Been Away for Awhile (Demons/Dark vs Bots/Traps)
By
Bronze Knight,
Posted on: 2011-03-31 03:43 in Masterminds
To me it sounds like you would enjoy them both. Alt! Alt!
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
Likely will in time. But it has been ages and starting on a different server than I used to play on. Looking for something flexible and fun that I will be playing for a long time. A 'main', the other will likely end up being an alt. |
Originally Posted by Psylenz
To me it sounds like you would enjoy them both. Alt! Alt!
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I have been half considering a Mind/Fire Dominator... they look fun as well and perhaps a bit more group friendly. So many choices >.< I want to get one up a ways so I can get inf to spend on alts later and be more relaxed.
I'll say Demons/Dark because I have one, and I know how hard it rocks.
Tho on paper Bots/Traps rocks just as much.
Flip a coin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Bots are more ranged. The traps really do synergize will with the bots. Bots are a bit more easy to manage.
Demons like to get into melee. The dark heal is being enlarged in area of effect. Your ember demon will happily heal you and the other demons, too.
I didn't mean to come off too gruff. Both sets are solid, solid AoE damage dealing WINNERS. Do you like pecan pie or old fashioned cream pie better. That would be the choice I would be facing.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
If your looking for a new main on a different server you can't go wrong with Bots/Traps esaley soft caped and good damage and whatever you don't get invited to you can solo.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Demons are light years ahead of bots in ST dmg, but bots edge them out in AoE and tend to be a bit sturdier being they stay at range. One of the main reason i would go demons/dark over bots/traps is that demons tend to keep enemies bunched together with the slows from the prince and no Knockback. The Prince and Ember demon are 2 of the most end intensive pets out there and require a descent amount of end redux, the only bot that has this problem is the protector and 33% end redux usually fixes these problems.
Both are very solid builds with very different playstyles. I would build both eventually and go demons/dark first.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
It depends on what your gonna do.. How your gonna build the toon. If you could care less about IOs and set bonuses then it really does not matter. Both will serve there purpose.
If your going to go max out then I would say Robot Traps. Honestly Traps anything is great.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Such a difficult choice! Both would work nicely... likely will end up doing both eventually.
What can each do... what are the strengths and weaknesses as far as what they can solo... and their desirability in groups.
Okay, well...
Bots: Superior AoE. It's not a slight AoE difference, it's noteworthy.
Demons: Superior ST, supposedly. I can't confirm this, but honestly if it's no Ninjas ST, it's pretty much not a terribly superior thing of note.
Bots: Superior survivability. The Demons AoE Heal and AoE Resistance shield isn't comparable to the Prot Bots bubbles and burst heals.
Demons: Exotic damage types, but it's really only that "Toxic" damage that is worth acknowledging. Fire and Ice are right up there with Energy in common resistance types, but, it's still worth noting overall.
Honestly, Bots are going to edge out in all areas, except that arguable single-target damage. The problem with that is Demons don't have the "Excellent" Survivability to warrant their melee properties.
They're better Ninjas, flatly put.
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Are you going all out with IOs or just generic IOs ? |
Originally Posted by Sloshed
Such a difficult choice! Both would work nicely... likely will end up doing both eventually.
What can each do... what are the strengths and weaknesses as far as what they can solo... and their desirability in groups. |
With IOs set bonuses I say robot traps is superior for several reasons. Of course someone will come in and say that dark is best. But regardless with IO set bonuses and Force Field generator you will obtain soft positional defense cap. You can then provoke mobs to attack you as you keep your bots behind you spamming all bots stay command. You need another attack besides Provoke to get aggro, so I would suggest Trip mine to help you out. Since your at defense cap you can pretty much place a mine undisturbed at the bad guys feet. So your bots will out of melee and AOE range hopefully.
Demon is a mix and putting melee pets in the Range of a EB or an AV is insta death for your Tier 1 and possibly Tier 2 pets. Your Tier 3 pet will probably just be alive and a second hit or a hit on you with bodyguard mode will give him enough damage to kill him.
Dark needs the assistance of Darkest Night -ToHit Debuff toggle to obtain defense cap. Unless someone has another way. So if you loose the toggle for whatever reason you loose the defense cap. Debuffs can be resisted.
Personally on my Robot traps I am running 4/8 setting and fighting AV solo if needed. I don't know if a Demon Dark is running that, they probably can. But I think they have less wiggle room if stuff goes bad.
I can say that robot traps is easy mode. Once you have your IOs in place it simple as placing your traps and keeping your pets away from the bad guys. It really does not require much thinking. Add in incarnate and it is that much more powerful.
As bronze mentioned if this were your first toon on a server or your looking to have a toon that can farm stuff and be a Tank / Brute / Scrapper. This would be the toon.
Again as I mentioned above Traps is the part that is making the real difference. I can solo 1/8 settings without the pets. Traps has many fire and forget powers which are very quick on recharge.
I would say standard IOs maybe dark might be better as your getting or can get a bigger -ToHit Debuff out of darkest night and shadow fall then you could with the Traps build. So with generic IOs you will have better defense numbers with Dark.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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Originally Posted by plainguy
As bronze mentioned if this were your first toon on a server or your looking to have a toon that can farm stuff and be a Tank / Brute / Scrapper. This would be the toon.
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Yeah, first toon on the server. I can live with it if it has a bit of time to come into it's own. I will definitely make a Bots/Traps eventually.
Is the above quote saying a Bots/Traps is a perfect farmer... or that a Tank/Brute/Scrapper would be a better farmer? A character to farm bits for my other characters would be smart as a first character perhaps... making things easier on future characters.
Does Bots/Traps fit that bill or what would be best?
Even though bots/Traps is an amazing farmer, a SS/Fire Brute is still going to make more money, quicker. But Bots/Traps isn't slow by any means. Just slower than the other top farmers.
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Very sorry should have read if you want a farmer but DO NOT want to be a Tank / Brute / Scrapper. I usually preview all the time, but I missed that. |
Originally Posted by Sloshed
Yeah, first toon on the server. I can live with it if it has a bit of time to come into it's own. I will definitely make a Bots/Traps eventually.
Is the above quote saying a Bots/Traps is a perfect farmer... or that a Tank/Brute/Scrapper would be a better farmer? A character to farm bits for my other characters would be smart as a first character perhaps... making things easier on future characters. Does Bots/Traps fit that bill or what would be best? |
Without a doubt it is not as fast as one of those. Those guys can for example hit the ambush device 2 or 3 times to get 2 or 3 groups to spawn and clear them out. I usually go 1 hit from the vet want and clear out that group or dwindle them down to 3 to 5 mobs left and then rehit the ambush device. This is at 4/8 setting. At 3/8 I can handle 2 groups without much of an issue with my current build.
So for argument sake we can say they can do it in half the time it would take me. But there build are usually billions more then the 100s of millions it cost to make my build.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Wanting to make a mastermind that isn't evil so going to try out Praetorian for the first time. Having a difficulty deciding between Demons/Dark and Bots/Traps. Both seem very thematic and I have ideas for each of them.
Was curious if any could share their high/low points on each set and what they would recommend.