Ever a chance to remove no-phase from Hibernate?
By
AOL_Eats_Babies,
Posted on: 2011-01-31 22:03 in Tankers
I doubt it, the devs seem happy with the way phase powers work nowadays. However, if you're needing Hibernate more than once or twice per mission there's probably something out of kilter with your build... a good Ice tank build shouldn't be that squishy. Mine at 34 is surprisingly tough and I rarely use hibernate... of course he's softcapped to S/L/E/N damage. It wasn't cheap getting that done, and he's been that way since level 30. Still, it makes for a quite sturdy tank, and I'm working toward roughly 35% F/C defense... I should get there by 40 on my current build plan.
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By tough situations I meant team wipes, double/triple pulls gone bad or heavy psi or fire damage. In situations like that lasting 90 seconds is a lot harder than lasting 45 seconds.
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
However, if you're needing Hibernate more than once or twice per mission there's probably something out of kilter with your build.
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I personally think Ice Armor could use a small buff, and maybe a change to Hibernate would be the way to go. This does seem a bit complicated however, and I doubt Ice Armor is high up on the devs to-do list.
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... ... I know what I want to say, but I'm not sure how to say it.|
Originally Posted by AOL_Eats_Babies
By tough situations I meant team wipes, double/triple pulls gone bad or heavy psi or fire damage. In situations like that lasting 90 seconds is a lot harder than lasting 45 seconds.
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The basic problem you have is this: You have raised expectations that the developers have no intentions meeting.
The developers do not WANT every defensive armor to be god-like and unstoppable in combat conditions. Ice armor is DELIBERATELY weak to Fire and Psionic damage. Tanks, by and large, ARE NOT SUPPOSED to be undying machines.
Tanks, by and large, ARE DESIGNED to take aggro and manage damage BETTER than other archtypes. This does not, and has not, and will not, ever mean that Tanks will be completely invincible to any and all combat situations, NOR SHOULD IT MEAN that Tanks SHOULD BE completely invincible to any and all combat situations.
Now, before you start whining that Stone Armor: Granite proves this design wrong, keep in mind that Stone Armor: Granite has a nasty native damage debuff, a nasty recharge debuff, and no Psionic Protection. In addition the developers admit that the rest of the Stone Armor set is under-performing level per level compared to other armor sets SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE GRANITE IS SO OVERWHELMINGLY EFFECTIVE
So here's what you can do with your whining that you can't be Tank-Almighty: Stuff it in a rubbish bin.
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This was rude, hostile, and completely unnecessary.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
... ... I know what I want to say, but I'm not sure how to say it.
The basic problem you have is this: You have raised expectations that the developers have no intentions meeting. The developers do not WANT every defensive armor to be god-like and unstoppable in combat conditions. Ice armor is DELIBERATELY weak to Fire and Psionic damage. Tanks, by and large, ARE NOT SUPPOSED to be undying machines. Tanks, by and large, ARE DESIGNED to take aggro and manage damage BETTER than other archtypes. This does not, and has not, and will not, ever mean that Tanks will be completely invincible to any and all combat situations, NOR SHOULD IT MEAN that Tanks SHOULD BE completely invincible to any and all combat situations. Now, before you start whining that Stone Armor: Granite proves this design wrong, keep in mind that Stone Armor: Granite has a nasty native damage debuff, a nasty recharge debuff, and no Psionic Protection. In addition the developers admit that the rest of the Stone Armor set is under-performing level per level compared to other armor sets SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE GRANITE IS SO OVERWHELMINGLY EFFECTIVE So here's what you can do with your whining that you can't be Tank-Almighty: Stuff it in a rubbish bin. |
You made a long post that basically says, in so many words: Shut up.
Really, do you HAVE to be so damn arrogant all the time? You are not better than the rest of us, you are not smarter, you do not know everything about how the game works (in fact you are proven to be dead wrong quite frequently) You most certainly do not know what the developers think about every single thing you decide to post about any more than I do. Nor do you know what their intentions are.
Get over yourself already.
That said, I agree with the notion that if you actually NEED to use Hibernate more frequently than every 90 seconds, your build has bigger problems than Hibernate not being available often enough. The OP stated that Hibernate not being usable more than every 90 seconds reduced their tank's survivability by HALF. That isn't an issue with Hibernate, in fact an Ice tank shouldn't be relying on Hibernate nearly that much in any situation.
Post a build if you can, and maybe some people can take a look at it and fix whatever the problem is that makes you have to use Hibernate so often. I'm not an Ice tank expert by any means, but I know how the set works and what IOs you might be able to slot to help you survive better.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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It was also je_saist being definitively je_saist.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
This was rude, hostile, and completely unnecessary.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Really, do you HAVE to be so damn arrogant all the time?
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Get over yourself already.
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Yeah, I edited my post to add some on-topic points after I realized that since my post was consisting of just being annoyed with je_saist, I was acting no better.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'd like to echo everything that Claws said, including the part about the build having some flaws if you need hibernate more than once every 90 seconds.
But I'd also like to respond to something specific that "misspelled 'I know' in French" said.
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My Dark Armor tank takes issue with this statement.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Tanks, by and large, ARE NOT SUPPOSED to be undying machines.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Je Saist - My inv/fire can still solo AVs. Haven't been nerfed yet.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
... ... I know what I want to say, but I'm not sure how to say it.
The basic problem you have is this: You have raised expectations that the developers have no intentions meeting. The developers do not WANT every defensive armor to be god-like and unstoppable in combat conditions. Ice armor is DELIBERATELY weak to Fire and Psionic damage. Tanks, by and large, ARE NOT SUPPOSED to be undying machines. Tanks, by and large, ARE DESIGNED to take aggro and manage damage BETTER than other archtypes. This does not, and has not, and will not, ever mean that Tanks will be completely invincible to any and all combat situations, NOR SHOULD IT MEAN that Tanks SHOULD BE completely invincible to any and all combat situations. Now, before you start whining that Stone Armor: Granite proves this design wrong, keep in mind that Stone Armor: Granite has a nasty native damage debuff, a nasty recharge debuff, and no Psionic Protection. In addition the developers admit that the rest of the Stone Armor set is under-performing level per level compared to other armor sets SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE GRANITE IS SO OVERWHELMINGLY EFFECTIVE So here's what you can do with your whining that you can't be Tank-Almighty: Stuff it in a rubbish bin. |
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Agreed, either that or the team is just in way over their heads and needs to turn the difficulty down a notch.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I'd like to echo everything that Claws said, including the part about the build having some flaws if you need hibernate more than once every 90 seconds.
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It's doubtful that Hibernate will ever have the no-phase removed. Since people had been able to make themselves nearly untouchable by bouncing between it, and the Power Pool: Phase Shift. It seems the devs felt it was necessary to implement the no-phase cool down to keep players from abusing the ability to nearly live in a phased state.
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Awww, c'mon...I've seen you talk about using the in-set rez power meaning enemies have to defeat you twice. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
My Dark Armor tank takes issue with this statement.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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I always preface that with "on the very rare occasion that it happens."|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Awww, c'mon...I've seen you talk about using the in-set rez power meaning enemies have to defeat you twice.
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Like when I decided I could skip the hydra and solo the pylon on my first Apex TF. I killed it; it just took me a second try.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Possible? Yes. Will it happen? No.
My personal opinion is that NoPhase should be removed. Ice Armor is still one of my favorite sets, however it is unplayable to me. The survivability reduction (The random number generator can hate you twice in less than 90 seconds whether or not you're a seasoned player with a good build) is something that I got over, but not knowing when Hibernate recharges drives me incredibly insane!
P.S. Just ignore je_saist. It (He? She?) doesn't know what it's talking about.
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Bah, my Fiery Aura Tanker never died on that part of Apex. Dark Armor is clearly just weaker than Fiery Aura! Mwahahaha!|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I always preface that with "on the very rare occasion that it happens."
Like when I decided I could skip the hydra and solo the pylon on my first Apex TF. I killed it; it just took me a second try. |
I might have had a few buffs on me and had enough time to proactively use Healing Flames and pop an orange inspiration, though. Maybe.
For the OP, it's hard to say without knowing a bit more about your build and exact conditions you are seeing. The +40 game is more challenging than other parts of CoH, remember, so you do have to adapt and build for that more than other parts of the game. It's also helpful to have good tactics... you usually want to avoid triple pulls, anyway, given the aggro cap and other things like that. Teams can work on more than that, but it is harder to do.
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I took my ice tank for a spin tonight and she performed excellently. In 5 missions I only died once when I jumped in solo to 2 closely spawned groups of longbow and died before I realized I was losing health.
I only used hibernate 3 or 4 times. Had no problems with carnies.
She was like I remember, very tough. I just had to use a few more inspirations a couple times when hibernate was recharged but still unavailable.
I played my Ice/Stone for a while and she was a blast. I got her to level 42 and the final 10 levels whenever I was in a tough situation I found myself relying on Hibernate being up every 40-45 seconds.
When I13 hit Hibernate was lumped in with the rest of the phase powers and given a 90 second cool down no matter its recharge. What this meant for my Ice tank was that her survivability was reduced by half.
Do you think it is possible to ever remove the phase timer from Hibernate?