Auto Archetype and Powerset Bonuses
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-02-26 24:39 in Suggestions and Ideas
If you want to insert "common sense" into how powers work and whether a character should be as damaged by opponent's powers that have the same damage type - why stop there?
Wouldn't the same "common sense" mean that a character's powers would damage your team mates (the ice blaster isn't resistent to fire, for example) and NPCs caught in an AoE blast? I know that when I first started playing the game over six years ago, I worried about catching the poor civilian having her purse snatched in my Fire or Energy blasts. "Common Sense" would have dictated that she be injured if I aimed it wrong and she got caught in the splash of the power.
And as others, PCs can build that resistence (as an option) by using IOs to represent the resistence to fire, energy, etc., to differing degrees depending upon which IOs can be used in the character's powers and how much the player wants to spend.
So, I like the current way the game answers your dilemma, because otherwise, if carried to its logical extent, I would have to start worrying about my AoEs catching NPCs and other players. (This thought reoccurred to me last night while on a Sister Psyche TF with 2 other Fire blasting characters, for a total of 3 fireballs and fire breaths going off in each spawn, even the ones with hostages in the middle.)
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Using Common Sense my Stalkers inherant ability is called Assassination. This ability is mainly used through the power Assassin's Strike.
I'm using my Assassin's Strike ability to trigger the Assassination effect, my target is now dead.
Goodbye Hamidon,Reichman,Staesman,Recluse and any other enemy I decide to Assassinate. Common Sense right?
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without sets genious.. i'm tired of people getting sly on this foruma dn thinkign they are smart and thought of somethign I didn;t when if they would have read the posts so far they would have seen I'm trying to Give Auto Power set bonuses NO SETS REQUIRED.
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Originally Posted by Diggis
If you fired a laser at Cyclops would it hurt him?
 It is, using Set bonuses and Epic or Ancilary power pools. |
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read up I already answered that.
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Originally Posted by Ad Astra
If you want to insert "common sense" into how powers work and whether a character should be as damaged by opponent's powers that have the same damage type - why stop there?
Wouldn't the same "common sense" mean that a character's powers would damage your team mates (the ice blaster isn't resistent to fire, for example) and NPCs caught in an AoE blast? I know that when I first started playing the game over six years ago, I worried about catching the poor civilian having her purse snatched in my Fire or Energy blasts. "Common Sense" would have dictated that she be injured if I aimed it wrong and she got caught in the splash of the power. And as others, PCs can build that resistence (as an option) by using IOs to represent the resistence to fire, energy, etc., to differing degrees depending upon which IOs can be used in the character's powers and how much the player wants to spend. So, I like the current way the game answers your dilemma, because otherwise, if carried to its logical extent, I would have to start worrying about my AoEs catching NPCs and other players. (This thought reoccurred to me last night while on a Sister Psyche TF with 2 other Fire blasting characters, for a total of 3 fireballs and fire breaths going off in each spawn, even the ones with hostages in the middle.) |
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I know what you are trying to give, but I disagree it's required as a freebie. If you want it, build for it.
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Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
without sets genious.. i'm tired of people getting sly on this foruma dn thinkign they are smart and thought of somethign I didn;t when if they would have read the posts so far they would have seen I'm trying to Give Auto Power set bonuses NO SETS REQUIRED.
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If you're going to try to insult someone by calling them a genius, it helps if you spell it correctly.
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Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
without sets genious..
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Insults aside, but where is the balance? You aren't suggesting any. How is this fair to some powersets - say storm or rad? Should an archery blaster be less resistant to an AR blaster but more than a DP blaster? What about regen - what are they resistant too? Healing? |
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
without sets genious.. i'm tired of people getting sly on this foruma dn thinkign they are smart and thought of somethign I didn;t when if they would have read the posts so far they would have seen I'm trying to Give Auto Power set bonuses NO SETS REQUIRED.
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What will be the penalty if you don't balance? You are suggest free bonuses and then claim they will be optional. Who in their right mind will say "no, I won't take this bonus, just because"?
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Never post when angry. This is what it looks like. |
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
without sets genious.. i'm tired of people getting sly on this foruma dn thinkign they are smart and thought of somethign I didn;t when if they would have read the posts so far they would have seen I'm trying to Give Auto Power set bonuses NO SETS REQUIRED.
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Your idea is terrible. As others have said, there is no balance. I suggest you think out your ideas a lot more before posting any again.
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Kragoss, my embodiment of destruction, wields a power that is the manifestation of pure destruction, reducing matter into complete nothingness. It spreads and catches like fire, but gives off no heat and instead consumes energy.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Not all the time. You've got fox fire, will o' wisp fire, soul/spirit fire, hellfire, black/dark fire, divine/holy fire. Some are hot, others don't burn a thing except what they're intended to harm, and I'm sure someone creative enough could think up a cool concept for some neat fire types.
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I'm not sure if that counts, but I like it
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The problem is that the logic behind your reasoning is fundamentally wrong. You gave an example of a gunslinger using a vest to be "resistant to bullets." The problem is that your vest example coincides with having an Armor Set, not a Blaster Set. You basically described a Blaster/Tanker hybrid, which isn't available in the game. For good reason.|
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
without sets genious.. i'm tired of people getting sly on this foruma dn thinkign they are smart and thought of somethign I didn;t when if they would have read the posts so far they would have seen I'm trying to Give Auto Power set bonuses NO SETS REQUIRED.
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So yes, many of us thought of something you didn't.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
it is not, NOT supposed to make the game easy for everyone at every level, it's just supposed to give them res to their own damage type, cause it makes sense. also, maybe this effect should be strictly PVE.
snip I personally don't think of it as a cool/not cool idea, I think of it as common sense. <snip> |
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Originally Posted by Ad Astra
If you want to insert "common sense" into how powers work and whether a character should be as damaged by opponent's powers that have the same damage type - why stop there?
Wouldn't the same "common sense" mean that a character's powers would damage your team mates (the ice blaster isn't resistent to fire, for example) and NPCs caught in an AoE blast? I know that when I first started playing the game over six years ago, I worried about catching the poor civilian having her purse snatched in my Fire or Energy blasts. "Common Sense" would have dictated that she be injured if I aimed it wrong and she got caught in the splash of the power. And as others, PCs can build that resistence (as an option) by using IOs to represent the resistence to fire, energy, etc., to differing degrees depending upon which IOs can be used in the character's powers and how much the player wants to spend. So, I like the current way the game answers your dilemma, because otherwise, if carried to its logical extent, I would have to start worrying about my AoEs catching NPCs and other players. (This thought reoccurred to me last night while on a Sister Psyche TF with 2 other Fire blasting characters, for a total of 3 fireballs and fire breaths going off in each spawn, even the ones with hostages in the middle.) |
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Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
read up I already answered that.
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Where did you answer the part of my post that carried your idea the next step, using "common sense"? The part where common sense would dictate that my AoE blasts splash onto team mates & NPCs, which is after all common sense, because how does it make sense that my team mate knows to jump out of the way, let alone the civilians. They do not have resistence to my powers' damage type (unless one of the PCs shares that damage type with you.)
Look, this game world right now has its own "common sense" that is basically consistent within itself. As someone pointed out upthread, real world common sense went out the window when the tank changed himself into Granite, or when the blaster shot fire or ice from their hands or blew it out of their mouths.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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While I see what your getting at, there are examples of those types who aren't.|
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
I ended up asking myself a series of questions and found the answer remarkably laughable.
a fire blaster can wield fire right? yes a fire blaster isn't hurt by their own fire correct? correct fire is fire correct? yes, fire is always fire some may be hotter but still fire itself is pretty hot. so.. then why do fire blasters trollers and dmoinators, defenders and other archytypes take fire damage just like every other squishy? why do energy squishies take energy and negative damage just like everyother squishy? ETC.. the answer is laughable so why not give players a global resistance bonus (that goes up with their level) based on their power sets? and shouldn't blasters and other ranged archs get high ranged def and res? |
Pyro (enemy of the X-Men) has the ability to control flame, but is only immune to the flames under his control.
I wouldn't say Blasters and other ranged characters should get high ranged defense, but it would help with the notion that range is defense
Yeah it's a defense, if you can stay at range (not easy) and then only if they have weak (tho even by weak it can kill you...at least for blasters) ranged attacks, and likely if you have LOTS of range defense to begin with.
Something to push for instead of this, might be to have such Epic shields for non melee types, to give more resist than they already do, to their damage type.
I'd give the S/L a bit more S/L Resist (but not enough to cap it).
I'd give the elemental shields the ability to cap the Damage resist to the one elemental type (Fire Armor = Fire) if they slotted it up.
But then, saying this, and as I've requested in the past, I'd set it up so Dark Armor (melee ATs) got more Negative Energy Resist (I always thought they should beable to cap the NE Resist).
[Edit] As an added note, the problem with saying Energy/ Resists Energy Damage at cap (or even lower than resist cap) is that Energy Damage is a blanket damage type for various Damage sets (Lightning, Radiation, Light Energy...ect...ect).
It could work for Fire and Cold easy enough really, but with Energy, not so much.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Balance, you keep asking for balance.
the balance is already in place, this is just an optional freebie, optional freebies aren't required to survive the game, so they don't require any balance.
you are what you are; your powersets would give you an optional choice to be naturally resistant to the damage type you deal.
it's optional, it's extra, it doesn't require that everybody has equal stats for balance because it is extra.
it might make the game easier for some, but it wont make the game any harder for others.
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Only the most hard core roleplayer would NOT take this. It becomes mandatory because it makes you substantially better. Slotting powers is optional, you still work without them, just not so well. So you slot them. Same thing.
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Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
Balance, you keep asking for balance.
the balance is already in place, this is just an optional freebie, optional freebies aren't required to survive the game, so they don't require any balance. you are what you are; your powersets would give you an optional choice to be naturally resistant to the damage type you deal. it's optional, it's extra, it doesn't require that everybody has equal stats for balance because it is extra. it might make the game easier for some, but it wont make the game any harder for others. |
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But the devs have to make the content challenging that keep us playing, otherwise it will become boring fast and players leave. How will they program the appropriate challenge for all toons, all powersets and ATs? |
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
Balance, you keep asking for balance.
the balance is already in place, this is just an optional freebie, optional freebies aren't required to survive the game, so they don't require any balance. you are what you are; your powersets would give you an optional choice to be naturally resistant to the damage type you deal. it's optional, it's extra, it doesn't require that everybody has equal stats for balance because it is extra. it might make the game easier for some, but it wont make the game any harder for others. |
And between powersets, they have damage types and secondary effects. Rad on a def does energy damage and -def. Energy blast does energy/smash and KB. So who gets the better resistance? The same? Does energy blast get both energy and smash? Where does that leave sonic which is smash/energy and -res? You have to balance this or people will just max out resists/def to the most common types and use IOs to fill in the holes.
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a very valid question, there are 2 options for consideration;|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
But the devs have to make the content challenging that keep us playing, otherwise it will become boring fast and players leave. How will they program the appropriate challenge for all toons, all powersets and ATs?
And between powersets, they have damage types and secondary effects. Rad on a def does energy damage and -def. Energy blast does energy/smash and KB. So who gets the better resistance? The same? Does energy blast get both energy and smash? Where does that leave sonic which is smash/energy and -res? You have to balance this or people will just max out resists/def to the most common types and use IOs to fill in the holes. |
1: only the main damage type affects your res, EX: an energy blaster would only be resistant to energy damage even though he can deal smashing and KB.
2: Percent based sharing, 20% res gets split between the damage types and effects you deal based on their already present values. in which case the 20% boost is split apart. EX: energy blast might be; 10% energy res, 5% Smashing res, 5% KB res.
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Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
a very valid question, there are 2 options for consideration;
1: only the main damage type affects your res, EX: an energy blaster would only be resistant to energy damage even though he can deal smashing and KB. 2: Percent based sharing, 20% res gets split between the damage types and effects you deal based on their already present values. in which case the 20% boost is split apart. EX: energy blast might be; 10% energy res, 5% Smashing res, 5% KB res. |
And the answer is still /unsigned. This would take entirely to long to get right without opening up a whole entire planets worth of cans of worms. this idea is just not for this version of CoH/V.
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Appreciate the answers. But agreeing with Sharker that this might not be the best for CoX at this time. If they come out with a sequel, it could be integrated and balanced right the bat.
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Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
a very valid question, there are 2 options for consideration;
1: only the main damage type affects your res, EX: an energy blaster would only be resistant to energy damage even though he can deal smashing and KB. 2: Percent based sharing, 20% res gets split between the damage types and effects you deal based on their already present values. in which case the 20% boost is split apart. EX: energy blast might be; 10% energy res, 5% Smashing res, 5% KB res. |
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Hey, I'm still trying to figure out why my, let's say /Ninja Stalker, can't pick up let's say...two Dual Pistols and learn to do fancy shooting with them.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
But surely part of the in-universe handwave about superhero powers is that it generally includes the unspoken extra details that make people able to use their powers without dying instantly? F'rex, Cyclops can blast stuff out of his eyes, but there's no need to start invoking special measures to make sure he doesn't vaporise his own eyelids whenever he blinks, or fry his own brain. That's assumed to come with the eye-blast package.
So once you've established that 'and their body makes FIRE!' is an in-universe rule that doesn't have to adhere to the laws of physics, then you don't need to worry about the logic of why said fire isn't then killing them, because that's usually considered to be automatically included. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
but there are certain super heros/villains that are elementals as you call them, if it comes down to raw ability to make a character sensible, maybe it should be an optional choice that you can take for free at any level with a resistance slider that can give you upto 20%
basically it should be an option for characters.