% for S/L resist.

The only global resitance bonus I know of is the PvP unique. All the rest are 1 or 2 types at most. Far inferior to what cardiac offers.


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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Posted

Fire Armor "Tank" build running Fire Shield, Plasma Shield, and Tough, Combat Jumping, Blazing aura and Acrobatics:

Without Cardiac at all:

Resist Scores:
Smashing and Lethal: 70.20%
Fire: 90.00% (Capped)
Cold: 27.60%
Energy and Negative: 46.80%

Endurance consumption: 1.49 end/second
Recovery: 3.03 end/second
Net Gain: 1.54 end/second

With Cardiac Partial Radial Revamp (Rare tier):

Resist Scores:
Smashing and Lethal: 75.38% (Above build takes 21.03% more damage)
Fire: 90.00% (Capped) (Above build is the same)
Cold: 30.75% (Above Build takes 4.54% more damage)
Energy and Negative: 50.25% (Above Build takes 6.93% more damage)

Endurance consumption: 1.15 end/second (Above build spends 29.56% more)
Recovery: 3.03 end/second (Same as above)
Net Gain: 1.88 end/second (Above build only nets 81.91% as much)

Now, the character hasn't transformed into an invulnerable juggernaut, but as you can see, he takes a signifigantly smaller chunk of physical damage, and has a fair bit more endurance to toss around. He lasts longer, stronger, and stays in the fight in situations where before he may have had to withdraw. Coupled with his heal (which is ALSO now cheaper, and grants more toxic res), the gain in survivability is small, but far from meaningless.

Now the problem is, as you can see in my above example: The further you are from the resist caps, the less valuable these added points will be. In the case of invulnerability's exotic resists, going from 20% or so to 23% or so doesn't chop off that much, proportionally speaking, of the remaining incoming damage. If you were going from 87 to 90, those 3 points would be a lot more signifigant.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch View Post

This incarnate stuff is supposed to put you on par with the likes of Statesman, and other signature heroes (or villains). Yet you read it, and you go through goodness knows how many task forces, and trials or whatever to get your incarnate alpha unlocked and beef up, and all you get out of it is a poxy couple of per cent of a boost?
We also only have half of it right now.

You didn't really expect to be as powerful as the game lore Incarnates with only half the slots open, didja?

Besides, the higher the tier, the more benefit of it ignores ED. The tier 2 has 1/3rd of the bonus ignoring it, tier 3 has half ignoring it, and tier 4 has 2/3rds ignoring it.

The way resistance enhancement works, that will net you an extra 14% or so of enhancement, which will add an amount of resistance depending on the base resistance of the power in question (which is different for various ATs, tanks have higher bases)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeto_K View Post
Now the problem is, as you can see in my above example: The further you are from the resist caps, the less valuable these added points will be. In the case of invulnerability's exotic resists, going from 20% or so to 23% or so doesn't chop off that much, proportionally speaking, of the remaining incoming damage. If you were going from 87 to 90, those 3 points would be a lot more signifigant.
I see that point often made in the context of discussions about defenses and incoming damage, and I'm just not sure I've ever bought it. Proportionately, yes, 3% more resists stop a bigger piece of incoming damage when added to an already-high resistance relative to a low value. But the actual amount of damage stopped, as measured in HPs, is the same either way.

Put another way using a different example, softcapped Invuln is so well-loved because the amount of damage you actually take gets reduced down to a pinprick. But you are then told that if you only get yourself to 40% def, "You'll take twice as much damage." What I've found in my experience is, if I can withstand one pinprick, much more often than not, I can withstand two just fine.

Later on,
Gate


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch View Post
Well that sucks.
It did succeed in bringing my Smash/Lethal Resist from about 70% to 90% (between RPD, Temp Invulnerability and Tough)


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Posted

Ok so if Im understanding this correctly ladies and gents, if when I unlock it, I can get Cardiac Core Paragon, I'll get 20% resistance to my resistance powers, which factoring in 2/3 ED bybassed, should mean an additional 13 or 14% plus a bit of change, of resistance?

Which would mean with the SO build I got now, my exotic resistances shoudl from 32% to 46% which is a hell of a good hike upwards. (If I got that right)

But lets not forget the endurance reduction accross the board which on an invul / SS would be flipping handy no question I mean, it means you can keep slugging away.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch View Post
Ok so if Im understanding this correctly ladies and gents, if when I unlock it, I can get Cardiac Core Paragon, I'll get 20% resistance to my resistance powers, which factoring in 2/3 ED bybassed, should mean an additional 13 or 14% plus a bit of change, of resistance?

Which would mean with the SO build I got now, my exotic resistances shoudl from 32% to 46% which is a hell of a good hike upwards. (If I got that right)

But lets not forget the endurance reduction accross the board which on an invul / SS would be flipping handy no question I mean, it means you can keep slugging away.
Not quite.

Each of your resist powers will see c. 13-14% more enhancement of their resist values (or more, if for whatever reason said power is under the ED caps). Not a straight addition of that amount to your resists; a huge-ish difference.

-Gate


@Generator
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I had a great time playing with you!

 

Posted

If you're a resistance-based tanker and you're NOT taking Cardiac, you're doing it wrong.

For an invulnerability tanker, Cardiac Core Paragon gives you:

+1.333% smash/lethal resist from Resist Physical Damage
+4% smash/lethal resist from Temp Invulnerability
+1.333% fire/cold from Resist Elements
+0.666% smash/lethal resist from Unyielding
+1.333% fire/cold/energy/negative/toxic resist from Unyielding
+1.333% energy/negative resist from Resist Energies
+2% smash/lethal resist from Tough (You did take tough, right?)

That's all bypassing ED, for a grand total of:
+8% smash/lethal resist
+2.666% fire/energy/cold/negative resist
+1.333% toxic resist

This is all in addition to the huge endurance discount you get, and whatever fractional improvements you get from the ED-affected bonuses you'll get as well.


 

Posted

Cardiac is awesome if you are running a character with a lot of toggles (much easier to happen with inherent Stamina) or other end heavy powers, and then also for sets with resists in them. There are analyses out there have how much each percentage of resistance gets you in terms of survivability, but the higher you go, the more significant each percentage helps you. You can find it if you want.

Me, I'm not a huge numbers person, so I'll go with personal experience. My Fiery Aura tanker with Tough going went from the high 60s resists (68 of 69%) to S/L to 74% or so with his uncommon. The difference for him in how much damage he could take on the ITF and LGTF was dramatic. Soloing a group of Romans on the Cimeroran wall used to require use of Healing Flames at least once every mob. After, I hardly touched it.

If you're already at 90% S/L with your Invuln, you can round out your other resists at least with Cardiac. You might also be able to adjust slotting in your other powers to account for the extra resists and pick up something you currently have.

If none of that sounds good, you can try something else out. But Cardiac is pretty awesome.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magentrix View Post
If you're a resistance-based tanker and you're NOT taking Cardiac, you're doing it wrong.

For an invulnerability tanker, Cardiac Core Paragon gives you:

+1.333% smash/lethal resist from Resist Physical Damage
+4% smash/lethal resist from Temp Invulnerability
+1.333% fire/cold from Resist Elements
+0.666% smash/lethal resist from Unyielding
+1.333% fire/cold/energy/negative/toxic resist from Unyielding
+1.333% energy/negative resist from Resist Energies
+2% smash/lethal resist from Tough (You did take tough, right?)

That's all bypassing ED, for a grand total of:
+8% smash/lethal resist
+2.666% fire/energy/cold/negative resist
+1.333% toxic resist

This is all in addition to the huge endurance discount you get, and whatever fractional improvements you get from the ED-affected bonuses you'll get as well.
Yep I took tough.

I just kinda figured the numbers would be bigger is all, which accounted for my earlier scepticism. Also I kinda thought the 20% applied to your overall totals, which made me think that with the 2/3 ED bypassed I could hope for a good bit more than 2.6% resistance to exotic damage types.

True though that most energy attacks have a smashing element to them, and so do ice ones, but some dont and them that don't hurt an invul tanker when they hit but good, or can do.


 

Posted

Its rather nice that you "double dip" when your packing both your normal Resist toggle and Tough with the cardiac Alpha.


Main: Praetor Imperium Elec/SS/Mu

 

Posted

Cardiac on my Sonic Resonance defender made a big difference. I now run 5 toggles while blasting constantly and rarely worry about endurance. When I got the fourth tier version it boosted my resistance buffs from around +54-55% to a little over 60%.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breog View Post
Its rather nice that you "double dip" when your packing both your normal Resist toggle and Tough with the cardiac Alpha.
Or triple or quadruple dip depending on build. As Grey mentioned, a /fire has two toggles in their AT powers plus tough. /Dark has three plus tough.


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
Or triple or quadruple dip depending on build. As Grey mentioned, a /fire has two toggles in their AT powers plus tough. /Dark has three plus tough.
I ment just on S/L. But yeah the more resistance toggles you have the more and more bang you get out of it.

Case in point.. Elec Tanker. My Base Res Numbers are 35% (except for Neg Energy) add in Tough, and dont forget power surge (its very rare power but cardiac does efffect it).

Adds up to lots of things being boosted by the res.

Like 8% S/L and 5%ish to everything else (Neg, Cold, Fire, Psi).

Add on the +3% PVP IO then also Add the T4 Barrier effect


Main: Praetor Imperium Elec/SS/Mu

 

Posted

Cardiac is super fantastic awesome on my Fire/Sonic Corruptor. Had end problems before so I needed Power Sink to keep me going. With Cardiac I was able to not only drop Power Sink but respec into Scorpion Shield so I'm softcapped to s/l to boot. Running more toggles, can spam my AoEs more and have less endurance issues.

Oh, and all of my shields are slightly buffed too. Oh and the cone on Fire Breath is too. Oh and the range on Blaze is too. Hooray for Cardiac!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magentrix View Post
If you're a resistance-based tanker and you're NOT taking Cardiac, you're doing it wrong.

For an invulnerability tanker, Cardiac Core Paragon gives you:
If you are an invulnerability tank and your S\L resistance isn't already capped before Cardiac, you're doing it wrong. RPD, TI, Tough, and Unyielding give you 60% S\L resistance without any enhancements. Enhance that by 50% in each and you are capped. In which case, Cardiac gives you a pittance of exotic resistances that are as likely to keep you alive as Lord Recluse's respect for you as a person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magentrix View Post
This is all in addition to the huge endurance discount you get, and whatever fractional improvements you get from the ED-affected bonuses you'll get as well.
Certainly, argue the end discount, that can be huge. But the +res for a well-built Inv tank is trivial.
It would be significant to a brute or scrapper, however.


 

Posted

The increase in damage resistance for fire, ice, toxic, energy and negative is trivial on an invulnerable tank.

Already my big guy is capped on smashing and lethal, he's hovering around 32% on the afore mentioned 5 exotic types. The thing is though, I kinda get why the resistance on the exotic types is so low on invulnerability, I mean, if it was too good, then, you'd only ever see invulnerable tanks running about wouldn't ya?

Having said that, some fire attacks combine lethal elements too them, which invulnerability can effectively neutralise totally, leaving only the fire to hurt.

Most energy attacks have got smashing in them, which again, Invulnerability can effectively neutralise.

Toxic, negative and most fire attacks though, you just take those pure, and it hurts. Though again you counteract that with Defence and using your body to deflect those harmful negative shots from hitting. So rather than look to make more resistance for the exotics, instead I'd rather use Defence for them, its easier, plus, as he's SS and footstomp pops so fast mostly the bad guys spend more time getting back up than shooting.

Swings and roundabouts peeps!


 

Posted

Honestly, Cardiac is great for its end reduction componant, especially if your running an end heavy build, and odds are your not capped there, or if you are you can readjust your build some, the resist is just gravy. on a resist heavy build say like a electric armor type, you really do have to get the upper lvl cardiacs to get any real benifit from the resist. I don't have an incarnate MM, but I have heard it mentioned, that Cardiac does increase your henches resistance, not sure about that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch View Post
Yep I took tough.

I just kinda figured the numbers would be bigger is all, which accounted for my earlier scepticism. Also I kinda thought the 20% applied to your overall totals, which made me think that with the 2/3 ED bypassed I could hope for a good bit more than 2.6% resistance to exotic damage types.

True though that most energy attacks have a smashing element to them, and so do ice ones, but some dont and them that don't hurt an invul tanker when they hit but good, or can do
Don't be deceived by the small numbers. If that 8% resistance to smashing/lethal pushes you from 82% to 90% resistance, it nearly doubles your effective health vs. smashing/lethal attacks. As you approach the defense and resist caps, your marginal gains from each percentage point of improvement grows.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magentrix View Post
Don't be deceived by the small numbers. If that 8% resistance to smashing/lethal pushes you from 82% to 90% resistance, it nearly doubles your effective health vs. smashing/lethal attacks. As you approach the defense and resist caps, your marginal gains from each percentage point of improvement grows.
True.
And if you are were another build and pushing all of your res powers got you to 80-85% resistance to S\L, Cardiac would be incredible.
But if you are an Inv tanker at 82% S\L res, it would be MUCH easier to get that survivability by simply socketing your res powers.


 

Posted

Or you could under-slot TI and Tough, use Cardiac to hit 90% S/L, and toss those extra couple of slots somewhere else.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNavigator View Post
Or you could under-slot TI and Tough, use Cardiac to hit 90% S/L, and toss those extra couple of slots somewhere else.
This is the really important thing. It is why we have three character builds in fact.


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.