The Most Anti-Team Character
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-02-24 14:18 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I've seen (and had) ninjas do that WITHOUT the "attack my target" command going...just in general aggressive/follow. For the longest time...i used a pass/att command and had them all gang up on one guy at a time...when they were done with him...target the next guy...lather rinse, repeat. worked great...till i got tired of hitting that bind all the time.
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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
If the teleporter's targeted and any pets were already given the "kill THIS guy" command, they'll do that; I saw my bots do that just the other day.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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On my sonic/energy defender, anyone who complains about KB gets sonic repulsion put on them with mag 17KB. I get kicked alot with that toon for some reason.
My Kinetic slots Speed Boost for speed. 
Typically, any stalker. I only see them make it onto teams when bodies are needed to start a 7-8 player tf.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Typically, any stalker. I only see them make it onto teams when bodies are needed to start a 7-8 player tf.
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So how is that anti-team behavior? Do they just run for the glowie and leave the team to fight with out them, or do they AS and then run until hidden turns back on? People over looking an AT is not anti-team behavior, and I have grouped with several stalkers that were better teammates then a lot of scrappers/brutes.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Isn't it curious that whenever one of these threads pop up, it always comes down to knockback? Oh, and phasing enemy powers take the runner up prize.
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As for phase it can be hard to tell what is phased, if only there was a bright neon sign saying phased or your attack being redirected if it lands on a phased target. Even more so, a way to break the phase when the team wants.
To me the most anti-team behavior are control freaks (not con/doms) on teams. I don't mind following a strategy, but when people have to try and tell a player every single thing to do, where to stand, and the order they activate powers, I end up leaving the group.
Dirges
While not the most anti-team character ever, a runner up goes to the Earth/Storm Controller I encountered tonight who possessed two unique powers so beloved to him that he was loathe to use anything else:
Gale off of Ice Slick
Spammed cages on top of Ice Slick
All of which might have been forgiveable. Had there not been THREE Ice Controller/Doms on the team.
[I should note he was but 1 of 4 different Earth Controllers/Doms encountered within a 5 hour period who had cage addiction. Seek help when your illicit habits lead to wanton death and teammates getting creamed by PPD.]
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You've been reading the "Stalker or Scrap?" thread, haven't you? |
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Typically, any stalker. I only see them make it onto teams when bodies are needed to start a 7-8 player tf.
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According to some of those guys, Stalkers are apparently utterly useless on teams. Total slackers. The most worthless piles of gimp in the entire history of gimpishness.
Why, you ask?
Because (*gasp*) they have lower cap HP than Scraps and don't do quite as much AoE DPS.
The shame...
The horror...
Oh, the HUMANITY!
Personally, I think that's a load of bull. My own stalkers do pretty well when I team with them, even if they're not quite as "good" as Scraps... But I like the sneaky little jerks, so maybe I'm blind to my own hopelessly-broken-AT suffering or something.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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The Door Sitter/Leech falls in the category of anti-team player, I'd say, rather than anti-team character. To be an anti-team character, IMHO, it needs to be a powerset that is hard to mesh with team operations even with a good player. |
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Isn't it curious that whenever one of these threads pop up, it always comes down to knockback? Oh, and phasing enemy powers take the runner up prize.
My vote is for the Door Sitter/Leech and Auto Fire/Perma Follow powersets. |
One time when running paper missions, so pretty straightforward stuff, I had a humanform Peacebringer join the team who used a lot of knockback powers. No other changes in team or missions were made, it was a large team, and just adding his character slowed down getting through spawns and missions significantly, at least 20%. He was a nice enough player, and nobody on the team was all that focused on XP speed, so it wasn't a big issue but I did find the contrast rather noticable.
Thats not so much a reflection of the evilness of knockback as it is the almost abusive efficiency of AoE damage, debuffs, etc. in the game. Anything that reduces AoE efficiency reduces kill speed, and with PbAoE radial knockback like the Peacebringer had its pretty hard to knock things into a corner to increase team efficiency, no matter how good the player. Playing my grav controller I've struggled with that issue with Wormhole as well, its relatively rare that I can find geometry that lets me use it without messing up the tanks taunt aura, the blaster running in for Fire Sword Circle or a nuke, etc.
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Originally Posted by Bright
You've been reading the "Stalker or Scrap?" thread, haven't you?
According to some of those guys, Stalkers are apparently utterly useless on teams. Total slackers. The most worthless piles of gimp in the entire history of gimpishness. Why, you ask? Because (*gasp*) they have lower cap HP than Scraps and don't do quite as much AoE DPS. The shame... The horror... Oh, the HUMANITY! Personally, I think that's a load of bull. My own stalkers do pretty well when I team with them, even if they're not quite as "good" as Scraps... But I like the sneaky little jerks, so maybe I'm blind to my own hopelessly-broken-AT suffering or something. |
Derangedpolyglot may have read the stalker vs scrapper thread but you just proved that you didn't read it - or you didn't understand it. The primary conclusion in that thread was that most folks would invite whichever player asked first to their group and pretty much ignore the AT, other than to note that it filled a damage dealing slot.
Yes, there was a lot of discussion about how a scrapper with the same powersets came out somewhat ahead of a stalker due to the higher HP, higher base damage and better AoE choices (in most cases) and a few posters tried to portray that discussion as a 'stalkers suck' rant but that wasn't the primary discussion, just a very long sideline. Only a few folks said they would not take a stalker on a team and most of those pointed to bad player behavior (sneaking ahead of the team and dragging aggro/getting killed, AS'ing then running and waiting to AS again,etc) as the primary reason.
Back to the OP's original question, it seems to me that based on my experience and most of the posts here that there is no such thing as an anti-team character, just anti-team players. All the 'anti-team' activities I have seen are power choices and how you use them, not a specific AT or powerset. You can have an earth/storm troller who keeps hurricane on all the times, randomly and frequently throws out tornado's and fires off gale at the start of every fight, spreading out the enemies before the other AoE's hit. Alternatively, the same earth/storm controller can be dropping quicksand as the mobs gather around the tank to keep them from fleeing, locking things down with volcanic gasses or stalagmites, dropping thunderstorms above the mobs with hover so the KB knocks them down rather than away and keeping the mobs he hasn't locked down on their buts with earthquake and freezing rain.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Any character with Group Teleport and Phase Shift.
Ask if the team is ready. If you get no response within five seconds, use group teleport to force the team to get into the action. Surprise! Then, phase shift and type /e teabag. Watch how quickly you get kicked.
You could also be Grav/Kin and use Wormhole a lot, and also throw lots of Increase Density around without applying SB.
The Ballad of Iron Percy
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Nope.|
Originally Posted by Bright
You've been reading the "Stalker or Scrap?" thread, haven't you?
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Originally Posted by EricHough
Derangedpolyglot may have read the stalker vs scrapper thread but you just proved that you didn't read it - or you didn't understand it.
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Stalkers are, by design, built to go solo--'anti-team'. They're not actually detrimental to the team, but they still get a bad rap.
*shrug* It's usually a scrapper or brute that runs off alone and spawns unwanted ambushes and gets themselves--or the the whole team--killed.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Actually, I did read it and understood it just fine, thanks. My post, if you didn't notice, was posted with tongue firmly in cheek. |
Originally Posted by EricHough
Derangedpolyglot may have read the stalker vs scrapper thread but you just proved that you didn't read it - or you didn't understand it. The primary conclusion in that thread was that most folks would invite whichever player asked first to their group and pretty much ignore the AT, other than to note that it filled a damage dealing slot.
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I like stalkers. I play them often myself, and team with others who do as well. I just find it funny when those threads come up (and they do pretty often-) how adamant some posters are about their "brokenness".
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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Same as me.
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Originally Posted by Dirges
To me the most anti-team behavior are control freaks (not con/doms) on teams. I don't mind following a strategy, but when people have to try and tell a player every single thing to do, where to stand, and the order they activate powers, I end up leaving the group. |
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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I don't see how stalkers are designed to go solo any more then scrappers, brutes, veats, or MMs. Really with less health they are worst soloers. Could you elaborate.
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Nope.
I didn't read it. Stalkers are, by design, built to go solo--'anti-team'. They're not actually detrimental to the team, but they still get a bad rap. *shrug* It's usually a scrapper or brute that runs off alone and spawns unwanted ambushes and gets themselves--or the the whole team--killed. |
Dirges
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My apologies then - my sarcasm meter must have been broken this morning.
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Originally Posted by Bright
Actually, I did read it and understood it just fine, thanks. My post, if you didn't notice, was posted with tongue firmly in cheek.
I like stalkers. I play them often myself, and team with others who do as well. I just find it funny when those threads come up (and they do pretty often-) how adamant some posters are about their "brokenness". |
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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They have a built in "run to the mish objective and complete it" power in every secondary. They also have AS to take out any bosses they want, and placate to eliminate the next biggest threat faster. On a team, they deal only (for the most part) single target damage, and don't kill multiple things as fast as scrappers, brutes, veats, or MMs as you gave as examples.
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Originally Posted by Dirges
I don't see how stalkers are designed to go solo any more then scrappers, brutes, veats, or MMs. Really with less health they are worst soloers. Could you elaborate.
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No worries... Tone over the internet, and all that. |
Originally Posted by EricHough
My apologies then - my sarcasm meter must have been broken this morning.
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@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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I go with that one. People who have their 'perfect' play style idea and expect each and every other person to conform to it.
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Originally Posted by Dirges
To me the most anti-team behavior are control freaks (not con/doms) on teams. I don't mind following a strategy, but when people have to try and tell a player every single thing to do, where to stand, and the order they activate powers, I end up leaving the group.
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Stealth + AS = meanest mob in each group down before the fight starts.|
Originally Posted by Dirges
I don't see how stalkers are designed to go solo any more then scrappers, brutes, veats, or MMs. Really with less health they are worst soloers. Could you elaborate.
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Uber stealth ( zero end cost, only one power no IO needed) allows for sneaking to the end easyer.
My Plant/Storm controller is called "Maximum Chaos".
My Storm/Energy Defender is called "The Pinball Machine".
Work it out ^_^
As an aside, one of my scrappers does have Team Teleport, and it's hilarious every time I use it. The number of people who, apparently, have never encountered it is astounding. I remember back in the old days having it 6-slotted for range. Good times.
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Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
They have a built in "run to the mish objective and complete it" power in every secondary. They also have AS to take out any bosses they want, and placate to eliminate the next biggest threat faster. On a team, they deal only (for the most part) single target damage, and don't kill multiple things as fast as scrappers, brutes, veats, or MMs as you gave as examples.
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Originally Posted by _Zep_
Stealth + AS = meanest mob in each group down before the fight starts.
Uber stealth ( zero end cost, only one power no IO needed) allows for sneaking to the end easyer. |
Stealthing to target is not the best way to solo IMHO, you miss out on most of the xp in a mission. I have always found killing large groups with less health better soloing. Faster kills, more reward rolls, and less risk. Besides I have a brute that can stealth missions better, yeah it requires superspeed, but their cloak doesn't suppress.
Also you can't kill bosses in one hit. AS does about 734 damage, with about 1098 with build up at 50, lieuts have 857 health and bosses 2570. A stalker needs build up just to kill a lieut, and AS doesn't take the boss below half health and neither of you mentioned using BU. No need to exaggerate things, especially since if the mentioned bonuses are so good solo, they would also be great on a group.
Dirges
I love stalkers, I generally finish my tip missions for the day in 20-30m. They are horrid to level as they deal less damage and have less protection than scrappers and the other lesser melees...
Stalkers take down everything Boss or lower solo faster than any other AT. That means that in a group their goal is to take out the troublemaker. Unfortunately blasters especially complain that they don't contribute because they only take down one target at a time. But, if it's the right target...
Stalkers are the best solo AT out there. Unfortunately they have limits v AVs especially, but also for leveling in general.
Also, while Sonic or FF without the ally res/def buffs works well solo, they are also good on teams, but in general people complain that you don't have them even though you are contributing in different ways by not taking those powers which kill solo viability...
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Something here isn't adding up. |
Originally Posted by Beelzy
I love stalkers, I generally finish my tip missions for the day in 20-30m. They are horrid to level... Stalkers take down everything Boss or lower solo faster than any other AT... Stalkers are the best solo AT out there. Unfortunately they have limits... but also for leveling in general.
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What are you talking about? Losing two powers and four or six slots does not kill solo viability.
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Originally Posted by Beelzy
Also, while Sonic or FF without the ally res/def buffs works well solo, they are also good on teams, but in general people complain that you don't have them even though you are contributing in different ways by not taking those powers which kill solo viability...
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Isn't it curious that whenever one of these threads pop up, it always comes down to knockback? Oh, and phasing enemy powers take the runner up prize.
My vote is for the Door Sitter/Leech and Auto Fire/Perma Follow powersets.