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Well you kinda already defeated your own argument on 'blaster secondaries are all- ready?- *melee*'. Because they aren't. And I don't even feel they were designed to take/use them all (that is, I don't think the manipulation sets are balanced by picking all the powers...heck, manipulation sets simply aren't balanced...)|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I'm not talking "theory" here or "from looking at some power chart."
How about you? Or are you just looking for an argument? |
From my experience:
-Archery/Devices: No melee except taser, which I do use.
-Sonic/Ice: 1 melee attack in Ice Sword and 2 PBAoEs in Chilling Embrace/Frozen Aura. Ice Patch isn't melee as I'm not dumb enough to stand on it, I stand behind it.
-Elec/Energy: 2 melee attacks and a power thrust which is more an anti-melee attack.
-Energy/Fire: 1 melee attack and 2 PBAoEs.
But I think where you are passing misinformed information is with your definition of 'melee'. 20ft isn't melee range. 15ft isn't even melee range. And even if you consider it to be, you don't *need* to use them to be effective. That's why Blaster's ranged damage mod was pushed up. And as ineffective as portrayed on the forums, I enjoy full ranged builds, especially for sets like AR, Archery and DP since they have minimal redraw.
I'm not sure that I could get behind the particular power mixes of the ATs listed, but I do love brainstorming. If we were to see a new AT, the combo at the top of my list would have to be a Melee Damage / Buff-Debuff combo. So, for example, I could do Katana/Kinetics or Martial Arts/Dark Miasma. The two could also be swapped, primary and secondary-wise. I've been wanting the ability to make a mix like that forever. Maybe even a Manipulation (Dominator Secondary) / Buff-Debuff combo.
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First off. Don't attempt to compare blasters to scrappers.|
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
yeah blasters have secondary melee attacks.. but even with body armor tough and weave and maybe stealth and or combat jumping thrown in, they are still a little weaker than scrappers.
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There is no real comparison between the two combat roles.
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| yes negative taunt |
Having some sort of "placate field" would simply be horribly broken. Moreover, not everything responds to the placate effect.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Lol like anyone gives a damn what some losers think. They'd have to be considering they're spending their saturday evening with a gent like yourself.| By the way, your "anti-melee" comment got a great number of laughs from the team I'm on. Then I told them you were serious. |
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Show me where I said they're ALL melee. Go ahead. i'll wait.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Riiiight. Obviously nobody ever uses the nuke (melee range for most sets,) or most of their secondary (which is all - ready? - *melee.*)
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| Gee, look, as usual, you're wrong. |
Oh! Saying 'wrong' over and over again makes you sound sooo right. ooOOOOOooooooOH! We afraid of Bill and his (faux) fountain of ultimate knowledge
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| Right. So I should take your word over the fact they haven't been majorly changed in the game for seven years, and the only new set follows much the same pattern. |
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| OK, pop quiz... WHAT RANGE to you have to be in to use that power thrust? WHAT type of SET does it take, beside knockback? |
anti- (an′tī′, -tē, -ti, -tə)
1. against, hostile to, opposed to: antilabor, antislavery
2. that counteracts, that operates against: antiaircraft
In context, Power Thrust is used to *counteract* a melee opponent. Even in the description, it says the power does very little damage but can be used effectively. To someone that's not an idiot, that'd mean to subdue a close ranged foe; to an observant person, that'd also mean subdue a close foe by moving them outside of your melee range.
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| Try to use those PBAOE outside of melee range. |
Oh look! I hit em!
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| Misinformed? Sorry, that's your schtik. Should've remembered that (and your "creative" definitions) from before. |
"Just cause I post in a thread doesn't mean I have to offer actual ideas to help the OP!"
Yeah yeah, I remember. Whatev. Carry on...
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What would you want that for?|
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
Executor: extremely high melee damage (higher than scrappers and stalkers) with lots of AoE as their hall mark, but no armor.
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A friend of mine has a elec/shield scrapper...that guy´s like a frickin´ human Buzzsaw-mounted-on-a-Steamroller when it comes to sheer damage and taking mobs down in no time. And you still want to increase the damage output?
Why would you want that?
@Redcap
ANARCHY = A Society that does not need government
114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.
Christ alive, you two, either take it to PMs or get a room. Your as bad as each other.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well I have an excuse. I'm just Leo and it's to be expected.
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There is no excuse for 'No U'.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well I have an excuse. I'm just Leo and it's to be expected.
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And that's what both of you have descended to. Seeing who can wave around the biggest verbal ePeen 'Because you're you'.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Eh, I don't really have a 'No U' argument. I simply came into the discussion advising Bill if he's going to talk down to the OP, not to leave out exceptions. Notice, after I made my post, he ended up revising his 'blaster secondaries are all melee' statement and listed the exceptions.
Beyond that, I never said I was right and he was wrong...that's all him.
Sure, but two insults don't make a right, either
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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For someone insulting another person and calling their friends "losers," well, do us all a favor. Post your global. I want to be sure to put that on /gignore, as well, if this is "to be expected" from you.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well I have an excuse. I'm just Leo and it's to be expected.
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Given what I've seen in various posts you've done versus what Memphis has done, I'd play with him. With the help and guides he's put out here - not a "font of faux knowledge" - I'd expect him to know what he's doing, and the way he seems on the boards when someone's not provoking him he sounds like he'd be a good teammate. You, I can't see even standing next to you in the market as being pleasant. But by your own admission, "it's to be expected."
Yeah, he needs to tone it down some. But you're being juvenile.
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
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You're right, and I apologize to the OP and everyone else for the direction that took - I know *exactly* what Leo's like from dealing with him and his nonsense before, and shouldn't have let him goad me. (Of course, he let his true colors show.) Honestly, I should never have taken him off of ignore in the first place. Not sure why I did. Fixing *THAT* mistake now and getting rid of (or at least rewording) my part of the argument.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Christ alive, you two, either take it to PMs or get a room. Your as bad as each other.
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Oy vey, I give up...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Just doing my part to make the suggestion boards less condescending one high-horsed poster at a time. |
Originally Posted by Stormbird
For someone insulting another person and calling their friends "losers," well, do us all a favor. Post your global. I want to be sure to put that on /gignore, as well, if this is "to be expected" from you.
Given what I've seen in various posts you've done versus what Memphis has done, I'd play with him. With the help and guides he's put out here - not a "font of faux knowledge" - I'd expect him to know what he's doing, and the way he seems on the boards when someone's not provoking him he sounds like he'd be a good teammate. You, I can't see even standing next to you in the market as being pleasant. But by your own admission, "it's to be expected." Yeah, he needs to tone it down some. But you're being juvenile. |
Honestly, I was just speaking up against a particular statement made against the OP that could easily be considered condescending and harsh. I'm sure it was much more useful than the equivalent /jranger but was continuing to add more and more unnecessary hostilities. But I guess condescendingly laughing in someone's face is *WAAAAAAY* more acceptable than calling someone on a generalist statement they made?
Perhaps I am being juvenile but don't make the same mistake by letting your bias toward a poster blind you to what they've been recently spouting.
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Let the mods do the modding. It keeps the forums cleaner and lets you not leave as horrible of an impression of yourself as you do right now.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Just doing my part to make the suggestion boards less condescending one high-horsed poster at a time.
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Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
or what if they gave the players that reach a certain point the ability to have open power selections it would not make anyone less social the game is boring with out teaming
"Never attempt to balance mechanics through Role Playing."
Castle
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He essentially described a blapper..........|
Originally Posted by Nos482
What would you want that for?
A friend of mine has a elec/shield scrapper...that guy´s like a frickin´ human Buzzsaw-mounted-on-a-Steamroller when it comes to sheer damage and taking mobs down in no time. And you still want to increase the damage output? Why would you want that? |
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What? Are you suggesting that the Devs give long-time players the ability to choose any two powersets and put them together one a character? If so, that kind of thing was done in the Alpha phase of this game, and it was horribly broken. You could either really create a gimp character with no offense (tougher to do if you're experienced, but still possible), or a character that was just horribly out of balance in favor of god-mode (say, a Fire Blast/Stone Armor character). The ATs were put in place to try to prevent this.|
Originally Posted by Catbert_NA
or what if they gave the players that reach a certain point the ability to have open power selections it would not make anyone less social the game is boring with out teaming
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The amount of rebalancing of powersets that would need to be done to allow for open power selection would drive most existing players away, I think.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Originally Posted by Catbert_NA
or what if they gave the players that reach a certain point the ability to have open power selections it would not make anyone less social the game is boring with out teaming
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
What? Are you suggesting that the Devs give long-time players the ability to choose any two powersets and put them together one a character? If so, that kind of thing was done in the Alpha phase of this game, and it was horribly broken. You could either really create a gimp character with no offense (tougher to do if you're experienced, but still possible), or a character that was just horribly out of balance in favor of god-mode (say, a Fire Blast/Stone Armor character). The ATs were put in place to try to prevent this.
The amount of rebalancing of powersets that would need to be done to allow for open power selection would drive most existing players away, I think. |
Also - it's an opinion that the game is boring without teaming. Plenty of players do not find soloing boring. And whether you (catbert) find the game boring when soloing, it does not change the fact that every current AT & powerset combination can solo, so making some gimp thing that absolutely must team in order to make any progress whatsoever won't work.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Hey folks, these AT ideas have been discussed and weighed in on, and I think we've reached the end of how constructive this thread can be.
I noticed quite a few non-constructive posts in this thread and I'd like to leave a reminder that flaming and trolling are against the rules of the board. Please keep in mind that, even if you do not agree with a user's suggestions and ideas, you can phrase your posts in a more constructive manner without resorting to insults and derisive laughter.
Please keep this in mind in the future. Thanks.
Electric - 7 of 9 powers are melee/PBAOE, the exceptions being Build Up and Fence.
Energy - 5 of 9, with the rest being purely utility.
Fire - 6 or 7, depending on how you want to count Burn, with the same exceptions as Elec.
Ice - Shiver is FINALLY something actually ranged besides the immob. Still five or six, depending on how you want to count Ice Patch (still PBAOE, but can be left in place.)
Mental - the most "ranged" with the now-unsurprising to anyone who pays the least attention Immob, Psy scream and Scare. Five powers are STILL PBAOE/Melee.
So, yes, I'd say it's pretty safe to say that "Most blaster secondaries are designed for melee" and, like I said, ignoring melee means you're not using half your ability - your secondary, pretty much.
Simple enough for you?
Know why ELSE I say it? Experience. Because my first 50 WAS a Blaster, elec/elec, and initially I *DID* do just what he said - "Melee? No, I'm squishy, I'm running away!" Then I actually paid attention to my secondary and became MUCH more effective. And this is before Defiance 2.0 - even 1.0, back in Issue 3, and has held true since.
I'm not talking "theory" here or "from looking at some power chart."