Boost regen or softcap defenses for WP?


all_hell

 

Posted

I finally got my Axe/WP brute to lvl 50 and I'm now trying to plan out a build that's not too expensive. I've seen some builds that soft-cap S/L def, but they always involve using the very expensive (for me) Kinetic Combat set.

Willpower, on it's own, gives some defense, some resistance and healing. So, I'm wondering if I should enhance regen and max HP instead of defense. Would builds that focus on regen be too far behind one that soft-caps S/L Def? I know that the latter is very strong, but I'm thinking that it might be overkill, given that WP already gives you regen and some resistance.

Would I be able to run missions at X8 with a regen-focused build?


 

Posted

Defense is always the better option. I'm not saying that a regen focused build will not be able to run x8 missions, though.

Simply put: When RttC gives you 70 HP/second or more, what's another 2 from a set bonus? Defense, however, gives you better returns the more you obtain.

The long explanation is to do the math yourself, check out my Survivability Analysis tool linked in my signature. You can do the numbers for yourself and see how much benefit you get out of what kind of slotting.


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Posted

Well, if you're willing to use Kinetic Combats, they're your best option. They give both HP and defense bonuses.


[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]

 

Posted

Defense.

Soft capped WP is a steamroller. On steroids.Using jet fuel. (don't ask how it's possible. Just know that it is.)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LygerZero View Post
Soft capped WP is a steamroller. On steroids.Using jet fuel.
truth.


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@Caucasiafro

 

Posted

Defense also boosts regen, just indirectly, and you can get a helluva lot more of it than regen.

Because I like to illustrate with math, here's some random numbers:

At 0% defense, you're getting hit with 50 DPS (100 DPS with a 50% chance to miss). Your regen with RttC is something like 60 HPS, so your net regen is 10 HPS.

At 25% defense, you're getting hit with 25 DPS (100 DPS with a 75% chance to miss). Same regen with RttC, but your net is now 35 HPS. Stack regen set bonuses all you want, you just can't increase it by those numbers. And because you're taking less damage, you can fight more enemies at once, which increases RttC even more (well, up to 10 at least) and makes you that much more awesome.

That said, after you've got a reasonable amount of defense (around 25% is where you really start noticing a difference in survivability), throwing in a few +HP and +regen bonuses certainly do contribute.

Pulling together sets of Kinetic Combat is time-consuming, but not terribly difficult these days due to a-merits. And it's so very worth it.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

I'd suggest you build for Hit points and then plan to repec into a Defense build later. Building up your hitpoints allows you to much better take advantage of the regen from willpower and not waste your time with regen set bonuses. Willpower really benefits from almost any IO investment and is a great toon to build up overtime as you play it.


 

Posted

If you have Going Rogue, you can get your Kinetic Combats cheaply.

-The proc is usually cheap. Many people don't want to use it though, which is WHY it's cheap.
-Two of the non-proc pieces are usually not too expensive on the market.
-The other two cost a total of 3 or 4 Alignment Merits. Speed run tips on the lowest difficulty on as many characters as you can every day. If you can do 5 characters a day, you can get those 10 expensive IOs for free in just over a week. If you can't devote that much time, but have a stockpile of regular Merits, you can use some of those to help speed things up.


@Roderick

 

Posted

For many, if not most, situations, the def will help you more. However, since WP has no def debuff res, when the def doesn't help you more, you'll REALLY see it.

I have run a WP slotted for regen and HP and one slotted for def. When the defense debuffs start landing, they bring more defense debuffs with them. When I see my def go into negative numbers, I wish for my regen build instead.
Of course, there're mobs who can floor your regen as well.

But, generally, the +def is more helpful in more situations--but not all.

So get as much of each as you can muster.
But remember that purple inspirations cost the same a green ones, but they last for 60sec and teh green ones are gone right away.
That's how I ran my regen build--I kept a wakie, a break free, two oranges, two yellows and the rest purples. I ate purples like mad all the time. It worked well enough.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Defense also boosts regen, just indirectly, and you can get a helluva lot more of it than regen.

Because I like to illustrate with math, here's some random numbers:

At 0% defense, you're getting hit with 50 DPS (100 DPS with a 50% chance to miss). Your regen with RttC is something like 60 HPS, so your net regen is 10 HPS.

At 25% defense, you're getting hit with 25 DPS (100 DPS with a 75% chance to miss). Same regen with RttC, but your net is now 35 HPS. Stack regen set bonuses all you want, you just can't increase it by those numbers. And because you're taking less damage, you can fight more enemies at once, which increases RttC even more (well, up to 10 at least) and makes you that much more awesome.

That said, after you've got a reasonable amount of defense (around 25% is where you really start noticing a difference in survivability), throwing in a few +HP and +regen bonuses certainly do contribute.

Pulling together sets of Kinetic Combat is time-consuming, but not terribly difficult these days due to a-merits. And it's so very worth it.
On top of that, defense helps regen by giving you more time to let the regen get you back up to full. If you have no defense, you'lll be taking a constant stream of damage, but with defense, you will get hit, go a while with no hits, then hit and so on and so forth. Those times with no hits allows your regen to get used to its full advantage, since defense and resistance get better the higher percent of damage, but regen is based on your hp per second. Defense gives more seconds.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
... since WP has no def debuff res, ...
just a nit pick, but WP DOES have DDR. 17.3 (from Heightened Senses).



Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Pine_ View Post
just a nit pick, but WP DOES have DDR. 17.3 (from Heightened Senses).
trudat


 

Posted

Thanks for the pointers, guys!

So I should get at least SOME defense, at least 20% for now? I'll consider soft-capping to be something I'll get to in the mid to long term.

Since I'm using Battle Axe, which already has knockdown in many of the attacks, will the Kinetic Combat chance to knockdown send the foes flying away from me?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by passerby View Post
So I should get at least SOME defense, at least 20% for now? I'll consider soft-capping to be something I'll get to in the mid to long term.
Get however much will fit w/o giving up your other essentials and w/o breaking your bank.
For WP in particular, getting to within one small purple inspiration of softcap is very nice. 32.5% feels good and when necessary you can eat a purple and be @ 45%. Generally, 32.5 % is easier and cheaper to come by w/o making sacrifices.
All def is good and to a point more is better. so 20% is fine. W/e you can get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by passerby View Post
Since I'm using Battle Axe, which already has knockdown in many of the attacks, will the Kinetic Combat chance to knockdown send the foes flying away from me?
If it activated at the same time and if the foe was vulnerable to it, then yes it could.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by passerby View Post
Since I'm using Battle Axe, which already has knockdown in many of the attacks, will the Kinetic Combat chance to knockdown send the foes flying away from me?
In general, you shouldn't care because you shouldn't slot that one. Go with a damage proc from another set, or two triples or something. The last bonus in Kinietic Combat is meaningless, so you only want 4 of them, and of the 4 that proc is the least valuable.

On the other hand it is also the cheapest, but I only slot it into set mules like brawl and boxing.


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Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

Yeah, the downside to Kinetic Combat is that it's level 35, so even if you use all 4 enhancement IOs from it, you still wind up with suboptimal buffs. You really want to use all 4 enhancement IOs in attacks you'll be using regularly, then supplement them with high-grade IOs.

More numbers:
All 4 Kinetic Combat:
Accuracy 22.94%
Damage 85.45%
Endurance Reduction 41.29%
Recharge 41.29%

If you add Focused Smite Acc/End/Rech and Mako's Bite Acc/Dam/End/Rech, you get:
Accuracy 60.79%
Damage 95.86%
Endurance Reduction 78.22%
Recharge 78.22%

Unless you're slotting other set IOs for global accuracy and can take a single additional Dam/End/Rech, or you're simply willing to settle for low enhancement numbers, you can't fit a proc into that.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

For my own stone/wp brute I went for as much +hp and enough defense to feel comfortable without breaking the bank. So now I sit around 2700 hp and 30-35% defense to all types. I also run darkest night and almost nothing can stop me.


@Injenius~Virtue
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Posted

4 Kinetic Combats + 1 Nuc HO (or a franken IO) makes for a nice set of stats.

using the KB proc of it is a cheap idea, and I've done it for a filler at one point for when the triple wasnt available, but if you play a toon whose primary has knockdown to it, you'll knock them back when they both check off.

Most builds (cept my KM) I only manage to fit 5 slots into it. KM is the only one I found for 6, and I proc'd the 6th slot after the above slotting idea.

they're expensive, but worth it. I love my claws/WP. Sitting at 45% defense (note: using the 3% PvE IO and the 3% PvP IO.) and it's a friggin monster.


 

Posted

If you don't want to take damage and you just care about SURVIVABILITY (pffft), then defense is the way to go. BUT... if you want to be IMMORTAL (take 100,000,000 damage)... regen all the way! Now THAT's a badge you can wear with pride. This strategy has the side benefit of very likely earning you the Exalted badge (pay off 1,000,000 debt), but some people prefer to keep that second badge in their dresser drawers.

After your deityhood is confirmed, though, consider respeccing into some defense.


 

Posted

Well, I blew some merit points and alignment points I've squirreled away to buy the kinetic combats and together with Weave and Combat Jump, I now have 36% s/l defence. It's working fabulously. With the level shift, the level 50 minions are blue, so I am even closer to the softcap with them.