Looking for lore dates and sources!
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-04-20 11:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I will go trawling back through the Wiki and other sources to see how many of these I can find for you, Space.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
Adding a few more events with dates, but no sources, that I would like to be able to source:
1887 - Mysterious bones found near Giza, Egypt. (What is this referring to?)
1940s - The Council splits off from Arachnos.
Late 1940s - The original Arachnos founder, The Weaver, is killed by the Red Widow and Lord Recluse.
(Probably 2003, based on other events) - First sighting of Devouring Earth creatures.
...I forgot what experience means.
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This one (and events leading up to it) is related in issue 7 of the Top Cow comic. Dating is given as "close to twenty years ago" (and Justin Sinclair is depicted as being around six years old). The comic is available for download here.
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Originally Posted by SpaceNut
* Protean attacks Manticore's house and kills both of his parents.
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"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."
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Awesome. It takes a little fidgeting to make everything work, but "late 70s" seems to avoid any drastic conflicts. BAB would be 18 or 19, while Justin is 10ish. (If Justin is only 6 at the time, then BAB is only 14, and a little young to be a working superhero, especially given his build in the comic.) A little more than 20 years ago, but I can understand BAB's memory being hazy.
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Originally Posted by Overconfidence
This one (and events leading up to it) is related in issue 7 of the Top Cow comic. Dating is given as "close to twenty years ago" (and Justin Sinclair is depicted as being around six years old). The comic is available for download here.
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...I forgot what experience means.
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Vincent Ross's arc states that the Leviathan beneath Sharkhead Isle is in fact Merulina, who transformed at some point during the Oranbegan civil war to destroy the Mu. Since Hequat imprisoned it under the island (where it seems to be in a state of forced sleepiness), Merulina hasn't had much to say.
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Originally Posted by SpaceNut
* The goddess Merulina falls silent, leaving the Coralax unguided and confused.
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Of course! How did I not make that connection? I was thinking that it had something to do with the banishing of the god that make up the Banished Pantheon, but it makes total sense that once Hequat imprisons the Leviaithan, that Merulina wouldn't communicate any more.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Vincent Ross's arc states that the Leviathan beneath Sharkhead Isle is in fact Merulina, who transformed at some point during the Oranbegan civil war to destroy the Mu. Since Hequat imprisoned it under the island (where it seems to be in a state of forced sleepiness), Merulina hasn't had much to say.
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...I forgot what experience means.
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I don't know for sure but, something in the back of my mind says this was a teaser for Avalians (spelling is probably incorrect). They were one of the epic ATs Jack had mentioned long ago.|
Originally Posted by SpaceNut
Adding a few more events with dates, but no sources, that I would like to be able to source:
1887 - Mysterious bones found near Giza, Egypt. (What is this referring to?) |
--Rad
/whereami:
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I seem to remember something about that, something in the back of my head going, "...yeah... *squint*". Or it may just be that I'm crazy.
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Originally Posted by Radionuclide
I don't know for sure but, something in the back of my mind says this was a teaser for Avalians (spelling is probably incorrect). They were one of the epic ATs Jack had mentioned long ago.
--Rad |
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Hmm, so it sounds like that bit of lore has essentially been excised from the lore bible...|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
I seem to remember something about that, something in the back of my head going, "...yeah... *squint*". Or it may just be that I'm crazy.
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*shines the Protean symbol*
...I forgot what experience means.
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Not quit, Merulina didn't become the Leviathan, she was killed by an unknown entity and her power was preserved and transferred to the Leviathan. From the Wiki:|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Vincent Ross's arc states that the Leviathan beneath Sharkhead Isle is in fact Merulina, who transformed at some point during the Oranbegan civil war to destroy the Mu. Since Hequat imprisoned it under the island (where it seems to be in a state of forced sleepiness), Merulina hasn't had much to say.
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| You succeeded and discovered the secret behind power through life and death of the goddess Merulina. She was killed by some sort of entity, but her power did not die with her. Instead, it was transferred into the Leviathan, which would explain the strong attachment the Coralax have to it. |
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I think your guess on Giza being the Avilans reference is right (with the old forums gone and one of the other references not working right, we may never know). At first I thought it was a reference to Father Henri (because he finds something in Egypt that points him toward Mount Diablo), but that happened 'hundreds of years ago.'|
Originally Posted by SpaceNut
Adding a few more events with dates, but no sources, that I would like to be able to source:
1887 - Mysterious bones found near Giza, Egypt. (What is this referring to?) 1940s - The Council splits off from Arachnos. Late 1940s - The original Arachnos founder, The Weaver, is killed by the Red Widow and Lord Recluse. (Probably 2003, based on other events) - First sighting of Devouring Earth creatures. |
*wonders if offering brownies to Protean would improve her chances of being allowed access to the official dev internal story wiki*
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
I thought that rather than referring to the avilians it would reference the Blood of the Black Earth? (They were the ones who were supposed to have egyptian connections, no?)
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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Blood of the Black Earth were connected to Egypt. But, I think this was avilians because they were described as birdlike. With that said, I'm still not 100% sure. It's just nagging at the back of my mind. |
Originally Posted by Arilou
I thought that rather than referring to the avilians it would reference the Blood of the Black Earth? (They were the ones who were supposed to have egyptian connections, no?)
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--Rad
/whereami:
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1718 According to the Wiki
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Originally Posted by SpaceNut
* Rogue Islands - Massacre of the Red Hands pirates.
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to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
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My issue with this is that there are two different stories. The first, from the Know Your Adversary page (http://www.cityofheroes.com/game_inf...l_pirates.html) is that the Red Hands are the ghosts of the slaughtered French soldiers.|
Originally Posted by cursedsorcerer
1718 According to the Wiki
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The second, from Ghost Widow's journal (http://www.cityofheroes.com/game_inf..._-_july_7.html), is that the Red Hands were pirates killed by other pirates.
Just trying to figure out some of the quirks in the lore.
...I forgot what experience means.
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According to the Woodsman's description, the Devouring Earth killed him and used his power to take over Woodvale, creating Eden. My first thought was that whenever Eden happened was when the Woodsman was killed, but further investigation suggests otherwise...|
Originally Posted by SpaceNut
Woodsvale is attacked by Devouring Earth creatures. The hero Woodsman is killed.
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One of the Savant plaques states that Synapse rescued people from Woodvale as the Rikti were tearing it apart, which means that Eden didn't happen until after the first Rikti attack in 2002. By this point, we have two potentially-conflicting accounts as to who destroyed Woodvale.
The description of Eden itself states that the Devouring Earth directly responded to urban development, and the Reconnaissance Officer states that it was primarily a fight between Crey and the Devouring Earth.
All well and good, I thought. Maybe the Devouring Earth and Crey were at a stalemate until the Rikti showed up, at which point the Devouring Earth were able to kill Woodsman and take over. But then there's this:
The revelations from Scout during the Numina Task Force suggest that the Devouring Earth took Woodsman a long time ago. Numina states that Scout was active "in the early part of the twentieth century," which implies that he stopped being active since that time. This can be explained by his capture by Nemesis (which did indeed happen a long time ago), but he specifically states that happened while searching for the missing Woodsman. The Woodsman is revealed to have been abducted by the Devouring Earth and, as the Shard of Kalak can testify, reduced to a spiritual essence.
What to take away from this? Perhaps the information is conflicting with itself. If not, then the Woodsman was taken by the Devouring Earth in the early 1900's, but his powers were not used to transform Woodvale into Eden until sometime after the first Rikti attack in 2002.
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That just introduces further confusion. According to what I understand, Hamidon didn't create the Will of the Earth until after the Rikti War, and become The Hamidon not long after that, so presumably the DE didn't exist before the Rikti War.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
According to the Woodsman's description, the Devouring Earth killed him and used his power to take over Woodvale, creating Eden. My first thought was that whenever Eden happened was when the Woodsman was killed, but further investigation suggests otherwise...
One of the Savant plaques states that Synapse rescued people from Woodvale as the Rikti were tearing it apart, which means that Eden didn't happen until after the first Rikti attack in 2002. By this point, we have two potentially-conflicting accounts as to who destroyed Woodvale. The description of Eden itself states that the Devouring Earth directly responded to urban development, and the Reconnaissance Officer states that it was primarily a fight between Crey and the Devouring Earth. All well and good, I thought. Maybe the Devouring Earth and Crey were at a stalemate until the Rikti showed up, at which point the Devouring Earth were able to kill Woodsman and take over. But then there's this: The revelations from Scout during the Numina Task Force suggest that the Devouring Earth took Woodsman a long time ago. Numina states that Scout was active "in the early part of the twentieth century," which implies that he stopped being active since that time. This can be explained by his capture by Nemesis (which did indeed happen a long time ago), but he specifically states that happened while searching for the missing Woodsman. The Woodsman is revealed to have been abducted by the Devouring Earth and, as the Shard of Kalak can testify, reduced to a spiritual essence. What to take away from this? Perhaps the information is conflicting with itself. If not, then the Woodsman was taken by the Devouring Earth in the early 1900's, but his powers were not used to transform Woodvale into Eden until sometime after the first Rikti attack in 2002. |
Then we get into the argument of, did Hamidon Pasalima create the Will of the Earth, and therefore the DE, from scratch, or did the Will of the Earth let him tap into some force of nature that had already existed and had empowered the DE for long before the human Hamidon's existence? You have to go through some convoluted tricks to avoid glaring inconsistencies...
*shines the Protean symbol again*
...I forgot what experience means.
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This is from the background text for Angelo Vendetti, a contact in Port Oakes.|
Originally Posted by SpaceNut
1940s - The Council splits off from Arachnos.
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| The vendetti Family came to ruin nearly 60 years ago, when the charismatic mutant known as 'The Center' plundered thir criminal empire for money to split from the old Arachnos and found the criminal organization called the Council and it's leader for nearly 60 years. |
"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."
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From the Freaklympics arc (lvl 25-29 hero-side), this is the end mission text for mission 5| * Upstart is arrested and sent to the Zig. |
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| It sounds like all of the Freaks at that lab were members of the Upstart Faction, a group of Freakshow dedicated to total anarchy and the end of all government. their leader, a young Freak named Upstart, was a like a living messiah to them. But he was captured several months ago. If they are planning on breaking him out of the Brick House, that could take these Freaklympics from bad to madness. I'll see if I can turn anything up. |
"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."
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That's the reference that's already in place. I was hoping there was another one...
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Originally Posted by Overconfidence
This is from the background text for Angelo Vendetti, a contact in Port Oakes.
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...I forgot what experience means.
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That's a tough one. I think it is supposed to be still 2011 in City of Heroes, as the opening of the Hero 1 time capsule was a date-specific event, which means the Rikti War was nearly ten years ago (something to think about with younger heroes is that they might've been kids during the invasion). I tend to just go with the kind of fuzzy, sliding chronology of comic books at times to handwave that.|
Originally Posted by Overconfidence
This has got me thinking - when is the 'present' in an MMO? References like this (and most of the in-game time references are similar as far as I can see) don't seem to be compatable with an objective time-line. Upstart's arrest is always going to be 'a few months ago' whenever the arc is played. Are there enough of these references to justify an alternative 'relative' timeline giving dates as '6 weeks ago' or 'last year'?
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Something I'm wondering about is what year the Nuclear 90 are supposed to have been born in. I always kind of figured it was 1986, the same year as the Chernobyl disaster.
You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
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Crow Call - Gods of the Golden Age
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Well, my first thought would be that there are not enough relative timeline dates to make an entire timeline out of them.|
Originally Posted by Overconfidence
From the Freaklympics arc (lvl 25-29 hero-side), this is the end mission text for mission 5
This has got me thinking - when is the 'present' in an MMO? References like this (and most of the in-game time references are similar as far as I can see) don't seem to be compatable with an objective time-line. Upstart's arrest is always going to be 'a few months ago' whenever the arc is played. Are there enough of these references to justify an alternative 'relative' timeline giving dates as '6 weeks ago' or 'last year'? |
The second thought is some kind of timeline for progression. It wouldn't seem unreasonable to equate one level to one month of in-game time, meaning that your progression to 50 takes a little over 4 years. Several arcs take place over long periods of time.
But yeah, it's tough to make it all work in a timeline fashion.
...I forgot what experience means.
So one of my big projects over the last month or so has been completely revamping the In-Game Timeline over at ParagonWiki: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/In-game_timeline
I'm closing in on completion, and now I need help! There are about 20 events that either no known date associated with them, or no date and no source. If you have dates or sources for any of the following events, please post them!
Events needing dates:
* The goddess Merulina falls silent, leaving the Coralax unguided and confused.
* The Banished Pantheon finds Adamastor and brings him to Paragon City.
* Rogue Islands - Massacre of the Red Hands pirates.
* Manuel Marcone arrested in Spain by Interpol and sentenced to 35 years in an European prison. Gang wars start in Port Oakes.
* Sharkhead Isle - The local hero Scrapyard is murdered by Mako.
* Woodsvale is attacked by Devouring Earth creatures. The hero Woodsman is killed.
* Tempter is arrested and imprisoned.
* Imad Malak finds Scirocco's relics.
* The mercenary Ernesto Rodriguez finds the Black Scorpion's battlesuit.
* Paragon City Power Crash.
Events needing dates AND sources:
* Arrival of Stheno to the Rogue Isles.
* The Zig is built.
* The Golden Giza is built.
* Protean attacks Manticore's house and kills both of his parents.
* Statesman forms Freedom Corps as a direct response to Hero Corps.
* Founding of the Hellions.
* Upstart is arrested and sent to the Zig.
* Demetrios Vasilikos (Dr. Vahzilok) goes crazy.
* Project FURY begins.
Also, if you have sources for any of the events on the timeline that have [Citation needed] next to them, feel free to post them here, or on the wiki talk page, and I'll incorporate them into the page soon!
Thanks for your help!
(Also, Zwillinger, if you see this and can point Protean my way for historical info, you'll be at the top of my list of awesome people, even though I didn't win a shirt in the chat today.)