I plan on responding to some of your thoughts either later tonight or tomorrow morning after I've had a moment to digest and think about them. (Monday's for me are like Monday's for many of you I'm sure...)
Just a few thoughts:
- The Community Team has conveyed your thoughts and the sentiment in this thread
- I will eventually be closing this thread down for archival, and starting a new thread with a different focus of feedback.
Folks, I'll reiterate what I stated about understanding apathy and your feelings regarding this subject. Just keep in mind that there's no harm in talking about the current state of PvP if for no better reason than to help me get more thoroughly acquainted with your feelings regarding the situation.
I've read the stickied threads, and I understand what's been stated in the past. I'm still interested in an open dialog though and this is part of that.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Quote:
This.|
Originally Posted by blaackbarrier
Z,
Castle and Posi said they were working on objective-based pvp a few months after i13. Is that code still around somewhere? |
I admit I've barely ever tried to be a srs bzns COH PvPer, but this would make me at least try to get better at it. Team Deathmatch is about the most boring concept for PvP imaginable. What exaggerates that boredom is the egregiously flawed mechanics of the i13 changes along with the ridiculous gear gap for COH PvP. Those are the two things that really stood out to me when I tried to get into PvP (right around the time i13 was in beta...ugh).
Two things will get me into COH PvP for a very long time.
1. Objective-Based Matches - I have close, personal contacts in the industry for this if Paragon needs some consultation / feedback. (They'll do it for free as long as you give them a PR nod.
)2. Remove the Gear Gap - Go talk to your ArenaNet buddies about this. They have a fantastic system for giving people instant PvP Characters that don't require weeks / months of aberrant farming or TOS-breaking RMT just to compete. (Read As: Awesome Micro-Transaction Opportunity for the studio instead of outside sites. (Yeah, yeah, haters gonna hate...but if more people can get into PvP faster....).
I hate to presume, but I think adding this third thing will make PvP more popular in COH.
3. In-Game Recognition - Leaderboards, Exclusive Costume and / or Base Items, etc. The sky is the limit here. Putting a SG or Squad name in lights around the Arenas will give exposure to the system for new players and a visible goal for the hardcores.
If anyone with clout is actually reading this post, please DO NOT gloss over 1 & 2 for the easy number 3.
Quote:
whats the point?|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Folks, I'll reiterate what I stated about understanding apathy and your feelings regarding this subject. Just keep in mind that there's no harm in talking about the current state of PvP if for no better reason than to help me get more thoroughly acquainted with your feelings regarding the situation.
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everyone who has ever remotely been involved with pvp has gone through this round about multiple times. Personally i've had numerous conversations with mod08 when he used to come to triumph and we would talk about the current state of pvp, he'd go through the same round about you're giving us right now. what do you guys think will make pvp better, what do you like about pvp ect. albeit those were the first conversations and the ones after those were basically "hows it coming on the pvp front mod08?" and he'd give something along the lines of "im trying but to no avail" followed by a feelsbadman.jpg.
and i think the big discourse in this thread is this
Quote:
| Just keep in mind that there's no harm in talking about the current state of PvP |
by creating this thread to "talk about the current state of pvp" without giving us something to put our good graces on, you're(generic dev you) acting like there is a chance for something to be done about pvp, when anyone who has been around knows that that isn't going to happen. we've done this before and nothing happened. why should this be any different? its like reminiscing to a recovering alcoholic about the good times you used to have when you used to get ****faced on the weekends.
we're now at the point were community feedback and talking about the subject isn't the problem and action by the dev team, or lack there of, is the problem. and it has been for a long long time.
so, again, whats the point of putting the pvp community through this same dog and pony show, something its already been through before, when there is almost nothing differently from the past and why should we be expecting a different outcome.
I can understand your wanting to understand the pvp community and your empathy towards us, but no matter how constructive this thread gets, all it does is harm your pvp community when they know, you know, and the other devs know that nothing has been done, and there has yet to be anything to show that anything will be done.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
you can dangle that cookie in front of that dog for a long long time, but sooner of later he's gonna bite your *** or just lose interest in it...
Quote:
Pretty much this.
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Originally Posted by PC_guy
whats the point?
everyone who has ever remotely been involved with pvp has gone through this round about multiple times. Personally i've had numerous conversations with mod08 when he used to come to triumph and we would talk about the current state of pvp, he'd go through the same round about you're giving us right now. what do you guys think will make pvp better, what do you like about pvp ect. albeit those were the first conversations and the ones after those were basically "whos it coming on the pvp front mod08?" and he'd give something along the lines of "im trying but to no avail" followed by a feelsbadman.jpg. and i think the big discourse in this thread is this because i dont' think this is correct AT ALL. there is alot of harm in talking about the current state of pvp. why? because we've been talking about the current state of pvp for the last 3 years. every time the issue comes up its followed by rage, frustration, and disappointment. you're getting the hopes up of anyone who isn't already jaded by the devs actions in the past and that is a very dangerous thing to do. by creating this thread to "talk about the current state of pvp" without giving us something to put our good graces on, you're(generic dev you) acting like there is a chance for something to be done about pvp, when anyone who has been around knows that that isn't going to happen. we've done this before and nothing happened. why should this be any different? its like reminiscing to a recovering alcoholic about the good times you used to have when you used to get ****faced on the weekends. we're now at the point were community feedback and talking about the subject isn't the problem and action by the dev team, or lack there of, is the problem. and it has been for a long long time. so, again, whats the point of putting the pvp community through this same dog and pony show, something its already been through before, when there is almost nothing differently from the past and why should we be expecting a different outcome. I can understand your wanting to understand the pvp community and your empathy towards us, but no matter how constructive this thread gets, all it does is harm your pvp community when they know, you know, and the other devs know that nothing has been done, and there has yet to be anything to show that anything will be done. |
An official thread on PvP perspective. While I want to believe there is something that can be done, I wont be holding my breath. I am having a moment of dejavu. On to your questions in an attempt to be productive.
Over the years I have ran and participated in alot of events. Saturday Night Fights, Midnight PvP on Justice, Kickballs, random zone events, various tourneys I have held and just informal PvPing. I enjoyed PvP, and used to have so much fun with it. I didn't test league PvP, and to be honest over the last year or so I have barely PvPed period, except for the few events I ran and/or participated in.
As for my favorite moment. There are a few actually. On the Justice Server we had a Pentad Event sponsored by Justice Radio and the PvPEC, however this was very different from a 1 night event. We actually picked teams Night 1 and all rolled level 1's and fought. Then 2 weeks later we ran at level 17 then 2 weeks after at 27 then at 35 then 42. You get the picture. People leveled up these new toons together. Practiced together and had to form their own style and technique for each event. We kept a point tally every level of the event based on wins and losses. The event was alot of fun and my favorite part was all the people there every few weeks. We had alot of fun and it really allowed anyone to participate. We had alot of people that never PvPed and got alot of positive messages from that event. Some even still PvP today. This was before I-13 for those keeping score.
Another event was a Midnight PvP. I ran this event, Friday Nights on Justice from 9 pm Pacific to 12 am Pacific (12 am Eastern to 3 am Eastern) We had a night a few years back we we had about 35 or so people PvPing in RV. We had a Hero Villain war that was absolutely awesome. We would push to the villain base then the villains pushed back. This went on for a few hours. Alot of people I knew or that are my friends were there. Conflict, Lucas, Macskull, Smoke, MerryPraknster, JJ, Philly, JBO, Needlez and others. We had a few nights like this, Warburg was also alot of fun. Nothing like true FFA.
The underlining message is this. PvP in its current state pushes people away from PvP. Lack of tangible, realistic rewards does not give people incentive to PVP. The fact that PvP playes by very different rules then any other aspect of the game make the barrier to entry higher While the actual rules in effect makes PvP far to simple. See were I am going here, new people wont participate and experienced people are driven off. The lack of a sufficient playerbase enforces the lack of PvP growth compounding the previous reasons. All in all, revert the PvP changes and actually listen to the players this time. Not to beat a dead withered nearly dust pounded horse here, but players have been saying these things for years. I am not the first and wont be the last.
My favorite pvp moments where
- Fighting our way (dUmb) the infinity ladder, with our scrapper/tank team
- Meeting ABH and 13th sign in the arena for the first time and getting crushed, but learning more in 10 minutes then i had in 10 months
- Being able to type "/AC looking for a fight any takers?" on infinity and having multiple people reply
- Fighting ABH for the "infinity Title" the same night that they disbanded, and losing.
- Level 4 pvp on champion
- Going on test for the first time and benching myself for being bad bad bad
- Going on test for the second time and bringing my TA archery defender, which ended up doing better then expected
- Baseraiding on infinity
- Infinity Pentad ladder, which we did horribly in
- Fighting Pony Express and getting worked
- Getting eleventy billion kills on my stalker cause no one could move all of a sudden, cause of travel supression
- When some of the people that quit came back just to give issue 13+ another try
- Joining victory bootcamp and fighting the neferious Pimp hand
There you have it, my favorite pvp moments in this game, my favorite pvp moments outside usually involves some silly fighter game and alot of beer.
They aint victories mostly, even though those tend to be funner. Most of the time i learned alot more from losing.
My subscription ends in 4 days, its been a hell of a ride, but now the rollercoaster is just going straight, and it got dull.
Tychians
Like so many others my favorite pvp moments were pre I13. The speed of the game was fun. To be honest trying to think of anything to slow down that one super dominate player with my lowly pve build toon was fun. Since I mostly play tanks I found great fun in fighting hordes of npc's nd then getting ambushed by players, it was fun trying to survive.
All that being said I also think its fun if every AT or power set or even origin knows it can be dominated by another or dominate another... (hehe) at its "core". It would be nice to incorporate origins for more than just fluff.
But honestly thank you.
My motivation for being here and talking to you all is pretty simple: I want to understand the current PvP Community and the issues that are at the Core of your concerns with the system, as it stands right now.
As a CM my responsibility is twofold. I have to understand what the Community is saying and at the same time be able to juxtapose that against development needs and scheduling. To be frank, sometimes this sucks.
Some don't want to open discourse and invest yourselves in feedback because you don't want to risk being disappointed again. I get that.
I respect your your experience with the development of the game to this point and your right as those who have been there and done that to have that viewpoint. The only courtesy I ask is that if you chose to not believe that anything will come of it, please do not contribute to the conversation in a negative manner.
As all good discussion must have an beginning and an end, I'm going to go ahead and close this thread and start a new discussion. Thank you for everyone who has participated in this thread and know that you're, at the very least, helping your Community Team better represent your interests.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Like in PvE, blowing crap up gets more time, but puts markers on the map so the heroes know where villains are being destructive. Otherwise, heroes don't know where the villains are coming from.
The hero with the key shows up on the map clearly as an objective marker, so no hiding the key.
This puts the heroes on defensive -- thematically appropriate -- with strategic choices like who holds the key, where they set up shop, what percentage of the hero team stays with the key holder, how many go after rampaging villains in the streets.. Does anyone keep watch on the vault, to make sure the villains aren't securing that..
Villains get to decide whether they just go for a straight blitz after the keyholder then the vault in order, or if they try to set up their fight first. The overall situation favors the heroes slightly, but the villains get to have the initiative and decide where and when the fight happens.
Where do I sign up for this?
These are EXACTLY the kind of 'CTF' games I would love to see in-game.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45