Should NPCs one shot players?
By
Arilou,
Posted on: 2011-04-06 17:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
NPCs can't one-shot players. Any time you die from one "hit," you're getting hit with two separate "blasts" of damage.
To prove this to yourself, get two players - one good tank (to clean out everything but one of the Rikti in a spawn) and one level 1 anything.
Find a Headman Gunman. Set the level 1 into rest. Make sure nothing else is shooting. Let the Gunman take a shot. The level 1 will survive getting hit (with 1 HP.)
Why?
Just one type of damage (Energy, in this case. Also note the max HP on the right - compare to the damage on the left.)
Now, heal that level 1 up to full health. Find something else (I used a mezmerist - don't let him land a hold, etc. instead.) Do the same thing. The level 1 will die in one attack. Why?
One attack, but two "shots" of damage, Lethal and Energy.
Who's one-shotting you?
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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I suspect the OP is talking about the various instant-death zones in the Incarnate-related content: orbital death rays, falling swords, etc.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
Who's one-shotting you?
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Not when you are up against the really powerful enemies. Sure, Superman can laugh off armies and easily withstand the attacks of most enemies, but when Lex Luthor zaps him with an orbital Kryptonite beam or some such he's in a world of hurt.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
It seems that by allowing such a mechanic to be allowed, it really lowers the perception that this game is a super hero game, or a comic book game.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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In many instances, though, you aren't getting one-shot by an AV, you're getting one-shot by Hired Goon #3. Infernal kills me with that big axe, no problem. Some random robot or a sniper in Founders kills me, not cool.
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Not when you are up against the really powerful enemies. Sure, Superman can laugh off armies and easily withstand the attacks of most enemies, but when Lex Luthor zaps him with an orbital Kryptonite beam or some such he's in a world of hurt.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Nice explanation; irrelevant, though. "One-shot" means a single attack.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
NPCs can't one-shot players. Any time you die from one "hit," you're getting hit with two separate "blasts" of damage.
To prove this to yourself, get two players - one good tank (to clean out everything but one of the Rikti in a spawn) and one level 1 anything. Find a Headman Gunman. Set the level 1 into rest. Make sure nothing else is shooting. Let the Gunman take a shot. The level 1 will survive getting hit (with 1 HP.) Why? Just one type of damage (Energy, in this case. Also note the max HP on the right - compare to the damage on the left.) Now, heal that level 1 up to full health. Find something else (I used a mezmerist - don't let him land a hold, etc. instead.) Do the same thing. The level 1 will die in one attack. Why? One attack, but two "shots" of damage, Lethal and Energy. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Getting "one-shotted" isn't anything new.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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No, but it should stop. At least when you get to 50, if nowhere else.
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Getting "one-shotted" isn't anything new.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Oh I dont know, when I was pounding around Founders with my blaster, one of my favorite mini-games was to go sniper hunting right around Icon in the Gaspee. Nothing like sitting in the middle of three crey snipers and trying to take them out before at least two of them get you.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Some random robot or a sniper in Founders kills me, not cool.
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T'was proper blaster training when I was earning my cape grandpa!
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
I have no issue with marauder threatening to one-shot you because he gives a warning. Likewise siege and nightstar with their autohit unresistable hold - you have a way to avoid it, by losing aggro. I'm much less happy about the arbitrary mag 100 holds on ghost widow and reichsman. Sure most teams debuff them to crap and survive it anyway, but it's still an unfair power.
Well it's a fact that your human brain gives you an unfair tactical advantage.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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I believe they change that a while back, NPC can't one Shot, you might be getting with two attacks at once or one after another there.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
It seems that by allowing such a mechanic to be allowed, it really lowers the perception that this game is a super hero game, or a comic book game. Wasn't that the complaint about E.D. and GDN? From my point of view it should be done away with on the PVE side as well.
Does anyone disagree, or feel that this mechanic should stay as is? We know that one shotting other players has been done away with, but what of NPC's? |
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Not irrelevant at all. It's not a "single" attack. You're getting "attacked" twice - and each component matters when it comes to defense/resistance. |
Originally Posted by Ironik
Nice explanation; irrelevant, though. "One-shot" means a single attack.
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It's a limitation (or feature, depending on your POV - would you rather build up Ranged defense that protects you against a wide array of types, or just Smashing, or Psi, or Energy, or one of many?) of the way the game figures out attacks.
I don't believe, frankly, that the game could tell the difference between one attack reading "Chief Mesmerist smacks you with lethal! Cheif mezmerist smacks you with energy!" and an alpha where "Guardian smacks you with energy! Guardian smacks you with energy! Drone hits you with energy!" all at about the same moment.
It's also used in things you're just not supposed to survive - such as the Steel Canyon fire explosion.
You already have quite a bit of protection, in that one attack of a single damage type (and there are a fair number) can't one shot you - and you can't die from falling. (Note there's no "falling" damage, just smashing.) That wasn't always the case.
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Single attacks with multiple damage components will do it. (Such as the Rikti attack above, with Energy/Lethal.)
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Originally Posted by GreenFIame
I believe they change that a while back, NPC can't one Shot, you might be getting with two attacks at once or one after another there.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Single attacks with multiple damage components will do it. (Such as the Rikti attack above, with Energy/Lethal.)
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And it's nothing new at all.
My perma-Dull Pain regen scrapper has been one-shotted by Dr. Aeon in the STF, and he was sitting at scrapper HP cap at the time. 2,409 HP.....and I took over 3,000 points of damage.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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If only. Most of the PUG people I've seen ignore the warnings, ignore league chat and will happily stand still and AOE hold everyone around them. I've started moving and attacking at range on my melee characters as soon as I see second warning on somebody else as it's pretty much impossible to rely on other people not messing up.| Likewise siege and nightstar with their autohit unresistable hold - you have a way to avoid it, by losing aggro |
I'm not really only blaming *players* either, I know I'm not alone in experiencing heavy graphic lag during the trials, as well as hardly being able to see anything due to the ludicrous UI and constant stream of giant flashing text messages in the middle of the screen. Also, whoever thought it was a good idea to put the League chat as something optional that you have to manually add to the chat window... I have no words for how silly that is.
its not the "one shoting" that bothers me. its the stacked ambushes that go WAY over aggro cap, that turn into insta-death for anyone nearby.
Superheroes gets one-shotted all the time.
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In fact, when the "one-shot code" was implemented, this was exactly how it was billed as intended to work. That plan did not come to fruition.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I don't believe, frankly, that the game could tell the difference between one attack reading "Chief Mesmerist smacks you with lethal! Cheif mezmerist smacks you with energy!" and an alpha where "Guardian smacks you with energy! Guardian smacks you with energy! Drone hits you with energy!" all at about the same moment.
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On topic, I don't have a huge intrinsic issue with being one-shotted, but it can be frustrating if it's too consistent. The core principle here is that I think players should feel they have a chance to do something to avoid being defeated. I don't think it's kosher to overuse encounter design where the foes are designed to squash Tanker-level defenses with raw damage dealt as AoEs large enough to catch every "soft" AT in the general vicinity. The lightning AoE from Statesman in the Recluse SF is a good example of what I feel is borderline overkill on this sort of thing. Marauder really doesn't bother me, because (as mentioned) he gives quite fair warning - the player can, in fact, do something to avoid the one-shot.
Broadly speaking, in this game I don't think "one-shotting" is overly frequent, but basically only because they did give us the "one-shot code" protections. I think the devs need to pay a bit more attention to new, super-damaging effects that will explicitly bypass the way the one-shot protections actually work, where muti-typed damage and fast DoTs basically do mean one attack kills you before you (or anyone) can react.
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It seems that by allowing such a mechanic to be allowed, it really lowers the perception that this game is a super hero game, or a comic book game. Wasn't that the complaint about E.D. and GDN? From my point of view it should be done away with on the PVE side as well.
Does anyone disagree, or feel that this mechanic should stay as is? We know that one shotting other players has been done away with, but what of NPC's?