Would be nice. A solid 'Straight shootin' theme.
Though, I can't see them changing the Tier 9. Something about a PBAoE pistol maneuver makes me as "how else could it be represented?"
But I'm with you. +1 Vote for alt pistol animation.
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
Isaac Asimov
I'd be happy with Pistols, Dual Wield and Empty Clips having additional animations!
On further thought into the topic, having an option for a random rotation on all the available animations wouldn't be so bad.
Specially so as I can't make my mind up on which version of Electrical Blast I like most. The one handed hip shooter, or the two-fisted 'Take this, scumbag'.
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
Isaac Asimov
Every DP concept I come up with is ruined by those animations. I just can't get into them. I'd love it if alternate ones were made. They don't even have to be "I stand perfectly still and shoot." You can easily add in movement without going overboard with the gun-kata.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
Every DP concept I come up with is ruined by those animations. I just can't get into them. I'd love it if alternate ones were made. They don't even have to be "I stand perfectly still and shoot." You can easily add in movement without going overboard with the gun-kata.
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You can't.
The developers face a couple of problems that requests for alternate animations rarely if never consider:
- Each Attack has to be visually distinctive, not just to the player, but to a viewer watching the player.
- Each Attach should do something different than another attack
- Attack power effect need to be balanced against an overall time of attack
- Attack visual effect needs to look natural in an average 30fps timing
- Attack visual effects need to count for engine limitations
The case in point here is the Martial Arts Animation. A significant number of players request a "proper street fighting / dirty fighting" variation of the Martial Arts set. The reality is, the game's engine does not handle model to model interaction. In the interests of computational performance and network performance, all interactions are based on a bubble. All objects animate within their bubble without regard to what animations outside that bubble are doing.
The reality is, a dirty fighting animation set that does stuff like kicks to the shin, punches to the groin, shoulder impacts, or the like, will never work without a completely new system to determine attack placement against target scaling. Such a system would send the base processing requirements on an arc associated more with Space Shuttles than computer games, neverminding network bandwidth requirements. There are very good reasons that most network oriented games try to limit the number of models than have an effect on one another.
Keeping with the martial arts theme, there is also the reality that a natural looking kick to the shin is not going to have the same amount of animation frames as a generic kick to the mid-section not, to mention that the animation that would be gained or lost on larger or smaller targets than average.
The developers are pretty much stuck with this fact:
- any and all alternate power animations must have the exact same number of frames as the power they replace
- go back and redo the power effect to account for the power animation timing change.
The Gun-Kata form allowed the developers enough visualization range to flesh out the dual-pistols power set. All of the power effects, damage, recharge, accuracy, and everything else, is based on the timings of each of those Gun-Kata attacks.
Alternate animations for each attack would need to... repeat... NEED TO keep the exact same animation timings.
Now, hold out a pistol. Any pistol. Even a water pistol if that's all you have.
Try to do something visually interesting that isn't just standing with a gun... using the same exact frame per second timings as the gun-kata animations.
Go on.
I'll wait.
No really.
I'll wait.
No, I'm not filming this for Paragon City's dumbest Video moments.
(although I totally am)
Have you grasped the problem yet?
There is no... effective way... that the developers can match the animation timings of the Gun-Kata attacks and maintain a set that does not re-use existing animations.
There's a very good reason that Mastermind's got dual-pistols a long time ago. There's a reason those animations are very static and Boring.
There's a Reason, and I know it's kind of hard to grasp, that it took a little under 4 years (June 6, 2006 to March 2nd 2010) for the developers to release a Blast-based Dual-Pistols set.
No, there is not room to make Dual Pistols look interesting just standing there doing nothing.
No, there is no movement that you can physically do, that isn't gun-kata, that looks good for a power animation.
Yes, if you try to post videos of yourself trying to make pistols look cool and interesting without using the same pose and not using gun-kata, everybody else here will be laughing their ***** off at you.
All that text aside, people have posted alternate animation ideas before to fit into the animation times. Even if it involves more pointing and aiming, a good number of people would be happy to have the options. What you call "boring", others call "Thank God I can make a gunslinger, soldier, cop, detective, 18th Century aristocrat, pirate, whatever without making them go through that ridiculous gun ballet each time they fire their pistols."
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
All that text aside, people have posted alternate animation ideas before to fit into the animation times. Even if it involves more pointing and aiming, a good number of people would be happy to have the options. What you call "boring", others call "Thank God I can make a gunslinger, soldier, cop, detective, 18th Century aristocrat, pirate, whatever without making them go through that ridiculous gun ballet each time they fire their pistols."
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This. The sets performance levels are one thing. Having the toon get hit with a seizure to fire off the tier 9 is another
I love how je's still banging on about this, as if making visually distinct alternate animations to fill the time was flat-out impossible. Maybe there's just a lack of imagination involved. And bringing up the (legitimate) model-to-model interaction engine issues involved in a hypothetical street fighting set is awesome, especially since it has damn-all to do with a blast set where you never touch your foe. Regardless, I'll just leave here what I said last time he brought this up. Suffice to say, it's nowhere near as impossible as he thinks.
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
This is an interesting angle to take on this. I'm personally one of those who would like an alternate set of animations, but I will admit I had not thought about making them all distinct as a potential issue.
That said, I don't think this is necessarily an insurmountable roadblock. Let's look at each power's cast time and animation individually and see what I can come up with for possible alternate animations. Pistols: animation time 1s. The character raises one arm and snaps off a quick shot with one pistol. No gun-fu here, no alternate animation needed. Dual Wield: animation time 1.67s. A 360 degree right handed spin into a crouch, firing both pistols held sideways, then spinning them as he stands back up. The alternate animation I would use would be for the character to raise one gun to eye level and fire a shot, then raise the other and fire. Optionally, if that doesn't take up enough time, have him fire off another shot from each pistol after they're both raised. Empty clips: animation time 2.5s. The character fires off quick volleys of three or four shots from each gun with the pistols held over his head, crossed in front of him, and normally. An easy pick for an alternate animation is to keep the volleys of shots, but just hold the guns normally and slightly change aim between each volley. Bullet rain: animation time 2.4s. The character fires off three shots from each gun while swinging his arms in broad arcs. This one I'm not sure how you'd make an alternate animation for. No matter what animation plays on the character, the curving bullet trail effects will be the same (I think), and I'm having a hard time coming up with a non gun-fu justification for that. Suppressive fire: animation time 1.67s. The character turns his right side towards his target, crouches slightly, and snaps off a quick shot with the right pistol while holding it sideways, spinning his guns as he returns to the ready position. Kill the spinning and this animation is fine as-is. Executioner's shot: 2.57s. Turning side-on to the target, the character raises his right arm above level, spins the pistol, brings it down, and fires off a single aimed shot. Again, kill the spin and this animation works for a non gun-fu character, in the same duration. Piercing rounds: animation time 2.5s.While spinning to his left, the character throws both guns up into the air for no apparent reason. After completing his spin, he catches the guns and 'punches' the right gun at the target while firing it. For an alternate animation for this I would have the character kneel, bring both pistols up to eye level and aim carefully, then fire off a pair of shots from each gun in a measured 1-2-1-2 and stand back up. Keep the motions deliberate and calm and it can easily fill the allotted time. Hail of Bullets: animation time ~3.5-4s (doesn't list it in-game for some reason). The character performs three complete 360 spins while firing his guns continuously in a variety of different directions. The thing about this animation is that it's intentionally flashy in the *details*. The spins contain quick crouches, turns, and jumps, the guns are held at strange angles while being fired and are re-aimed quickly. It would actually be relatively straightforward to create an alternate animation that does more or less the same thing (spinning in place while firing in all directions) but lacks all of the overly-fancy elements that put it over the top. Simply make the spins more deliberate with no hopping or jerky crouches, and have him hold his guns in normal outstretched arm positions while firing them. He can still fire in two directions at once and reorient his guns quickly, but make it feel controlled and measured instead of acrobatic and 'faster than the eye can follow'. Honestly, I think it can be done. I just came up with distinct alternates for all but one attack in an hour or so of thinking. They might not be polished ideas, and of course I'm no animator to implement them, but it ought to be possible. |
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
I'm not sure I understand the argument. If you're after realism, why are you trying to use two pistols at once accurately? Also, no gun fu moves on Pistols? That power is full of spins and whipped arms.
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If I'm after realism, why am I falling off a skyscraper and surviving?|
Originally Posted by David_Yanakov
I'm not sure I understand the argument. If you're after realism, why are you trying to use two pistols at once accurately?
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But I'm not after complete realism, just somewhere closer along the spectrum between "exact real life" and "Crazy flip-out ninja gun moves to fire a single shot". Besides, asking for less over the top dual pistol moves (an an alternate animation) is a more likely granted request than asking for a whole new "Single Pistol" set to avoid having to fire two pistols accurately in the name of realism.
I love the current Dual Pistols animations. I am completely behind those who want alternate animations. I know the animation team could do some that looked great, while being more sedate. It might not be worth it sadly, but it is not a matter of can't, but rather a matter of can't squeeze it in the schedule.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I'm rather surprised they couldn't figure out a way to do it when developing the set, or at least adjusting the pistols attacks from the Thugs set as needed to make it work. They know we want alternate animations for just about everything, and they already had some to hand. Why not do it, even with just those three they had? Mystifying.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I love the current Dual Pistols animations. I am completely behind those who want alternate animations. I know the animation team could do some that looked great, while being more sedate. It might not be worth it sadly, but it is not a matter of can't, but rather a matter of can't squeeze it in the schedule.
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But yes, I like the animations just fine as they are. It'd be fun to see what else they could come up with, though. Even a trick coin shot for Bullet Rain could be interesting (Xenosaga did it, why can't CoH?).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I was surprised when they had alternates for all the blast sets except pistols, since alternate pistol animations were a popular request. I'd be happy if my basic attacks used the Thug MM animations tweaked if necessary to be the same length as the current ones.
Most of the animations are cool for a trick shooter, but less desirable for a gritty pistol blaster. The animation I really hate is the throw my pistols up in the air and then fire though.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Most likely because the mastermind attacks that share the name are very different attacks. The animation times don't mesh up in any of the cases. DP Empty Clips is about ten frames longer than the MM version. If the same animations were used, there would be a noticeable pause after the animation 'finished' similar to what people experience with the pool power heals.
How many complaints do you think you'd hear about a set where people saw themselves being unable to do anything between attacks, even if the numbers were identical?
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Perhaps some. But then, if you didn't like it, you could just use the original animations. Everyone's happy!
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Originally Posted by David_Yanakov
How many complaints do you think you'd hear about a set where people saw themselves being unable to do anything between attacks, even if the numbers were identical?
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You're kind of dissing the ability of the animators for the game. They could use the exact same animations and have people be annoyed, sure, or they could lengthen how long some of them take to attack (Empty Clips would make more sense to fire off more rounds, anyway... I seem to recall the MM one only firing 3-4 shots), add in another move to the animation that was still not too "flashy," etc.|
Originally Posted by David_Yanakov
Most likely because the mastermind attacks that share the name are very different attacks. The animation times don't mesh up in any of the cases. DP Empty Clips is about ten frames longer than the MM version. If the same animations were used, there would be a noticeable pause after the animation 'finished' similar to what people experience with the pool power heals.
How many complaints do you think you'd hear about a set where people saw themselves being unable to do anything between attacks, even if the numbers were identical? |
I'm sure they would aim for the latter things, which is probably why they weren't done. Someone decided it was more work than they have time for. I think it's unfortunate and would question that judgment, but it is what it is. And who knows, maybe they didn't have time to do it so Dual Pistols could be a pre-order perk, and haven't had time since to add those in.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Oh how I wish DP users can either get alternate pistol firing animations like the Thugs MM have or maybe have them randomly appear in combat