General tips for a bane build?


blueruckus

 

Posted

Lookin' to build a bane build in my crab's alternate build slots and just looking for some general advice.

Any general tips to get me going in the right direction? Venom Grenade looks tempting but I'd kinda prefer sticking with all mace attacks for theme and redraw issues. Any banes out there who run venom grenade in their build and if so, how well does it work out for you? Are the mace blast powers worth it? They seem a bit lackluster in mids, but maybe I'm wrong. Should I take placate for additional critical damage or does that kinda slow down the banes playstyle?

Any other info/advice would be appreciated. Thanks.


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Posted

General tips:

Venom Grenade is phenomenal, and unless you are REALLY deadset on using exclusively Mace attacks, I'd suggest splashing it in and then pulling out the ol' bashing stick. When fighting on a team, the force multiplier of your Leadership toggles along with hefty -resistance debuffs makes a huge impact, and Venom Grenade is both a superb AoE attack in its own right and your best debuff.

If you are in love with the SMASH of the mace, Black Scorpion's patron pool offers Shatter Armor, which is like Shatter and Surveillance mixed together in the best ways. I prefer Mako's pool for the improved AoE power while teamed (Arctic Breath is another AoE attack with -res, and Bile Spray is another pure toxic damage AoE) but both work well, and BS would have the edge solo or against AVs.

Placate is passable as a defensive tool, but if you are looking for a means to boost your DPS, look elsewhere. From a DPS perspective, the time spent placating would be better spent using ANY other Bane attack, unless the followup attack was a target capped Crowd Control.

The mace melee attacks are great; the ranged attacks are somewhat less so, but still serviceable. The level 1 blast is decidedly average - it's similar to Bash, but trading out the toxic DoT for range and a chance for KB. Poisonous Ray, when used alongside Venom Grenade for the -40% toxic resistance, is every bit as tasty as Pulverize but from range. Poisonous Ray is a staple of my ST attack chain, and I wouldn't like living without it even from a pure melee standpoint; the fact that it has decent range is a convenient perk. How much you value them will depend on how much you like having non-melee options when the baddies are spread out / running.

The mace AoE attacks (aside from Crowd Control which is sweet) are total crap though. The mace AoEs are categorically worse than any of the wolf or crab options, and probably worse than the Patron pool options aside from recharge rate. Unless you are deadset on putting together a seamless AoE chain without using any of the gun powers, which would be a pretty bizarre concept build, look elsewhere.

General attack strategy for my bane, assuming solo or with a small enough team that you can fight without shifting tactics: Stealth in, use Surveillance on the boss, pop Build up, use either Shatter or Crowd Control for the crit depending on how closely packed the enemies are, then jump back and lob a Venom Grenade. Follow up with Arctic Breath, along with Bile Spray from Mako's patron pool (if lots of enemies) or Poisonous Ray and then back to melee (if very few enemies, or one REALLY important threat). If on a team, the rest of your friends will be enjoying the damage boost that your Surveillance, Venom Grenades, Arctic Breath, and (possibly doublestacked) Assault bring to the table, and the battle should be over shortly. If solo, your chain of Poisonous Ray / Shatter / Pulverize / Crowd Control should cut things down to size quickly, and the constant knockdown of Shatter and Crowd Control make a big difference in keeping you safe against ugly bosses.


Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.

 

Posted

Venom grenade is just too nice to pass up IMO. Even if you hate using it while soloing, place it at lvl 49 with a default 50 acc IO and call it good for team steamrolling duties: an AE resist debuff is just plain nice to have lying around. As pointed out it also meshes well with poisonous ray.

I'll agree that the redraw on VG is annoying, but its pros far outweighs its one con. If I can live with surveillance's redraw, I can with VG's.

Have you ever been in the Fab area of north GV and have a NPC Bane Spider Executioner placate you, hit you with an exectioner's strike and finnish you off with the resulting toxic DoT? Reason right there to take placate!

Placate is nice to have for a few reasons: it only requires one slot, if used defensively it can keep a particularly dangerous critter at bay for a bit (ring mistresses, tarantula queens, etc), and of course allows for a free crit. Plus, as pointed out above, it's a signature bane move. Not a "must have" by any means, but hella nice to have when the opportunity arises.

edit: changing "vemon" to "venom"; venom kills things, vemons are what banes put in their iced tea...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Person34 View Post
Placate is nice to have for a few reasons: it only requires one slot, if used defensively it can keep a particularly dangerous critter at bay for a bit (ring mistresses, tarantula queens, etc), and of course allows for a free crit. Plus, as pointed out above, it's a signature bane move. Not a "must have" by any means, but hella nice to have when the opportunity arises.
Actually, using placate on a bane for the crit is a net DPS loss as banes don't get full crits and the cast time of placate is long enough that it is not always worth the crit damage. For example, looking at shatter (using arcanatime for all activation times and 95.66% damage enhancement in power)

Shatter Activation time: 2.508s
Shatter Base Damage (counting toxic dot): 302.48
Shatter Damage w/crit: 467.88
Placate Activation time: 1.843s

Shatter Base DPA (no crit): 120.6
Placate + Shatter DPA: 107.4

What this means is that if there are gaps in your attack chain then placate might be a good choice to squeeze out some extra damage. However, if you have a solid attack chain with no gaps placate is not going to raise your overall damage.

Its still not a BAD choice - it is still usefull as a defensive power to shed aggro from one big target. That makes it a good choice as you level up and don't have a full attack chain. On my bane once I hit 50 I finally dropped it in for the leadership pool assault so I could double stack them for +30% damage, which seemed more usefull to me.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

Yeah, I'm on the fence about placate. One the one hand, it helps when trying to stealth past something with a lot of perception, and it's saved me from an untimely demise at the hands of a rikti magus more than once. On the other hand, there's probably something more useful I could replace it with.


 

Posted

It's not always about DPS. Placate can be the difference between dropping a Minion, Lt or Boss and not dropping them. Also, it gives +20% ToHit.

And who doesn't love Placate>Crowd Control?

So in those rare instances where DPS truly is king, ie, Archvillain fights and objects with tons of Hit Points (pylons), Placate might not be the best idea. But for dropping Minions, Lts and even most Bosses? Yeah, it helps. A lot.

Plus, it's a conceptual/iconic Bane ability. Personally, I'd never want to be without it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
It's not always about DPS. Placate can be the difference between dropping a Minion, Lt or Boss and not dropping them. Also, it gives +20% ToHit.
I saw this and thought "he's thinking about build up". Looked over at Red Tomax's description of bane placate and sure enough:

ToHit +20% for 10s (after 0.25 second delay)
Effect does not stack from same caster

Stalkers and widows do not have the to hit bonus associated with their placates. Says something about the role that banes were intended for IMO. That's a cool find Daemodand!


 

Posted

i went with a 'pure' bane build (no venom grenade) and i had a ton of fun with him right after VEATs were introduced.

(going off memory)
i picked up mace blast over bash as a personal choice (from hide there are many better options than bash), skipped pulverize, and got the other utility and melee powers from the primary as well as poisonous ray (oh so good - even w/o venom grenade). all of the bane training, and most of the wolf training, including the armor, definitely skipping CTffensive, and definitely picking up TT:defensive (unexpectedly high +def).

i tried the other mace blasts, including the one from the epic and they all suck (i guess it's a toss up between mace blast and mace beam). basically only if you feel you must take them, but they are basically worthless, especially once you start using crowd control from hide for massive AoE damage.

reason for taking placate has been already discussed, but unless you're going for dps exclusively, placate will make you so happy. even if banes do not get the same critical damage as stalkers, it makes me happy to see 'Executioner's Strike' after using shatter. (i haven't used shatter armor yet, need to respec into it as it wasn't available when i leveled him up). not to mention crowd control has a 50% chance for crit from hide and you can get more mileage out of it with placate than without.

the pets help a decent amount too, especially with the tactical training buffs.

this makes me want to dust my lvl 50 bane off, respec him and wreak some havoc.


50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004

 

Posted

well, i went and played my old bane last night - i did choose CT offensive over CT defensive (Doh!).

however, i did a quick respec into inherent stamina, and got shatter armor.

basic build for pure bane (i think this is the order i used - got most everything when available and filled in the empty spots):

1 mace beam
1 bane spider armor upgrade
2 wolf spider armor
4 CT defensive
6 BU
8 hasten
10 super speed
12 poisonous ray
14 TT maneuvers
16 TT assault
18 shatter
20 maneuvers
22 mental training
24 cloaking device
26 placate
28 surveillance
30 TT tactics
32 crowd control
35 web cocoon
38 call reinforcements
41 web grenade
44 shatter armor
47 summon blaster
49 combat jumping

on a SO/common IO build, i had just enough slots to give all the attacks 2 acc/3 dam, both pets 3 rech/1 acc/2 dam, 3 def in both maneuvers, 3 rech in placate, BU and hasten, and everything adequately slotted. i also have ~40% ranged def, and ~30% defense to all (i have a little more due to a steadfast res/def i didn't realize i had in the build previously ).
he also has net gain of +2 end/sec or so, although he eats through blue fast - he usually defeats the spawns fast enough that he doesn't bottom out and recovers quickly once they are defeated.

tested against the alpha unlock arc - trapdoor was a breeze, the minotaur got a few lucky hits in when i rushed with all 3 pets and killed me (for got to pop a purple to soft-cap myself), but came back and slaughtered him when i returned sans pets but with a purple. web cocoon and grenade are great for slowing him down while my melee attacks recharged so i could pelt him with poisonous ray and mace beam.

not sure on best attack chain though that will incorporate shatter armor (as it doesn't crit from hide). i though it might be surveillance->BU->shatter armor->placate->shatter for the double -resist. this is the best chain when not hidden, but from hide you gain nothing by using shatter armor from hide. any ideas?


50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004

 

Posted

Bane's Placate gives 20% tohit? Is this hidden? I never know that! lol Well, I already carry Tactics so I really don't have any accuracy problem.


I agree that Placate + Shatter doesn't increase your dps. However, Placate +Crowd Control is nice.

I just wish Shatter Armor could critical... that would be beautiful.

General Tip?

1. Take Venom Grenade even if it messes with your theme. Venom Grenade is too good to pass.

2. Don't bother with most of the Mace Beam attacks. Poison Ray is ok. I find it too slower for my liking but the damage is decent.

3. Use Surveillance frequently and take Shatter Armor! Shatter Armor is the reason why I play mostly Bane now and not Crab. It fits my Stalker style much better.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Agreed, the accuracy buff from placate isn't worth writing home about, I'm running TT:Tactics and get a pile of accuracy from set bonuses, to say nothing of build-up and surveillance. All in all, I'll leave the placate to the true stalkers.

Quote:
It's not always about DPS. Placate can be the difference between dropping a Minion, Lt or Boss and not dropping them. Also, it gives +20% ToHit.
Perhaps not, but I'd rather throw a web envelope at a single target to get them to stop hitting me than placate them and have them run off and start hitting someone else. Ultimately, whether you take it has more to do with how pressed for power picks in your build you are than anything else. I dropped it so I could make sure I got tough/weave and double maneuvers/assault. If you want to play a less brute-like, more finesse role, by all means, grab placate. However, Bane Machine is here to smash face, not sneak around.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
It's not always about DPS. Placate can be the difference between dropping a Minion, Lt or Boss and not dropping them. Also, it gives +20% ToHit.

And who doesn't love Placate>Crowd Control?

So in those rare instances where DPS truly is king, ie, Archvillain fights and objects with tons of Hit Points (pylons), Placate might not be the best idea. But for dropping Minions, Lts and even most Bosses? Yeah, it helps. A lot.

Plus, it's a conceptual/iconic Bane ability. Personally, I'd never want to be without it.
I like to have fun, with that I don't look at my DPS but I will admit my attack chain of Shatter, crowd control, placate, shatter armor, shatter, crowd control makes easy work of just about anything or any group and just looks so smexy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuceyKins View Post
I like to have fun, with that I don't look at my DPS but I will admit my attack chain of Shatter, crowd control, placate, shatter armor, shatter, crowd control makes easy work of just about anything or any group and just looks so smexy.
just so you know, shatter armor does not critical from hide. placate after shatter armor for even better damage on your next shatter, as shatter armor gives a damage resistance debuff (hence why it doesn't critical... or at least that's the assumption).


50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004

 

Posted

Venom grenade is skippable.

You can do quite well without it.


 

Posted

There's a lot of amazing powers in this game that you can do quite well without. That's just the nature of City of Heroes.

I'd still strongly recommend Venom Grenade.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetpack View Post
Venom grenade is skippable.

You can do quite well without it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kailure View Post
There's a lot of amazing powers in this game that you can do quite well without. That's just the nature of City of Heroes.

I'd still strongly recommend Venom Grenade.
If you are going primarily solo with a mace based bane, venom grenade is a bit questionable. The massive redraw in going from mace -> gun -> mace combined with the fact that venom grenade will drop you out of hide, so you can't use it as an opener, means that it solo usefulness is extremely limited. However, if you expect to spend any reasonable amount of time in a group then it is well worth taking.

As an alternative, my recommendation for a group bane would be to take advantage of the second build and make that one a huntsman for grouping and use the mace based bane purely for solo - thats what I did and it works very well. The huntsman is an awesome group support character who focuses on AoE damage and group buffs. A huntsman can also sofcap ranged damage fairly easily, which means they can put any extra +def towards AoE and leave melee def at the base values, since you are a ranged expert. When solo you can switch to the mace build and focus that build on high single target damage and melee def.

Check the guide sticky at the top of the VEAT forum for a huntsman guide.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

While it's no Venom Grenade to be sure, I've found that an Achilles' Heel proc in poisonous ray is a surprisingly decent source of -res. It's also easy to see when it procs since it's a DoT power.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
As an alternative, my recommendation for a group bane would be to take advantage of the second build and make that one a huntsman for grouping and use the mace based bane purely for solo - thats what I did and it works very well. The huntsman is an awesome group support character who focuses on AoE damage and group buffs. A huntsman can also sofcap ranged damage fairly easily, which means they can put any extra +def towards AoE and leave melee def at the base values, since you are a ranged expert. When solo you can switch to the mace build and focus that build on high single target damage and melee def.
This I would agree with.