Game Stopping Bug for Masterminds
By
bpphantom,
Posted on: 2011-02-08 23:34 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
a simple /release_pets usually clears this up
and i think this bug has been here and there since i18 at least
its not really simple though. I was doing an LGTF the other evening and we waited at the entrance for a stealther to get to the end and tp us all since it was late and people wanted to finish.
I notice i've TPd and only a few pets have come, so I use my regular dissmiss All command I have bound for emergencies, incase the others are charging across the map agroing everything.
I Try to resummon and only get back the 2 pets that did come with me for the TP, 1 Tier1 and 1 Tier 2. While the team engage the AV.
And now i'm in a bad siuation, all my pet powers are recharging, so I'm down on damage and agro control with only 2 pets out. By the time they are recharged 1 AV is down, Hero1 is almost down and I feel like a leech on the last mission.
I know a stealth and tp to the end is a fringe case, but its still an annoying as hell bug to have to ressummon in a the mission, I hate resummoning at all in a mission, it seems to drop my pace a little.
I've changed my dissmiss bind to th erelease bind now, I should have done it ages ago, since it does the same thing, but only one fixes the bug. This and pets charging into melee when told to stay out of it really anoy me!
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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I think the easiest way to overcome this bug at present is to play MMs old school style, ie summoning after entering at the start of missions, then dismissing them at end of missions before exiting. Try to avoid zoning into open map zones and missions with them summoned.
http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
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LIES and HERESY! The petless masterminds out there will argue that while they may not be the corridor-clogging scattered aggro machines that their counterparts are, they are quite effective.
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Originally Posted by Rial_Vestro
Basically this means that you're a Mastermind with no pets and a Mastermind with no pets is completely useless.
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@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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This. The first time I zoned and lost control (about a week after being able to zone with them at all) I just fell back on the way I was used to and still do it that way unless I'm expecting an entrance/exit ambush.|
Originally Posted by Scene_EU
I think the easiest way to overcome this bug at present is to play MMs old school style, ie summoning after entering at the start of missions, then dismissing them at end of missions before exiting. Try to avoid zoning into open map zones and missions with them summoned.
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This bug really seems to be related to how fast you zone. Since the game kills off your original pets and re-creates them on the other side, I think that they sometimes arrive before you and become orphaned. I zone fairly fast and rarely have this issue whereas friends of mine get it quite often and are generally much slower at zoning.
Jusa grammar nitpick, but the word is "SINCE." "Sense" is an ability that allows us to perceive the world, such as sight, hearing, taste, touch, and smell. "Sense" is also the ability to make sound decisions. "Since;" however, implies a passage of time.
Also, yeah... I've reported that bug a couple times myself. It's annoying, but it isn't as irritating as the elevator bug was as this mostly occurs in places where I don't need my pets.
Although there is that occasional outside instance....
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I hear that allot in game but don't you think that would be first thing I'd try. It was in my original post here and all 4 of the bug reports. Pets can't be dismissed. It makes them drop from your pet window but I found after doing this they remain at the zone entrance not moving. Because they're actually still active when you try to re-summon them the power reads that they're already out and fails making it impossible. |
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
a simple /release_pets usually clears this up
and i think this bug has been here and there since i18 at least |
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Originally Posted by bpphantom
LIES and HERESY! The petless masterminds out there will argue that while they may not be the corridor-clogging scattered aggro machines that their counterparts are, they are quite effective.
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Pet-less MMs are like noob Tankers who try to be DMG dealers rather than meat shields and wander why they die so much. Except that Tankers still have the highest HP in the game which means they can still last for a while in a fight even if they're built like Scrappers. Masterminds on the other hand don't even have their HP to fall back on with a lack of pets. The very instant a Mastermind ends up in a position where they can't summon they get killed. I've had this happen many times, mainly in AV fights when the AV catches up to me while I'm recharging.
Now that same pet-less MM I killed with my pets and many others like him seem convinced that the summoner is capable of inflicting more DMG then the combined efforts of their 6 pets. Now how does that math work? You have 1 guy with 3 attacks of his own, maybe more depending on secondary powers vs. 6 guys who will always have more attack potential than their summoner. Maybe if you were doing to math when compared only to your tiar 1 pets with no upgrades then you'd be right because they're actually really weak at that stage. All 6 pets fully upgraded and your math sucks. 6 is always greater than 1. And really it's actually 7 vs. 1 because I like to fight along side my pets. The only reason why I didn't during that PvP match was because our agreement was that I wouldn't fight back if he could even get close enough to me to fight me at all. As our agreement stood I was only allowed to send pets in to attack him and not use any of my own attacks or personal shields, just him vs. my pets and as I predicted, I didn't need any of my own powers because he never got passed my pets.
if you manually dismiss them then they disappear from the pet window but dont actually dismiss
the /release_pets is like a kill command which kills all pets under your control (it even gets rid of ouroboros portals and anything else that goes into the pet window from what i seen)
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I'm pretty sure you didn't try it. People complaining about this bug never do -- even when they say they are.|
Originally Posted by Rial_Vestro
I hear that allot in game but don't you think that would be first thing I'd try. It was in my original post here and all 4 of the bug reports. Pets can't be dismissed. It makes them drop from your pet window but I found after doing this they remain at the zone entrance not moving. Because they're actually still active when you try to re-summon them the power reads that they're already out and fails making it impossible.
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/release_pets forcibly dismisses them. Any other method merely asks the pets to dismiss themselves, which, since the pets are bugged, doesn't work.
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Yes, you will get that if you *dismiss* them. |
Originally Posted by Rial_Vestro
I hear that allot in game but don't you think that would be first thing I'd try. It was in my original post here and all 4 of the bug reports. Pets can't be dismissed. It makes them drop from your pet window but I found after doing this they remain at the zone entrance not moving. Because they're actually still active when you try to re-summon them the power reads that they're already out and fails making it impossible.
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/releasepets (put in the underscore if you want,/release_pets) does something totally different. It forcibly "kills" them and wipes them from the server listing, as well. In fact, if you're a /traps MM and have any other "pets" out (such as your FFG, Acid Mortar or Seeker Drones - anything that shows up in the "pets" window) it will "kill" them as well. So don't be in combat when you use it - back off. (Yes, a release does this as well, I know.)
(Visibly telling the difference - if the pets immediately disappear from the pet window, you've dismissed and your resummons will be bugged. If the pets "die" - you have a list of black-named dead pets that take a few seconds to vanish - you've used /releasepets and your new summons will work.)
Yes, it's irritating. Yes, it needs to be fixed, as I doubt most MMs know about this command. But /releasepets does work to wipe the slate clean and let you resummon pets under your control.
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Originally Posted by Rial_Vestro
Pet less Masterminds are noobs that don't know the first thing about a Mastermind.
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I'd be a little more confident in things like following the directions you were given and knowing the difference between dismiss and /releasepets before I went around calling other players "noobs."
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Right and next you're going to tell me there's a difference between manually changing a pet to aggressive and typing out /petcom_all Aggressive. It's the same command one way is just faster than the other depending on your key binds. I happen to have all the slash commands binded to my numpad so I don't have to manually or otherwise type out the commands every time I use them or even use the 3 commands MMs come with that fill up power slots. It doesn't make one bit of difference what version of the command you use, they all do the same thing.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I'd be a little more confident in things like following the directions you were given and knowing the difference between dismiss and /releasepets before I went around calling other players "noobs."
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The only real work around someone suggested is to avoid zoning with the pets summoned in the first place. I've noticed some other Masterminds doing this mainly to avoid the weakened pets from being SKed to a higher level then when they were originally summoned. (LKing down will kill them off automatically because you can't have pets higher level than you are but you can have pets who are lower level than you are.)
And believe me, I know all the commands and what they do as I have 7 MMs and have been addicted to MMs sense CoV beta. Even the dismiss command will get rid of all pets in the window that aren't pets. Dismiss happens to be the only command that non-MM pets can respond to as all pets, MM or not, have a Dismiss command function. That's why Acid Moderator, FFG, ect can be dismissed with the same command.
Mmm...
I just got about every flavor of MM one could conceive, and the issue of pets getting stuck at the door, not going thru a portal with you in CoT maps can be truly irritating.
As an MM, I just sit out any CoT underground city maps, my pets are a liability to the team, for after the first tp or portal trip, they seem to purposely split up in as many random directions and garner as much aggroe the game would allow 7 pets to bring to your team and you.
In some instances such as my Dark/Necro MM, my Dark powers are plenty good for me to go at it without my pets, so I do go in CoT underground city maps and help the team, and do so effectively. But there are many other combos that are pet intensive and thus being petless in that case would turn the MM into a liability to the team.
The left at entrance of a zone or mission issue, I use "/releasepets" that command has served me quite well and reliably. But the pet stuck thing can be a very ugly thing for an MM, at times we entered missions where a patrol is happily waiting for us and they attack us as we phase in and we are totally helpless since our GUI can not interact with the game just yet. Then under attack, my stuck pets do nothing as I am getting pelted and spam mezzed. Its rare to survive one of these scenarios, because you have to release the pets which you can't do while mezzed, and then after you released them, you have to resummon them and buff them if possible.
I believe the idea of you zoning in an out with your pets was to show consideration to the team by not having to wait for pet summoning, and for more realistic protection of the MM upon entering or leaving a mission.
Will these bugs get fixed?
Frankly, I really, really doubt it, for they have 2 things going against it:
1. There are work arounds, they may be clumsy and annoying, but there are work arounds. Thus reducing the priority or need to correct.
2. Well its red side, enough said.
The only suggestion, I can make to aleviate your pain is to develop your alt were it can be somewhat effective with out pets, so you have a fall back position in case of emergencies. With the introduction of IO sets and temp powers, you could surprise yourself on how good a fall back capability you actually can achieve.
Stormy
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Please, take the advice that others are giving you - /releasepets is not the same command as the one on the GUI (which issues the command /petcomall dismiss )|
Originally Posted by Rial_Vestro
Right and next you're going to tell me there's a difference between manually changing a pet to aggressive and typing out /petcom_all Aggressive. It's the same command one way is just faster than the other depending on your key binds. I happen to have all the slash commands binded to my numpad so I don't have to manually or otherwise type out the commands every time I use them or even use the 3 commands MMs come with that fill up power slots. It doesn't make one bit of difference what version of the command you use, they all do the same thing.
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This /bug is very annoying, has been reported multiple times but the above workaround is correct.
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Apparently not. The/release_pets command is not at all the dismiss command and while the latter will fail to actually dismiss the pets, /release_pets will work every single time. Believe me, I know how good it feels to be self-righteous on the internet, but trust us, /release_pets will solve your problem, kill the pets, and actually remove them from the game. Just try it.
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Originally Posted by Rial_Vestro
And believe me, I know all the commands and what they do as I have 7 MMs and have been addicted to MMs sense CoV beta.
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LOL, I love the attitude. Have you read any of the replies you've got? The command IS different and does work.
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Originally Posted by Rial_Vestro
Right and next you're going to tell me there's a difference between manually changing a pet to aggressive and typing out /petcom_all Aggressive. It's the same command one way is just faster than the other depending on your key binds. I happen to have all the slash commands binded to my numpad so I don't have to manually or otherwise type out the commands every time I use them or even use the 3 commands MMs come with that fill up power slots. It doesn't make one bit of difference what version of the command you use, they all do the same thing.POP
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Obviously you don't. |
Originally Posted by Rial_Vestro
<snip drooling rant>
And believe me, I know all the commands and what they do |
/releasepets is NOT the same as dismiss. As MULTIPLE people have told you.
How about dropping the attitude and trying it yourself? Everyone who's told you this USES it and KNOWS it from experience. The UI even behaves somewhat differently, as do the pets, as I explained earlier.
Either that or you can keep your panties in a twist and keep ignoring the workaround people who DO know better are giving you.
Edit:
Now, if they were the SAME command, you'd expect them to behave the same way, yes? Same animation and everything?
Watch this. Done with a bots mastermind because the difference is VERY obvious.
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You know I hear the pet aggro thing allot from other players as a Mastermind but never actually see it.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Mmm...
I just got about every flavor of MM one could conceive, and the issue of pets getting stuck at the door, not going thru a portal with you in CoT maps can be truly irritating. As an MM, I just sit out any CoT underground city maps, my pets are a liability to the team, for after the first tp or portal trip, they seem to purposely split up in as many random directions and garner as much aggroe the game would allow 7 pets to bring to your team and you. In some instances such as my Dark/Necro MM, my Dark powers are plenty good for me to go at it without my pets, so I do go in CoT underground city maps and help the team, and do so effectively. But there are many other combos that are pet intensive and thus being petless in that case would turn the MM into a liability to the team. The left at entrance of a zone or mission issue, I use "/releasepets" that command has served me quite well and reliably. But the pet stuck thing can be a very ugly thing for an MM, at times we entered missions where a patrol is happily waiting for us and they attack us as we phase in and we are totally helpless since our GUI can not interact with the game just yet. Then under attack, my stuck pets do nothing as I am getting pelted and spam mezzed. Its rare to survive one of these scenarios, because you have to release the pets which you can't do while mezzed, and then after you released them, you have to resummon them and buff them if possible. I believe the idea of you zoning in an out with your pets was to show consideration to the team by not having to wait for pet summoning, and for more realistic protection of the MM upon entering or leaving a mission. Will these bugs get fixed? Frankly, I really, really doubt it, for they have 2 things going against it: 1. There are work arounds, they may be clumsy and annoying, but there are work arounds. Thus reducing the priority or need to correct. 2. Well its red side, enough said. The only suggestion, I can make to aleviate your pain is to develop your alt were it can be somewhat effective with out pets, so you have a fall back position in case of emergencies. With the introduction of IO sets and temp powers, you could surprise yourself on how good a fall back capability you actually can achieve. Stormy |
There are limits to how many mobs can be pulled, how far you can pull them, and even how much space you put between yourself and your pets. This isn't to say that you can't inadvertently aggro more than your team can handle at one time but it does mean that this happens allot less often than some people would have you believe.
You can in fact pull up to 3 groups from one room into the next room on any map. This is also true without even playing as a Mastermind. Tankers especially are very good at this sort of aggro. Any more than that would not be possible unless you were intentionally trying to aggro.
If you move farther than a group can be pulled you have to continue attacking or taunting that group to make them move passed their normal limits. Something pet aggro alone has never done.
The second half of that myth is that pets will run threw every mob from beginning to end till they reach the MM. This is not true because of the limited distance you can actually move away from them. Once you get passed that limit your pets automatically re-summon next to you without running threw anything.
In order for your pets to actually run from the beginning of a mission to the end of it, you would have to be on a small mission map otherwise teliporting that distance will cause your pets to automatically re-summon where ever you are standing.
I've had this argument multiple times on multiple different teams and I always end up summoning at the door and getting teliported to the end of mission without any aggro what so ever. This actually saves time on summoning when they're already out and not having to wait for someone to TP me before I can summon. There's even been times when I've run threw a mission myself without getting much aggro if any at all.
These limits have always existed sense beta as built in safe guards against any massive amounts of Aggro. However because the limits are based on distance that doesn't prevent pets from aggroing mobs that are close together from the start. This is where the real problem is. Crowded maps, with an inexperienced MM can be hell. However if you're controlling pets in these situations rather than letting them run it doesn't cause a problem.
Pets blocking door ways, which people complain about with noobs is easily fixed by using the "go to" command which will cause your pets to move away from the door so you and others can get threw it, once clear then you hit follow again. Though it's rare that you can't just push them out of the way. I have more issues with other players blocking doors than with pets, especially if I'm a melee character and can't get into a room to attack because some idiot is standing right in the door way and it's usually a Blaster or other ranged character that doesn't need to be standing in a door.
Well I'm pretty sure our super-confident OP still believes dismiss and /releasepets are the same, but I've often wondered why sometimes when I did something to make pets leave they did the flashy "go away animation" and sometimes they died. Now I know, all my MMs have a releasepets macro, but sometimes if it's a specific pet I want gone I click dismiss.
So at least someone learned something here 
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Sense the launch of Going Rogue there have been several bugs related to MM pets. Most of them only minor annoyances but there is one bug which totally prevents you from playing a mastermind at all.
At first this was rare and easily worked around. Some times when loading into a zone your pets would stop responding to any commands and just stand at the entrance not moving. If you dismiss them so that you can re-summon them they will vanish from your pet window but will remain standing at the zone entrance making the power think that they're already active and not summon them again.
Basically this means that you're a Mastermind with no pets and a Mastermind with no pets is completely useless. The way to work around this was that if you leave the zone and come back in then the bug would fix itself and you'd have your pets back.
Well I've reported this bug THREE TIMES sense my first encounter with the launch of Going Rogue. I knows others have also reported the same bug.
Just a while ago I reported it for the 4th time except now it's actually gotten worse as I reloaded the zone 3 times and over and over again encountered that same bug making it impossible for me to play the game.
I don't see this reported on the forums anywhere so I thought I would also start this topic. Now I can understand that you fix these bugs in order of priority. One of the minor bugs I mentioned at the start of this is that my pets keep trading names and some of my key binds are set to that name. This is only a minor annoyance though and I can much sooner live with my pets having the wrong name attached to them then to live with not having pets at all.
I can't play a Mastermind when my strongest powers are sitting at the door not moving and I mainly play Masterminds. I have some others I can play for the time being but if this bug doesn't get fixed soon I'm not going to keep paying for a game that I can't even play. The next time I encounter this same bug where my pets just stand at the door not moving, I'm not even going to bother with another bug report, I'm just going to shut down my account. Maybe this will move the priority of the bug fix up, I've never had an issue getting a game stopping bug fixed before but this has gone on for far too long without doing anything about it.