Fire Tank Weakness: Electric Tank?

Hey guys,

I'm in this big Tanker phase of CoH I guess and I just started up a 'pure' good ol' fashioned Fire/fire tank.

He seems really fun, but when I look at builds posted, and the build I've made in Mids a few things stick out at me.

Would it be safe to say that Fire tanks are probably the squishiest?

Would it be safe to say Fire tanks (with fire secondary) can do the most damage? The most AOE damage for certain I would imagine?

I made a build and it seemed like my Electric Tank is more durable, and thanks to two powers in Elec/elec, better at mitigating damage through crowd control.

But where Elec/Elec probably falls behind Fire/Fire is in pure damage output. Both might seem to have issue with Knockback?

Anyway just wondering how Fire compares overall to the modern tank sets.

Are you comparing them on a level 50 scenario, or while leveling up? My opinions posted below are based on a level 50 scenario with good IO set builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Elektro_ Would it be safe to say that Fire tanks are probably the squishiest?

Probably, but they are durable enough to tank anything. Their heal recharges faster than most other Tankers' and comes in second place for HP/s healed, behind Dark Armor's.

Quote:

Would it be safe to say Fire tanks (with fire secondary) can do the most damage? The most AOE damage for certain I would imagine?

I think Super Strength is the best secondary for doing damage, but I could be wrong. Fire is definitely the best primary for damage with Burn and Fiery Embrace.

Quote:

I made a build and it seemed like my Electric Tank is more durable, and thanks to two powers in Elec/elec, better at mitigating damage through crowd control.

Electric Armor has more resistance to the most common damage types and can potentially cap S/L/E resistances at level 50 with IO sets and the Cardiac Alpha.

Quote:

But where Elec/Elec probably falls behind Fire/Fire is in pure damage output. Both might seem to have issue with Knockback?

Grounded should provide knockback protection for the Electric Tanker if you stay on the ground. Fire only needs 2-3 knockback protection IOs and it isn't an issue.

Quote:

Anyway just wondering how Fire compares overall to the modern tank sets.

I would say Fire is more for doing damage than the other Tanker sets.

Fire tankers are less durable than most other tankers, though they're a much smoother ride 1-50. Resistance based, so no unlucky streaks before you can softcap, and with a cheap heal available very early (Dark Regeneration is too expensive to use frequently at low levels, while Energize is quite late in the set for Elec). It even has Consume for some endurance management.

In the late game, Fire is a little less tough than most of the other armors, but makes up for it with strong damage - and defeated mobs deal no damage, so you can use that as extra mitigation. All the same, you can make Fire tankers that are extremely hard to kill. For example, my Fire/Fire/Energy build with 32.5% to all positions (one purple to softcap), almost 70% S/L resistance, 280% regen and a 15 second cycle time on Healing Flames.

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Hmm well not taking Hasten on that build you are loosing survivabilty because your the longer recharge on your heal...and I am not sure how it affects any attack chain you have either.

to compare here's a Elec/SS build with 5 second foot stomp and perma hasten and Energize

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Golden Pie,

I see your point about cycling, but at the same time, as nice as your recharge is it's a build that would cost a brazillion influence.

I am in a bit of a bind.

I worked hard on my Elec/Elec tanker and he's now 46 and change. His build is actually quite inexpensive and he seems a fair bit more survivable than the Fire Tank builds I'm seeing.

Regardless, I kept trying to level my fire tank, jumping on my Shield/SS tank for a change of pace, and the contrast between Sheild/SS and Fire/Fire is huge. Fire just motors along..... (I've got a 50 + Shield scrapper thought so I know what the payoff is in the end game.)

As I'm playing the Fire/Fire I am having trouble figuring out exactly why I would make him my 'main' over my Elec/Elec and I'm having trouble justifying it.

It would seem the Elec/Elec 'appears' superior in every way except AOE damage, and even then he's no slouch.

I enjoy the ease of the early levels with the Fire/Fire. There's no doubt it's built to be successful at an early level, whereas Elec takes more time to become more rounded. But the Elec, or should I say my Elec has superior recharge, better resists across the board (swapping Energy for Fire obviously), two AOE's that have a form of crowd control, a Heal that boosts REGEN (it's nearly perma).... and a very, very nice late game high resist to Psionic which is not entirely from IO's but a shield in the set.

That being said FIRE is cool. Cool animations, and the idea of walking around, on fire, is pretty cool. I'm thinking though that as fantastic as Fire/Fire seems to be a low levels, that Elec/Elec tips the scales in the later stages of the game.

I still like to team quite a bit, and usually as a tank, actually all of my tanks, typically get called in when a team is having real issues with something. Now when I think of that scenario, the Elec/Elec would seem to fit that role better, no?

Has anyone out there played both Elec/Elec and Fire/Fire to 40+?

@Elektro

I have a Fire/Fire tank and while I don't have an Elec/Elec tank, I do have an Elec/Elec scrapper (and an Elec/Fire tank I am leveling up).

I like both combos quite a bit, and neither is a slouch, but I think I like Elec armor better than I do Fire. Also, there are few things in this game as satisfying to me as taking out a mob with lightning rod and/or shield charge (and LR edges out SC for me, YMMV).

Here is the thing - they say Fire tanks have more damage - on a GOOD team they don't need your paultry damage. A couple of blasters, some scrappers and you get a taunt off drop a burn patch and everything is dead.

All you need is to survive the alpha.

Electric does that better.

Fire tanks on a BAD team need both alpha survival and long term survival. Electric is better at both. The damage as you said is not that far off while the survival is.

I have been leveling a Fire/Electric and quite happy. I have several nice knockdown powers to add long term and immediate survival. I also have the winter's gift slow resist and other slow resists slotted that gives me 60% resistance to slows. This mean those dreaded Council with the ice rifles of death barely scratch me.

Fire/Fire is fun but really squishie without a serious IO expense.

I don't have an Electric Tanker, but I do have fully mature, IOed-out Invulnerability/SS/Pyre and Fire/Fire/Pyre Tankers. While the Inv is clearly head and shoulders above the Fire for durability, there are many situations where he'd still be alive, chugging through a crowd of foes, but in the same situation the Fire Tanker would have already killed everything and be healing up from the beating she'd taken.

Fire/Fire's damage is very good for something as durable as a tanker. It's not just a little bit better than the typical Tanker. A Blaster once told my Fire/Fire/Pyre "You kill like a Scrapper!"

As far as Fire/Fire fans being defensive: If we wanted defense, we wouldn't have picked Fiery Aura, would we?

In all seriousness, we're not jumping down your throat because everything you said was true - Elec *is* tougher than Fire for a similar level of investment. We just think that Fire is tough enough for what we want to do with it, and provides a very good offensive boost in Fiery Embrace and Burn. It's possible that Fire/Fire's not for you - it's an unusual Tanker and not everyone's cup of tea. But I'd ask you to give it a chance. Push on a bit, get Burn, and maybe Fire Sword Circle and Fiery Embrace if you're feeling charitable. Dive into a spawn, hit Build Up, Fiery Embrace, Burn and FSC and watch that spawn just melt away as the DoTs tick and you beat up the bosses. That's the essence of Fire tanking. Enemies don't shoot you because your reality-defying levels of determination or rock-hard abs somehow offend them. They shoot you because if they don't, you're going to flambe the lot of them. In fact, you'll probably roast them even if they do.

That's fair Elf... very fair.

I just keep flashing back to trying Statesman Task Force.... and think, how would my Fire/Fire tank fair in that scenario?

I keep bouncing between the two tanks (I have sort of shelved my Shield/SS project for now)

the part i think everyone is missing is all these numbers are based off unslotted or s.o.'s. your all missing the fact that any of these " sucky" or " lack luster" or "weaker" can be made to be stronger then pretty much any tank.

its all about your build people. if you wanna always talk about just numbers thats fine but really who here even uses just s.o's anymore i mean really.

Liberty beat me to it. Fire tanker damage is definitely not something to ignore. As far as AoE burst damage goes, a well built fire tank is right up there with blasters. Sure, a blaster will pump out more damage over, say, a minute. But over a 10 second burst of time, a fire tank can 2-3 shot an entire spawn, the same way a blaster can.