The CoH manual was in need of an update at Launch. By now, I think just "updating" is a lost cause.
Entirely remaking it would be good, but would also suffer from the same thing the original does: it's subject to turning obsolete due to any change made.
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Looking through the power descriptions in the manual is like opening a time capsule. Integration and Temp Invulnerability as clicks, Resilience as a toggle, not being able to move with Unyielding Stance and Rooted, non-stacking Stone Armors, Adrenalin Boost applying a self-stun, all the powers in Katana being clones of Broad Sword, Singularity still having the Fold Space icon...
'Updating' is definitely an understatement.
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Which is why they made the COH binder manual/guide/thing.|
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
The CoH manual was in need of an update at Launch. By now, I think just "updating" is a lost cause.
Entirely remaking it would be good, but would also suffer from the same thing the original does: it's subject to turning obsolete due to any change made. |
And updated it - what, once?
That's been a big historical gripe, for me, with the stuff started by either Cryptic (at the time) or perhaps NC - no followup. CCG, died. PnP game, sort of withered. Old EAT mentions - now generally forgotten, even with "hooks" in game. Manual - right, just point people to the wiki, I guess.
I don't see the need for it.
1. How many people actually read the CoH manual, anyway?
2. If you need to read the manual, you're most likely a new player and your character won't be optimized to face purple cons.
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I did when I first started with CoH. Yes, it would only be for new players. Like others have said, I just found it almost somewhat comical looking back at the "time capsule" manual I also had a few giggles on some of the stuff they mentioned. I brought the color code thing up because maybe back in the day, purples were scary. Now, everyone eats them for lunch..heh..heh. I have found that paragonwiki is now the info highway for most of CoH in what I need to know. And yes, by them doing another new current paper manual would always need to be tweaked when new additions are added to the game such as GR and how the alignment system works. Its easier and probably more cost effective just to send someone to a website and being that websites are pretty much liquid information, can always be updated. Though they could still do a .pdf version that anyone can download for nostalgia purposes. |
Originally Posted by Auroxis
I don't see the need for it.
1. How many people actually read the CoH manual, anyway? 2. If you need to read the manual, you're most likely a new player and your character won't be optimized to face purple cons. |
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One of the first things I did when I got the game was go to bed "with a good book" and read the manual from top to bottom. It's not a hard read, really. It's all of about 50 A6 pages, a lot of which are taken up partially or entirely by unnecessarily large pictures.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
I don't see the need for it.
1. How many people actually read the CoH manual, anyway? 2. If you need to read the manual, you're most likely a new player and your character won't be optimized to face purple cons. |
That said, the manual is so out of date it would be pointless to try and update it. It simply is not relevant. I still love seeing Elude described as a power which prevents you from attacking (I assume "only affecting self") when that wasn't the case even by the time I got the game, and I've had the game since a month after release.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The current CoH manual has 181 pages while the current CoV manual has 152 pages.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
One of the first things I did when I got the game was go to bed "with a good book" and read the manual from top to bottom. It's not a hard read, really. It's all of about 50 A6 pages, a lot of which are taken up partially or entirely by unnecessarily large pictures.
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| That said, the manual is so out of date it would be pointless to try and update it. It simply is not relevant. I still love seeing Elude described as a power which prevents you from attacking (I assume "only affecting self") when that wasn't the case even by the time I got the game, and I've had the game since a month after release. |
http://static.plaync.com/media/cox/pdf/CoH_Manual.pdf
http://static.plaync.com/media/cox/pdf/CoV_Manual.pdf
All that needs to be added is the major changes that were added in Issues 16, 18, and 19.
Actually printing an official Game/Strategy Guide like Prima once did
is pointless because this game is constantly evolving with the addition of each free issue and if the guides aren't selling it makes no sense to throw away money on publishing them and any updates. It makes much more sense for them to just update the online guides every couple of issues which everyone can download for free.
I wouldn't object to a complete rewrite tho. It would be nice if the current manuals included info like the Prima guide once did.
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I haven't bought a box since 2005, so probably. But even so, an I14 manual is still very out of date and excludes systems, powersets, locations, enhancements and lists a lot of things that have changed, most specifically the difficulty and sidekick system.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'm sorry Sam but you haven't read the manuals recently. They aren't that far out of date. They include information up to Issue 14.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Agreed. I would love to see them do a detailed up to date free online game guide along the lines of the old Prima Game Strategy Guide. The manuals contain just the bare bones minimum information.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I haven't bought a box since 2005, so probably. But even so, an I14 manual is still very out of date and excludes systems, powersets, locations, enhancements and lists a lot of things that have changed, most specifically the difficulty and sidekick system.
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Personally, I think ParagonWiki and the online Guide to Guides that Zombie Man made are the way to go. The game evolves too fast for a printed manual to ever hope to stay current, but an online resource which can be updated as changes take place can stay perpetually current, especially if updated officially. The developers already seem to endorse ParagonWiki by putting it in the loading tips, after all.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Agreed. I would love to see them do a detailed up to date free online game guide along the lines of the old Prima Game Strategy Guide. The manuals contain just the bare bones minimum information.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You're probably right. Even tho the Wiki and stuff are great tools, I have an old fashioned preference for things I can print and read like a book.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I think ParagonWiki and the online Guide to Guides that Zombie Man made are the way to go. The game evolves too fast for a printed manual to ever hope to stay current, but an online resource which can be updated as changes take place can stay perpetually current, especially if updated officially. The developers already seem to endorse ParagonWiki by putting it in the loading tips, after all.
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Sure, but I don't think that you've just started playing a level 1 character. So while the advice might not work for someone who is experienced and is playing a level 50, I think it holds pretty well for most characters in the 1-10 range (possibly up to 22). The guide is for people who haven't played much.|
Originally Posted by Fusion_7
I just wanted to bring to light the color coding for foes. Take a good look at the purple. "Far ahead of your power level. Do not engage one-on-one. Purples near your level may be successfully engaged in groups". Ahhh seriously?...heh...heh. When I solo that's all I fight are purples.
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Take a look at your suggested revisions and see if that information holds at level 2.
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I stopped reading manuals for MMOs after my 1st. They don't really help because they don't tell you what you *need* to know. And honestly, I wouldn't expect an official manual to give the 'dirty details' of what's what in the game.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
One of the first things I did when I got the game was go to bed "with a good book" and read the manual from top to bottom. It's not a hard read, really. It's all of about 50 A6 pages, a lot of which are taken up partially or entirely by unnecessarily large pictures
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To be honest, back in May of 2004 when I was first starting, I made myself a Kat/SR Scrapper and by about level 6 or level 8 or some such I was already taking out Bone Daddies by myself. If you believe even the original CoH manual that had come with my game box some three days before, I should have needed a team for that, and I really didn't.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
Sure, but I don't think that you've just started playing a level 1 character. So while the advice might not work for someone who is experienced and is playing a level 50, I think it holds pretty well for most characters in the 1-10 range (possibly up to 22). The guide is for people who haven't played much.
Take a look at your suggested revisions and see if that information holds at level 2. |
Way back in the day, the game was conceived of as a VERY traditional tank-n-spank MMO with forced teaming, the "holy trinity," plenty of hunt missions and the belief that people would just "go out of town" and hunt in the hazard zones. A lot of those preconceptions no longer exist, because right out the gate we proved to be both stronger and smarter than the game assumed we were.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It has occurred to me that for some time the CoH Manual might need an update. Without going through what should be added and what should be taken out, I just wanted to bring to light the color coding for foes. Take a good look at the purple. "Far ahead of your power level. Do not engage one-on-one. Purples near your level may be successfully engaged in groups". Ahhh seriously?...heh...heh. When I solo that's all I fight are purples.
Being that this game has a lot of people who solo versus doing team mish'es, I think the color coding for these powers should go something like this:
GRAY COLOR:
Can crush them like bugs soloing. No contest what-so-ever. See them scatter like ants! Significantly less powerful than you.
GREEN COLOR:
Seriously, you should have no problem with these guys soloing. You can swat them like flies. Substantially less powerful than you.
BLUE COLOR:
Can take on solo very easily. Can be engaged in groups but just don't be sleeping while doing so. Much less powerful than you.
WHITE COLOR:
Same power level as you. Should be able to handle several at once based on your archetype and powers. Might have some issues with single enemies now and then.
YELLOW COLOR:
Slightly ahead of your power level. Combat-oriented hero's should have no problem engaging solo and depending on your archetype and powers, can engage in large groups but heed very cautiously.
ORANGE COLOR:
Substantially ahead of your power level. Only those who are skilled in combat can engage one-on-one and based on your archetype and powers
can engage in smaller groups but take extreme caution when doing so.
RED COLOR:
Significantly ahead of your power level. Should only be engaged one-on-one based on your archetype and powers and how skilled you are in combat. Would highly recommend not to engage in groups unless you have the game to do so. Even then, it will be tough going.
PURPLE COLOR:
Take great caution as they are far ahead of your power level. Can be engaged solo depending on your archetype and powers. If soloing and approached in groups, survivability will be very slim. Would suggest a team to fight large groups.