You'll probably have better luck with the stalker version because of the higher single target damage.
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I've not heard of anyone doing it, but that in and of itself does not meant it cannot be done.
Good luck.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade! Hmm... stalker for killing AVs? Is it possible??? I'll have to hop over to the stalker boards and see what I can find. Stalkers would have higher damage than scrappers even when they are outside of hide or did you mean higher overall damage using the placate, attack, repeat method? : )
Quote:
I've soloed a couple of AVs on my KM/WP Stalker. However, it should be mentioned, the stalker version has higher DPS on paper, pulling off a Placate -> Assassin Strike to achieve that higher DPS however, is not easy, even with softcapped defenses, since it's interruptable and the slightest movement on your part can kill the AS.|
Originally Posted by SuperT
Hmm... stalker for killing AVs? Is it possible??? I'll have to hop over to the stalker boards and see what I can find. Stalkers would have higher damage than scrappers even when they are outside of hide or did you mean higher overall damage using the placate, attack, repeat method? : )
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And it's not like Assassin Strike becomes a regular part of one's attack chain either.
As for Scrapper version, yes, you can build to get the DPS. Will you beable to take on EVERY AV? No. Will you still be able to take out quite a few? Yes! I'd also suggest going with Fire Mastery, as it's single target blast is better DPS than some of Electric Melee's single target attacks.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Good points!! I made a couple of quick elec/invuln builds and I think I might be sacrificing a little damage output to soft cap defense. I'm hoping the damage alpha would close the gap on that. I think elec/invuln would be a great fit for me and being able to smack down a handful of AVs would definitely be enjoyable and I'd still have some good aoe for the occasional farming and badge hunting (lightning rod to kill countless numbers of specific enemies makes defeat badges more tolerable to achieve - lol), as well as team play.
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It's not just the Placate>AS thing; Electric is a special set, as you can do a certain chunk of your attack chain and go back into hide without using placate. So you can do | I've soloed a couple of AVs on my KM/WP Stalker. However, it should be mentioned, the stalker version has higher DPS on paper, pulling off a Placate -> Assassin Strike to achieve that higher DPS however, is not easy, even with softcapped defenses, since it's interruptable and the slightest movement on your part can kill the AS. |
Placate>AS>Caltrops/Waterspout>Build Up>Lightning Rod>AS
and get two full Assassin's Shocks without stopping, while other sets can only get one every time placate is up. This is because Lightning Rod is designated as a summoned pet, not direct damage from you. Inserting the game's highest melee single target dps attack twice as often tends to help a bit against AV's.
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Quote:
AS is not the highest melee ST dps attack. Burst damage? Yeah, but dps, no.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Inserting the game's highest melee single target dps attack twice as often tends to help a bit against AV's.
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Tbh if you really wanted to do elec melee with strong ST dmg I would make it a brute just so you can have Gloom for your attack chain.
Quote:
Well, for Electric Melee, Assassin Strike is better than what would normally be in ELM's DPS chain. But it wouldn't be used as a normal part of the chain.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
AS is not the highest melee ST dps attack. Burst damage? Yeah, but dps, no.
Tbh if you really wanted to do elec melee with strong ST dmg I would make it a brute just so you can have Gloom for your attack chain. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
With three lvl 50 Damage IO's, from hidden, with buildup, AS does 355.17 dps|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
AS is not the highest melee ST dps attack. Burst damage? Yeah, but dps, no.
Tbh if you really wanted to do elec melee with strong ST dmg I would make it a brute just so you can have Gloom for your attack chain. |
Midnight's Grasp with fully saturated Soul Drain and 3 lvl 50 IO's does not touch that, neither does Greater Fire Sword with Build Up (picking somewhat randomly; if there is a better dps attack available, compare that). Only after you start adding in a bunch of other +damage from, say, shields, can you get closer to that. The only thing I found at a glance that could out do it is a Brute's Seismic Smash with Build Up and a bunch of Fury.
An elec melee brute with gloom would be my second choice.
What normally lowers the dps value of AS is using placate with it, which makes its effective animation time longer. What I'm trying to say is that with Electric melee you can skip that by doing Caltrops/Waterspout>Build Up>Lightning Rod>AS every time Build Up and LR are recharged. Those should actually be a part of your normal attack chain anyway, as LR is one of the highest dps attacks elec melee has, and caltrops or waterspout both do some ok damage over time. So you do that when those things are recharged, and when they aren't you follow the normal chain of Chain Induction>Charged Brawl>Jacob's Ladder>Charged Brawl.
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Great stuff guys! It sounds like stalker elec melée is very doable but... Stalkers don't have invuln which was the secondary of choice for me. Super reflexes, ninjutsu, oh and maybe energy aura are really the only other options as far as soft capping defense which I see as a must have for AV fighting and, personally, I dont want to go with any of those. Like someone else mentioned, what about elec melee/invuln brute? Defense/resistance should be slightly higher than a scrapper version, plus fighting an AV over time will build up the fury bar so wouldn't that create enough damage almost comparable to scrapper?
Well I started an elec/inv scrapper if I get to 50 and get my IO plan completed I try to solo the av and let you know
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Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Quote:
You're not factoring in the cast time of AS (3 secs non-arcanatime on elec melee) and the negative dps of setting up AS. Even at 253% rchg in AS you will have gaps in your chain by using waterspout, caltrops, and BU to fill that gap, and you should be using BU before the first AS anyways. Further, Waterspout would only be available once every 50-60 seconds, so your supposed chain could only be used every once and a while. And since you're not using placate to AS there is always the chance that you get hit in the time that you are trying to rehide, which means you just wasted a good 4-6 seconds. |
Originally Posted by Microcosm
With three lvl 50 Damage IO's, from hidden, with buildup, AS does 355.17 dps
Midnight's Grasp with fully saturated Soul Drain and 3 lvl 50 IO's does not touch that, neither does Greater Fire Sword with Build Up (picking somewhat randomly; if there is a better dps attack available, compare that). Only after you start adding in a bunch of other +damage from, say, shields, can you get closer to that. The only thing I found at a glance that could out do it is a Brute's Seismic Smash with Build Up and a bunch of Fury. An elec melee brute with gloom would be my second choice. What normally lowers the dps value of AS is using placate with it, which makes its effective animation time longer. What I'm trying to say is that with Electric melee you can skip that by doing Caltrops/Waterspout>Build Up>Lightning Rod>AS every time Build Up and LR are recharged. Those should actually be a part of your normal attack chain anyway, as LR is one of the highest dps attacks elec melee has, and caltrops or waterspout both do some ok damage over time. So you do that when those things are recharged, and when they aren't you follow the normal chain of Chain Induction>Charged Brawl>Jacob's Ladder>Charged Brawl. |
Going back to dps, as you said "assassins strike has the highest dps in the game". Assuming 99.08% dmg and 83.32% rchg in each attack with 0% global dmg buff, charged brawl sits at 116.3 dps, havoc punch at 96 dps, and assassin strike at 86.8 dps. With that said when you toss in IOs Charged Brawl and Havoc punch will benefit alot more than AS from damage procs. dps != dpa
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The confusion has to be that I am talking about dpa, damage over activation time {3.168 seconds arcana}, not over its recharge or whatever. I always refer to that as dps because the recharge time thing is not usually significant to me.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
You're not factoring in the cast time of AS (3 secs non-arcanatime on elec melee) and the negative dps of setting up AS. Even at 253% rchg in AS you will have gaps in your chain by using waterspout, caltrops, and BU to fill that gap, and you should be using BU before the first AS anyways. Further, Waterspout would only be available once every 50-60 seconds, so your supposed chain could only be used every once and a while. And since you're not using placate to AS there is always the chance that you get hit in the time that you are trying to rehide, which means you just wasted a good 4-6 seconds.
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That chain is not the whole chain, it's just what you do every time buildup and lightning rod are available, which could be ~26ish seconds with a lot of recharge. You use waterspout when it is up, but otherwise you use caltrops so you don't have to wait for waterspout's really long recharge (which is why I put it Caltrops/Waterspout).
Facing one opponent, the AV, with softcapped defense and the knockdown of Lightning Rod, it is extremely unlikely that you will get hit and be interrupted, actually. I do this all the time. Even if you do get hit though, you just continue with the normal chain (CI>CB>JL>CB). You should be using buildup, lightning rod and waterspout when they are available anyway with that chain too, so there is no wasted time except for what part of the AS animation you went through before getting interrupted.
I hope that clears up what I am saying.
OP, Elec/invuln should be fun; I'd take the blast brandx mentioned with an elec scrapper.
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Well, I finally got my elec/invuln scrapper up to 50 and IO'd (the joy of having 2 accounts and being able to PL myself). I figured I'd go for my first test against an AV and, going in, my main concern was damage output. I chose to go against Marauder. I'm not sure if he is the best AV to test a build against but I always like fighting him b/c he just looks powerful and killing him is always satisfying...
Well, needless to say, having soft capped defense and very good S/L resistance, I was able to stand toe-to-toe with him no problem... but my concern of damage output or lack of became a reality. My electric attacks barely made a dent in him... I only have my elec attacks (I didn't take any epic pool attacks). I'm not sure what, if any, attack chains would work. I tried different combos but with lightning rod at a 30 second recharge and thunder strike feeling so slow animation wise I just don't see being able to take him out. Maybe damage alpha would help but it doesn't seem likely... I'll try another AV or two to see what kind of results I get.
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I would try to get quite a bit of rech, probably will need +rech Alpha too. Run Chain Induction, CB, Jacobs ladder, CB. With Hecatomb in CB (and another proc), Armageddon and the -resist proc in JL, that chain should do some pretty decent damage.
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Originally Posted by SuperT
Well, I finally got my elec/invuln scrapper up to 50 and IO'd (the joy of having 2 accounts and being able to PL myself). I figured I'd go for my first test against an AV and, going in, my main concern was damage output. I chose to go against Marauder. I'm not sure if he is the best AV to test a build against but I always like fighting him b/c he just looks powerful and killing him is always satisfying...
Well, needless to say, having soft capped defense and very good S/L resistance, I was able to stand toe-to-toe with him no problem... but my concern of damage output or lack of became a reality. My electric attacks barely made a dent in him... I only have my elec attacks (I didn't take any epic pool attacks). I'm not sure what, if any, attack chains would work. I tried different combos but with lightning rod at a 30 second recharge and thunder strike feeling so slow animation wise I just don't see being able to take him out. Maybe damage alpha would help but it doesn't seem likely... I'll try another AV or two to see what kind of results I get. |
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Quote:
I was looking at my build today what chain are you using for elec|
Originally Posted by SuperT
Well, I finally got my elec/invuln scrapper up to 50 and IO'd (the joy of having 2 accounts and being able to PL myself). I figured I'd go for my first test against an AV and, going in, my main concern was damage output. I chose to go against Marauder. I'm not sure if he is the best AV to test a build against but I always like fighting him b/c he just looks powerful and killing him is always satisfying...
Well, needless to say, having soft capped defense and very good S/L resistance, I was able to stand toe-to-toe with him no problem... but my concern of damage output or lack of became a reality. My electric attacks barely made a dent in him... I only have my elec attacks (I didn't take any epic pool attacks). I'm not sure what, if any, attack chains would work. I tried different combos but with lightning rod at a 30 second recharge and thunder strike feeling so slow animation wise I just don't see being able to take him out. Maybe damage alpha would help but it doesn't seem likely... I'll try another AV or two to see what kind of results I get. |
Back in the early elec conversion Broken Prey came up with the best dps chain
Chain Induction/Charge Brawl/Jacob's Ladder/Charge Brawl (this gives you about 130-150 dps)
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...highlight=Elec
So if you go with this chain and two purple sets Hetacomb and adding a second proc in the attack and in JL going with Armageddon and adding the -res debuff proc or another dmg proc (on the 6th slot) would you get enough dps
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Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
oh ok, thanks!
I'll have to give that a shot. At the moment I don't have jacob's ladder and was going with CB, havoc punch, CB, chain induction while throwing in thunder strike and lightning rod. Are you talking about the Fury of the Gladiator Res debuff? I can definitely move some stuff around and get hecatomb and armageddon in those attacks.
My energy and negative defense wont be soft capped any more (probably be around 35%) but I'll still have smashing, lethal, cold, and fire hovering around 45.5%. Plus, the extra recharge from those purple sets will definitely help my attacks, at well as build up, etc. come up a bit faster too.
Quote:
Yes I asked because it is expensive and I am not sure how much it will help it be better if you could have put it in Charge brawl but you can not so JL is an option. You could just add a extra damage proc so you have two damage procs in CB and JL so you have options that may help boost your damage enough.
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Originally Posted by SuperT
oh ok, thanks!
I'll have to give that a shot. At the moment I don't have jacob's ladder and was going with CB, havoc punch, CB, chain induction while throwing in thunder strike and lightning rod. Are you talking about the Fury of the Gladiator Res debuff? I can definitely move some stuff around and get hecatomb and armageddon in those attacks. My energy and negative defense wont be soft capped any more (probably be around 35%) but I'll still have smashing, lethal, cold, and fire hovering around 45.5%. Plus, the extra recharge from those purple sets will definitely help my attacks, at well as build up, etc. come up a bit faster too. |
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Quote:
Hejtmane has it exactly right. While Lightning Rod is good to use whenever it is up, Thunderstrike is really bad against just a single target and is probably hurting your dps rather than helping.
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Originally Posted by SuperT
oh ok, thanks!
I'll have to give that a shot. At the moment I don't have jacob's ladder and was going with CB, havoc punch, CB, chain induction while throwing in thunder strike and lightning rod. Are you talking about the Fury of the Gladiator Res debuff? I can definitely move some stuff around and get hecatomb and armageddon in those attacks. |
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Hi,
I love the challenge of fighting AVs and wanted to know if anyone has had any success killing AVs with elec melee? I know there are other powersets that are better for the job but I personally enjoy elec melee more than any other set.
I was thinking of pairing it up with Invuln (soft capping S/L/C/F), using dull pain as my heal and conserve power as my end management (if needed).