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Originally Posted by Pauljima
...three other kinds of defense (melee/ranged/aoe). If you get the latter 3 up to soft cap (45% right?), do the others matter?
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Nope, the To-Hit algorithm always choose the best defense, so just getting those three up to the soft cap (or close, or beyond it) means you're good.
SR actually does have some sliding resists, but that doesn't change the Defense part of it. Melee/Ranged/AoE is all you need.
There are a few psychic type attacks that do not have a positional tag. SR won't have any defense against those.
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Nearly all attacks have at least two flags, one for the type (or types) of damage it deals (S/L/E/N/F/C/Psi) and one for the position (Melee/Range/AOE). Positional defenses are more powerful as they cover all attacks in the game... with the exception of a tiny handful of Psi attacks that lack a positional flag and the infamous Hamidon damage that lacks any defense flags and punches through all resistance. Come to think of it Toxic damage may ignore positional defense also... I know there's no typed defense to Toxic. I don't think I've ever checked that on either of my Shield characters.|
Originally Posted by Pauljima
So there're the 7 types of defense (smash/leth/fire/cold/energy/neg/psi)... and then there's the three other kinds of defense (melee/ranged/aoe). If you get the latter 3 up to soft cap (45% right?), do the others matter? Wouldn't they also be covered by the latter 3?
Thinking of rollin' a /Super Reflexes brute and I can easily softcap melee/ranged/aoe... but it would kind of require having mediocre numbers for the other 7. It'd be pretty awesome to be perpetually softcapped with defense. Though for SR, it seems resistance is virtually nil. =P Any insight would be awesome... |
A character who's softcapped to all three positional defenses won't gain a thing from typed defenses except for the extremely rare Psi attack that lacks a position flag. SR actually gets fairly substantial resistances tied to the HP bar... as you get below 50% you start picking up resistance assuming you have the passives. It starts small but it ramps up to significant amounts below 20% health.
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Hmmm, ok, so SR eventually gets the coverage from both res/def? Pretty cool... I'm looking to roll a SS/SR brute. Still looking for that one toon I can have that I can depend on. Good survivability and dishes out the pain. Any suggestions on builds? My build is based on some other SS/SR builds I've seen... got my three defenses up to 46/47% without Elude. =)
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I'm only familiar with SR in a theoretical fashion... I've never played one past 25 and I've never gotten a SS character into the teens. Still, I don't think you'll be disappointed in the durability once you soft cap and SR is all but immune to defense debuffs; if you take all the defenses (but Elude) and slot them you'll have 95% resistance to defense debuffs. That's SR's biggest advantage over other def sets.|
Originally Posted by Pauljima
Hmmm, ok, so SR eventually gets the coverage from both res/def? Pretty cool... I'm looking to roll a SS/SR brute. Still looking for that one toon I can have that I can depend on. Good survivability and dishes out the pain. Any suggestions on builds? My build is based on some other SS/SR builds I've seen... got my three defenses up to 46/47% without Elude. =)
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Even though SR does get scaling resistance as the health goes down I'd treat that as a bonus instead of something I'd rely on... when the HP bar turns yellow (or red) I'd be munching on greens or hitting Aid Self.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I don't think there is a single toxic attack without a Positional attack type - it's kind of the balance to some psy attacks lacking positional.
And most of the psy attacks that lack positional are mezzes, so it's not too bad.
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There are a few non-psionic powers which do not have a melee/ranged/aoe attack vector, but they're much more uncommon (Fearsome Stare is an example, which only has Negative_Attack).|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
with the exception of a tiny handful of Psi attacks that lack a positional flag and the infamous Hamidon damage that lacks any defense flags and punches through all resistance. Come to think of it Toxic damage may ignore positional defense also... I know there's no typed defense to Toxic. I don't think I've ever checked that on either of my Shield characters.
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Hamidon's attacks are also not the only powers without attack vectors. Fulcrum Shift has no attack vector, for example.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Originally Posted by Pauljima
Still looking for that one toon I can have that I can depend on. Good survivability and dishes out the pain. Any suggestions on builds? My build is based on some other SS/SR builds I've seen... got my three defenses up to 46/47% without Elude. =)
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/Willpower is still the tough brute set for many players, if that's what you mean by "can depend on." I'm not sure how to slot it but I see a lot of players using it. Invulnerability is still considered good too, I believe.
Might want to tell us how you expect to "depend" on this character, we might be able to give you a bit more advice.
Ah, well actually I have two brutes at 50 with /willpower. I love that secondary. I just wanna try something new. I'm kind of torn between /Inv and /SR...
I just find myself with brute-envy from time to time when I see other toons that can stand in a mob of bosses and go afk without any problems, lol. SS looks fun and smashy, love the screen shake I get with my stone/stone brute... I think SS would be a blast too. I hear good things about Rage, so I wanna give it a shot (my previous SS/ didn't make it very far before I scrapped him and went with something else).
So I understand SS is one of the best primaries for brutes that just wanna hurt people... So I'm looking for the secondary that will best prevent me from getting hurt, heh.
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You're not looking for softcapped defense then; you're looking for layered mitigation.|
Originally Posted by Pauljima
I just find myself with brute-envy from time to time when I see other toons that can stand in a mob of bosses and go afk without any problems, lol.
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Super Reflexes has little to no resistance, depending on your scaling resists, and the presence of Tough. As such, 5% of attacks aimed at you hit and deal full damage. Attacks from lieutenants and bosses have a slightly higher chance to hit you, as do attacks that have accuracy bonuses. Unresistable defense debuffs are your bane (I'm looking at you, Earth Thorn Casters). And those council bosses who Eagle's Claw you? 10% chance to hit, huge damage, and a high chance to crit -- I regularly take 900 points of damage from them if I let them live more that a few seconds. Super Reflexes cannot survive while AFK, it needs active mitigation through the primary to slow down the incoming attacks, because some of them will get through, and a run of bad luck will kill you.
A character with a mix of two or more of defense, resist, +HP, heals, mez, or debuff will be exponentially stronger than a character that only has one. That's why Stone Armor is so durable - it combines high defense, good resists, +regen, and a heal/+max HP power. Likewise, Invulnerability combines good defense with high resists and a heal/+Max HP power, so it can reach levels of survivability similar to Stone.
Willpower has an unusual mix of resistance to some attacks and defense to others, plus a huge pile of regeneration. However, with the right power selections, it can become as durable as Stone and Invulnerability. And all three of them can become even stronger through the selection of the right Set bonuses.
Super Reflexes, on the other hand, remains a one-trick pony. It's really, really good at that one trick, but it's not enough to become an AFK-tank. It needs active mitigation.
Remember: "Through over-specialization we breed in weakness".
@Roderick
Hmmm... Good to know. Then maybe I'll start working on an /inv build. Do you know what kind of numbers I should aim for in regards to def and resist when planning out IO sets? I know s/l will be well-covered, but for the rest? Should I even bother to try to compensate for the lacking psi protection?
Just a thought:
Why not try /Dark? If you already have two 50's, and you know the game, why not try something more challenging? Sure /Dark starts out weak (relatively) but I understand with IOs it can be made quite scary.
Thinking here of something that might be more fun for an experienced player.
Mainly because I already have a theme brute of dark/dark. =)
Hmm, ok. Again just asking: why not /Sheild? It has +HP, resists, defense, and a cool shield. I don't know how well this IOs, but it's a bit different than other sets too.
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With the scrapper/brute numbers on Inv you'll need a good bit more work to soft cap defenses than with an Inv tanker but the basics from my soft cap Invuln guide are a starting point. If you're intending to get 45% S/L defense (and I would recommend it) you're probably looking at a few sets of the expensive Kinetic Combat to get there; the Smashing Haymaker set won't get you enough bonus unless you can slot a lot of them.|
Originally Posted by Pauljima
Hmmm... Good to know. Then maybe I'll start working on an /inv build. Do you know what kind of numbers I should aim for in regards to def and resist when planning out IO sets? I know s/l will be well-covered, but for the rest? Should I even bother to try to compensate for the lacking psi protection?
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I doubt you'll be able to soft cap E/N/F/C defense without badly compromising the rest of your build but S/L defense will protect you from better than 75% of incoming damage due to the prevalence of that damage type and the fact that most E/N/F/C attacks also have a S/L component.
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Hmmm, so what kind of numbers have you seen that were possible on ss/in brutes? For me it's looking like low 20s on def and resist and 70+ on s/l. Seems good but also seems like it could be better... Any guide/build suggestions?
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Originally Posted by Pauljima
Hmmm, so what kind of numbers have you seen that were possible on ss/in brutes? For me it's looking like low 20s on def and resist and 70+ on s/l. Seems good but also seems like it could be better... Any guide/build suggestions?
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Okay, on straight SO's, or common IOs, SS is "okay".
Typed defenses all cap out around 29% with maximum enemies in range.
Resists for S/L are 90%+ and low 30's for everything else.
It's possible, with well-chosen sets, to softcap an SS/Inv to S/L/E/N/F/C. This route can be somewhat expensive.
A slightly more economical path would be to softcap S/L (the most common damage type in the game) and bring the other defense types up a bit more (but not to softcap). This gives you roughly 80-90% of the durability (as most attacks have at least SOME S/L component), and you can make up the difference with inspies on the occasions you fight those flinging pure E/N/F/C attacks.
Resists don't really get much higher though.
Most of the time your defenses keep you perfectly safe.
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Hmmm, okay... so keeping that in mind, I've altered my SS/Inv build slightly. Can you give me your opinions on this?
Also, I've got about 2 bill saved up, so I'm willing to dip into that a little bit ('cause it'll be a good while before I have this toon to 50)... As is, it's an affordable build for me, just wondering what you might do to push it over the top? Good to have goals, after all... =)
And thanks for all your input, everyone. I'm getting pretty close to rolling this toon with confidence. =)
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So there're the 7 types of defense (smash/leth/fire/cold/energy/neg/psi)... and then there's the three other kinds of defense (melee/ranged/aoe). If you get the latter 3 up to soft cap (45% right?), do the others matter? Wouldn't they also be covered by the latter 3?
Thinking of rollin' a /Super Reflexes brute and I can easily softcap melee/ranged/aoe... but it would kind of require having mediocre numbers for the other 7.
It'd be pretty awesome to be perpetually softcapped with defense. Though for SR, it seems resistance is virtually nil. =P
Any insight would be awesome...