What works well with FF....

Oedipus_Tex · 02-02-2011 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrthas

Yeah, this. I think Cold can get the closest, actually. The only difference is that you get half the def on your pbaoe, which means you'll probably around 7.5-8% behind FF. Well, you also lose the status res from Dispersion Bubble, and you gain stealth and debuffs and blah blah.

Correct, but with a few clarifications. Cold and FF for various reasons have been compared over the years but aren't really directly comparable. FFs team shields are only half the story. In the same way that "heals suck" on the boards "ff sucks" has kind of take root over time.

[What follows is not necessarily related to the above quoted post.]

IMO Force Field is properly looked at as a version of Super Reflexes that you happen to be able to share with teammates. The major difference, aside from not getting defense debuff protection, is you that you can put people at SR levels of reflex with minimal power investment. It takes 4 powers to cap people's defenses to everything but Psi, and you can do it from level 22 on.

Now, there is a whole lobby of players who essentially think FF is terrible because 1) IOs exist and 2) Cold exists. It turns out though that the FF player him/herself can IO to the highest echelons of tank-magedom. Traps gets a slight lead here, but Traps is also not SR for the team, but something else altogether. Cold Domination meanwhile is not nearly in the same class as (on a Defender) it will always lack mezz protection, and lacks baseline elemental defense.

[EDIT: Actually I may be wrong about Cold lacking baseline elemental defense. Mids and the game detail text say it's there, RedTomax says it isn't. I'm almost positive that on Controllers, at least, it's not actually there despite the game text, not sure about Defenders.]

I am not saying FF is perfect or that Cold or Traps suck, but that comparing them side by side is sort of pointless. There is good reason that Castle hesitated to buff FF. I do think it needs a nudge, but anything more than a slight increase could very well send the set into overdrive.

Meanwhile for anyone who wishes to leverage FF on a Defender in a traditional support role, I recommend FF/Sonic. For single target, an individual /Sonic Defender has more stackable -Resistance than any of the primary sets brings on its own. I have no doubt people will continue to reject FF based simply on primary powerset, but no one said player decisions had to make sense. You will still have to be content with not being the perfect min/max pick for very late game activities.

Hyperstrike · 02-02-2011 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arondell

I think the point is that Traps defenders can't get close to the defense softcap.

Uhm.

WHAT?!?!?

Not to call you mistaken or anything BUT...

Please peruse the build below and tell me the problems with it (other than price, even then, most of the sets used to build it are dirt cheap).

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Traps
Secondary Power Set: Archery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Web Grenade

(A) Empty

Level 1: Snap Shot

(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(7) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 2: Caltrops

(A) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(7) Detonation - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(11) Detonation - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(11) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(13) Detonation - Damage/Endurance/Range: Level 50

Level 4: Triage Beacon

(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
(13) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(15) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
(15) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 6: Acid Mortar

(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(17) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(17) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(19) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(19) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(21) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 8: Force Field Generator

(A) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(9) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(9) Defense Buff IO: Level 50

Level 10: Aimed Shot

(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(21) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(23) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(23) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(25) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(25) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 12: Poison Trap

(A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50
(27) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50
(27) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold: Level 50
(29) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50
(29) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold: Level 50

Level 14: Fistful of Arrows

(A) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

Level 16: Blazing Arrow

(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(31) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(33) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(33) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(33) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(34) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 18: Seeker Drones

(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(34) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(34) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(36) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(36) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(36) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 20: Aim

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff: Level 50
(48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 50
(48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance: Level 50
(48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50
(50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
(50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 50

Level 22: Explosive Arrow

(A) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(37) Detonation - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(37) Detonation - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(37) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(39) Detonation - Damage/Endurance/Range: Level 50

Level 24: Boxing

(A) Empty

Level 26: Trip Mine

(A) Eradication - Damage: Level 30
(39) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
(39) Eradication - Damage/Recharge: Level 30
(40) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 30
(40) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
(40) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 30

Level 28: Tough

(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30

Level 30: Weave

(A) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(31) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(31) Defense Buff IO: Level 50

Level 32: Time Bomb

(A) Eradication - Damage: Level 30
(42) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
(42) Eradication - Damage/Recharge: Level 30
(42) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 30
(43) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
(43) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 30

Level 35: Stunning Shot

(A) Empty

Level 38: Rain of Arrows

(A) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(43) Detonation - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(45) Detonation - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(45) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(45) Detonation - Damage/Endurance/Range: Level 50

Level 41: Hover

(A) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(46) Defense Buff IO: Level 50

Level 44: Maneuvers

(A) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(46) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(46) Defense Buff IO: Level 50

Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl

(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Empty

Level 2: Rest

(A) Empty

Level 1: Vigilance
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift

(A) Empty

Level 2: Hurdle

(A) Empty

Level 2: Health

(A) Empty

Level 2: Stamina

(A) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
(50) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50

------------
Set Bonus Totals:

5.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
5.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
5.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
5.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
5.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
5.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
5.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
5.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
4.25% Defense(Smashing)
4.25% Defense(Lethal)
11.44% Defense(Fire)
11.44% Defense(Cold)
28% Defense(Energy)
28% Defense(Negative)
3% Defense(Psionic)
5.5% Defense(Melee)
24.88% Defense(Ranged)
19.88% Defense(AoE)
3.6% Max End
2.5% Enhancement(Held)
35% Enhancement(Accuracy)
25% FlySpeed
64.86 HP (6.377%) HitPoints
25% JumpHeight
25% JumpSpeed
MezResist(Held) 2.2%
MezResist(Sleep) 4.95%
MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
12.5% (0.209 End/sec) Recovery
12% (0.51 HP/sec) Regeneration
5.625% Resistance(Energy)
25% RunSpeed
7% XPDebtProtection

------------
Set Bonuses:
Thunderstrike
(Snap Shot)

2% (0.033 End/sec) Recovery
2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)

Detonation
(Caltrops)

MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
1.875% Resistance(Energy)
1% XPDebtProtection
1.875% Defense(AoE), 0.938% Defense(Fire), 0.938% Defense(Cold)

Numina's Convalescence
(Triage Beacon)

12% (0.51 HP/sec) Regeneration

Doctored Wounds
(Triage Beacon)

MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%

Thunderstrike
(Acid Mortar)

2% (0.033 End/sec) Recovery
2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)

Thunderstrike
(Aimed Shot)

2% (0.033 End/sec) Recovery
2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)

Lockdown
(Poison Trap)

3% DamageBuff(All)
2.5% Enhancement(Held)
MezResist(Held) 2.2%
2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)

Thunderstrike
(Blazing Arrow)

2% (0.033 End/sec) Recovery
2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)

Thunderstrike
(Seeker Drones)

2% (0.033 End/sec) Recovery
2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)

Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control
(Aim)

5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
19.08 HP (1.876%) HitPoints
2.5% (0.042 End/sec) Recovery
2.5% DamageBuff(All)
2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold) (Exceeded 5 Bonus Cap)

Detonation
(Explosive Arrow)

MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
1.875% Resistance(Energy)
1% XPDebtProtection
1.875% Defense(AoE), 0.938% Defense(Fire), 0.938% Defense(Cold)

Eradication
(Trip Mine)

1.8% Max End
3.125% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.563% Defense(Ranged)
22.89 HP (2.251%) HitPoints
2% XPDebtProtection
3.125% Defense(AoE), 1.563% Defense(Fire), 1.563% Defense(Cold)

Steadfast Protection
(Tough)

3% Defense(Smashing,Lethal,Fire,Cold,Energy,Negative, Psionic,Melee,Ranged,AoE)

Eradication
(Time Bomb)

1.8% Max End
3.125% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.563% Defense(Ranged)
22.89 HP (2.251%) HitPoints
2% XPDebtProtection
3.125% Defense(AoE), 1.563% Defense(Fire), 1.563% Defense(Cold)

Detonation
(Rain of Arrows)

MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
1.875% Resistance(Energy)
1% XPDebtProtection
1.875% Defense(AoE), 0.938% Defense(Fire), 0.938% Defense(Cold)

Code:

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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Oedipus_Tex · 02-02-2011 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperstrike

Uhm.

WHAT?!?!?

Not to call you mistaken or anything BUT...

Please peruse the build below and tell me the problems with it (other than price, even then, most of the sets used to build it are dirt cheap).

Pretty sure s/he meant for teammates. Both Traps and FF give excellent foundations for ridiculous personal defense potential. I have to admit it does kind of chap my hide that Traps has better personal defense at less endurance cost than the set that specialises in such things, but so it goes. Maybe one day FF will get the defense debuff resistance it deserves.

anonymoose · 02-02-2011 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

Now there's a quality I look for in a support character.

I'm supporting the team, I run maneuvers and tactics and assault and keep FFG summoned. I'm also spamming debuffs and holds and AOE damage.

Look, my first 50 was a bubbler. I wasted an enormous amount of time getting to 50, safely but sloooooowly. When my trapper hit mid-30s I realized that the bubbler had been eclipsed in every way. Well, except knockback powers.

If you've got a mature bubbler you enjoy playing that's great but why anyone would suggest someone roll a new one is beyond me.

anonymoose · 02-02-2011 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arondell

A teammate would have to have at least an extra 10-15% defense against a variety of types(e.g. melee, ranged, AoE)

Yes, 1 small purple to start off a tough fight. Assuming no-one else on the team is running any +DEF powers.

In exchange the team gets vicious debuffs, soft control, AOE holds with a little proc slotting, and lots of damage.

Hyperstrike · 02-02-2011 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

Pretty sure s/he meant for teammates. Both Traps and FF give excellent foundations for ridiculous personal defense potential. I have to admit it does kind of chap my hide that Traps has better personal defense at less endurance cost than the set that specialises in such things, but so it goes. Maybe one day FF will get the defense debuff resistance it deserves.

Ah! Okay.

Was a bit...nonplussed when I first read it.

And A-FREAKIN'-MEN to the DDR.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Hyperstrike · 02-02-2011 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymoose

I'm supporting the team, I run maneuvers and tactics and assault and keep FFG summoned. I'm also spamming debuffs and holds and AOE damage.

Look, my first 50 was a bubbler. I wasted an enormous amount of time getting to 50, safely but sloooooowly. When my trapper hit mid-30s I realized that the bubbler had been eclipsed in every way. Well, except knockback powers.

If you've got a mature bubbler you enjoy playing that's great but why anyone would suggest someone roll a new one is beyond me.

Because playing a 'fender is about more than just "me me me me me".

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Oedipus_Tex · 02-02-2011 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymoose

I'm supporting the team, I run maneuvers and tactics and assault and keep FFG summoned. I'm also spamming debuffs and holds and AOE damage.

Look, my first 50 was a bubbler. I wasted an enormous amount of time getting to 50, safely but sloooooowly. When my trapper hit mid-30s I realized that the bubbler had been eclipsed in every way. Well, except knockback powers.

If you've got a mature bubbler you enjoy playing that's great but why anyone would suggest someone roll a new one is beyond me.

I have a 50 Force Field Defender. It was the cleanest ride to 50 of any character I've played; Controller, Defender, whatever. I played "radio team taskmaster" and just recruited 7 people to run around in front of me. With only 1 Scrapper exception, every one of my characters over 40 is a support set. Cold is great, Traps is great, Force Field is ok. It's not the darling of the ITF or STF so people think it sucks. Their call. I have so many support characters that I truly no longer care which one of them is the best, because all of them outshine each other in various circumstances.

Pyrthas · 02-02-2011 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

[What follows is not necessarily related to the above quoted post.]

It turns out though that the FF player him/herself can IO to the highest echelons of tank-magedom. Traps gets a slight lead here, but Traps is also not SR for the team, but something else altogether.

I am not saying FF is perfect or that Cold or Traps suck, but that comparing them side by side is sort of pointless. There is good reason that Castle hesitated to buff FF. I do think it needs a nudge, but anything more than a slight increase could very well send the set into overdrive.

Meanwhile for anyone who wishes to leverage FF on a Defender in a traditional support role, I recommend FF/Sonic. For single target, an individual /Sonic Defender has more stackable -Resistance than any of the primary sets brings on its own.

Maybe one day FF will get the defense debuff resistance it deserves.

Just wanted to say I completely agree with everything you said in your posts (based on my whole one month of playing post-def nerf, post-ED, post-IOs, etc. :P), and especially with these parts. Even with FF/Dark, despite the stupid overkill on def and -tohit, I do enjoy the AoEs. Most fights begin with me jumping next to the tank, hitting soul drain, and dropping all three for solid damage (especially with this brand new 45% dmg musculature; even just at 1/2 ignoring ED, it's pretty nice). The softcapped def against everything (3 positions + psi), mez protection, and ~65% (68 with Shield Wall +3 res) s/l res are nice, too, though any defender can easily get the last of those three.

I will say that when I decided to make an alt for dxp, I went with Traps/ partly because I got spoiled by the whole softcapped-to-everything thing. I'm not an altaholic, but if I'm gonna make an alt, I want it to be one that gets to be as in-your-face as my bubbler while still playing support. Long-term, I wouldn't be surprised if the Traps replaces my FF as my main, but I think I'll still enjoy them both plenty.

Edit: And yeah, the "make any pug super safe" is nice with bubbles. It's less awesome on well-organized TFs, but oh well. It's actually still pretty handy for some pug ITFs and STFs and stuff.

anonymoose · 02-03-2011 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperstrike

Because playing a 'fender is about more than just "me me me me me".

My costume doesn't include a hairshirt, perhaps I should reroll.

anonymoose · 02-03-2011 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

Cold is great, Traps is great, Force Field is ok. It's not the darling of the ITF or STF so people think it sucks. Their call. I have so many support characters that I truly no longer care which one of them is the best, because all of them outshine each other in various circumstances.

This is probably where my perspective differs.

I've got a pile of alts in their 20s and 30s, each one with the potential for greatness. There are a lot of ways to make great toons in this game- Dark Miasma, Storm, Traps, Kin, Rad, to say nothing of my baby Dom or Crab. Some of these guys are going the be awesome!

Buying more slots wouldn't even help, it'll take me years to get my current alts to 50, and now there's the extra grind of incarate stuff they'll need to do.

It all comes down to fun,and I guess that's different for everyone. If I'm going to play a toon it better be GREAT, because there are lots of lowbie alts competing for my playtime, and a zillion character concepts competing for that slot.

Bonyfinger · 02-03-2011 07:38 AM

"Bubble Guns" is my FF/Dual Pistols Defender, and she's a total blast to play. It's a fun combo IMHO.

Arondell · 02-03-2011 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

Pretty sure s/he meant for teammates. Both Traps and FF give excellent foundations for ridiculous personal defense potential.

Yes I was refering to the team potential not the personal defense with IOs. For that matter Traps seems to have a better foundation for getting to the personal softcap with Melee, Ranged, AoE.

Oedipus_Tex · 02-03-2011 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymoose

This is probably where my perspective differs.

I've got a pile of alts in their 20s and 30s, each one with the potential for greatness. There are a lot of ways to make great toons in this game- Dark Miasma, Storm, Traps, Kin, Rad, to say nothing of my baby Dom or Crab. Some of these guys are going the be awesome!

Buying more slots wouldn't even help, it'll take me years to get my current alts to 50, and now there's the extra grind of incarate stuff they'll need to do.

It all comes down to fun,and I guess that's different for everyone. If I'm going to play a toon it better be GREAT, because there are lots of lowbie alts competing for my playtime, and a zillion character concepts competing for that slot.

I find the inclusion of Storm interesting. Storm and Force Field to me are about even. Storm is a little less redundant at high levels but I don't feel like I could take a team of "7 anybodies" and run radios at +3 and come out without a scratch. Storm can solo some stuff FF would struggle with, but FF isn't a set I'd want to solo with a lot anyway (although my Elec/FF Controller, my second FF character, has turned out to be very capable of that).

In any case one definite solo advantage of FF relative to many other sets is that they can shield PPP pets. My Elec/FF's eventual strategy will revolve around that. My FF/Ice Defender I play less often, less because he sucks but because concept (him being the Pinball Blizzard) makes me feel compelled to take FF's knockback powers, which I think are not very useful.

Late2Party · 02-03-2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

[EDIT: Actually I may be wrong about Cold lacking baseline elemental defense. Mids and the game detail text say it's there, RedTomax says it isn't. I'm almost positive that on Controllers, at least, it's not actually there despite the game text, not sure about Defenders.]

They stealth fixed Arctic Fog sometime after GR but before the most recent patch. You now get typed and positional defense like steamy mist

.

I noticed when I started a new controller and verified on my defender.

Oedipus_Tex · 02-03-2011 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Late2Party

They stealth fixed Arctic Fog sometime after GR but before the most recent patch. You now get typed and positional defense like steamy mist

.

I noticed when I started a new controller and verified on my defender.

Yep, looks like you're right. It shows up for my Mind/Cold troller now. Now if they would just "discover" the "bug" that is FF not having DDR...

StormyDarkness · 02-03-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrthas

Edit: And yeah, the "make any pug super safe" is nice with bubbles. It's less awesome on well-organized TFs, but oh well.

I think this is why my Mind/FF and FF/Archery Defenders have fallen out of those I play.

Typically I'm with 3+ other people who know what they are doing. That's partly because I have recently been somewhat snobish on what TFs I join based on the (perceived) intelligence of the leader. Typically a good leader means a good team. Also, I stay as far away from broadcasting my task forces in the actual broadcast channel as I can. If they are smart enough to join and use a global channel, they are typically smart enough to not *need* FF unless the entire team is under level.

50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec

anonymoose · 02-03-2011 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

I find the inclusion of Storm interesting. Storm and Force Field to me are about even. Storm is a little less redundant at high levels but I don't feel like I could take a team of "7 anybodies" and run radios at +3 and come out without a scratch.

Storm won't take teammates from zero to hero, but it can bump a half-decent team to "good" or a good team to "steamroller".

I also love storm solo because you can KB like a lunatic.

We might be running different kinds of PUGs. My play time consists of soloing tip mishes until something interesting starts recruiting in the Justice United channel.

JU is friendly but businesslike. We want to have a good time but when a TF or raid forms people discuss what toons they have to offer and try to recruit complimentary powersets.

JU PUGs range from decent to outstanding. I'm never spending an entire mish as the sole factor between success and a wipe. There's usually at least one very good toon, maybe several. And of course a skilled player levelling a new toon is worth more then a Monkey Baby's 50.

I'll re-emphasize "friendly", I've been on many JU "Master Of" PUGs, good and bad. There's never recriminations on failure.

So maybe I've got the wrong idea about PUGs. If you aren't drawing from a decent talent pool I suppose you don't hit the diminishing returns of FF the way we do. I'll pipe down and be over here counting my blessings

Zombeh_Defendar · 02-06-2011 02:08 AM

FF/Rad

/Thread

Tenzhi · 02-06-2011 07:20 AM

I personally hated the FFG when I gave Traps a whirl. It moseyed along its stupid pet pathing, not always keeping up and getting inconveniently destroyed far too often when it did.

Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

anonymoose · 02-06-2011 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

I personally hated the FFG when I gave Traps a whirl. It moseyed along its stupid pet pathing, not always keeping up and getting inconveniently destroyed far too often when it did.

Super Speed and FFG is a recipe for faceplants, learned that the hard way

I turn off SS when I'm actually in combat, and if there's a kin on the team I keep an eye on FFG to be sure I don't lose him. I colored my FFG bubble a bright purple to make it easier to keep track of.

Once in a rare I've teamed with a Kin who SBs FFG, what a joy.

Teleport sounded like a good idea, I'd 'port into the middle of a crowd and toebomb. The problem of course is that FFG doesn't 'port with you on short hops... OUCH!

Tenzhi · 02-06-2011 01:13 PM

The other boon of FF over Traps' FFG for the truly selfish Defender is that you can skip everything but Dispersion Bubble and easily more-than-softcap your Defense versus Smashing, Lethal, and Energy without even bothering with set bonuses. And you have a respectable 35% or so against everything else to work with.

Though I find that to be a better trick for a Controller...

Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

Pyrthas · 02-07-2011 06:08 AM

I'm certainly not one to oppose FF in general, but that doesn't really sound like a boon. By the same token, Traps can skip everything but FFG, and the only drawback is the one you already cited--it sucks to wait on FFG catching up. Of course, you would never do that with Traps, because it has all those tasty debuffs. But that just drives home the point that FF really isn't a good choice if you're not interested in softcapping your team.

Quixotik · 02-13-2011 04:24 PM

FF/Rad. Pure Energy Damage is poorly resisted except by Rikti. Cosmic Burst does high damage and keeps Bosses stunned with a fast recharge.

FF/Ice. Ice is good damage with a double hold. Blizzard plus Ice Storm can be cast around corners allowing you time to get PFF back up.

FF has some things Traps doesn't that makes it more than just Dispersion Bubble. Force Bubble is your tool, flip it on and off to keep mobs scrambling. Repulsion Field can send foes flying 50 feet.

The only drawback with FF is that eventually some high level boss or mobs will overcome your defense, but purple bosses are always tough.

Quixotik

"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator

Pyrthas · 02-14-2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quixotik

The only drawback with FF is that eventually some high level boss or mobs will overcome your defense, but purple bosses are always tough.

This is misleading. It's true that higher level enemies have better-than-5% chances of hitting you, but it's not really because they're "overcoming your defense." Everything has a base 50% tohit, except for some new mobs that have 64%. Of course, there are some def debuffs and tohit buffs running around out there, but they're not all that common. Softcapping your team still means that the vast majority of AVs have as low a chance to hit you as possible. (It won't be 5%, because of accuracy mods from any level difference and from being an AV, but it'll still be as low as possible.) You don't start seeing tohit buffs until +6.