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Yes it does. I did some testing a while back and found that damage is reduced for lower tier pets in two ways:|
Originally Posted by Jordon_Justice
Does the DMG scale off of which tier pet you use to blow up?
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1. The purple patch reduces damage since the lower tier pets are lower level
2. The lower tier pets have a lower base damage for detonator (I can't remember how much lower, sorry)
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| Ive nopticed that the DMG most of the time is roughly equivalent to two trip mines going off at the exact same time, seems like pretty awesome quick DMG correct? |
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| If i do get this power how should i slot it? |
Huh. I just got my bots/traps to 38. Was planning to ignore this, but... if it uses the pet's acc/dam, that makes it a lot more viable to use, because my pets have plenty of acc/dam already. And I often have one nearly-dead battle drone that's wandered into melee.
How quickly does it activate? If I click on it, will the bot usually blow up, or will it die before it blows up?
Nevermind. No amount of functionality can trump how funny it is.
Next up:
Is it possible to create a macro that will blow up a specific named bot rather than requiring me to first have manually targeted the bot? I'm fine with a macro that first targets a given bot, then blows it up. I just want to be able to do it quickly, and have one macro per bot.
... Ideally, coupled with petsayname <bot> MISTRESS, WHY AM I TICKING?
Thanks to a /hc participant:
/macro S1! "petselectname SHOVER-01 $$ petsayname SHOVER-01 Mistress, why am I ticking? $$ powexecname Detonator"
Why does it take targeted AoE damage enhancements if they don't work?
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I would guess that the not using enhancements is unintended behavior. Presumably when the power was designed the dev who did it misunderstood how the "Grant" function worked and intended for the power to use the enhancements slotted in Detonator. Why the devs never fixed this I don't know, perhaps they felt that removing it would cause confusion to players or maybe they are hoping to find a technical solution to fix it. When Issue 9 came out I imagine it got tagged to take TAoE and Knockback sets since those are the "correct" types for it to get based on the regular enhancement types it can take.
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Originally Posted by seebs
Why does it take targeted AoE damage enhancements if they don't work?
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I completely agree with you regarding the one pet wandering off.. I have no rats backside clue why but it's always one tier one pet.. After he dies it appears as if the rest fall in line fearing his fate.. If one pet is going to always run off and die, I would rather control his fate.
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Originally Posted by seebs
Huh. I just got my bots/traps to 38. Was planning to ignore this, but... if it uses the pet's acc/dam, that makes it a lot more viable to use, because my pets have plenty of acc/dam already. And I often have one nearly-dead battle drone that's wandered into melee.
How quickly does it activate? If I click on it, will the bot usually blow up, or will it die before it blows up? |
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Ok for the curious, I found my notes. So based on my testing (using a level 43 Bots/Traps MM) the approximate base damage for the different pets at level 43 is as follows (note this is base damage before applying the effects of both enhancements and the purple patch):
Battle Drones: 114.6
Protector Bots: 144
Assault Bot: 172.75
I can't say for sure how much extra it would do at level 50 (since I respecced out of it before reaching that) but normal characters do about 4.45% more damage at level 50 compared to level 43 so I imagine it's the same (if someone has the damage scalars for MM pets we could check).
In any case my main point is that the drones do about 66.5% of the damage of the Assault Bot (or about 53.2% of the damage after accounting for the purple patch) and protector bots do about 83.4% of the damage (or about 75.1% after purple patch).
I figure it's thematically worth a slot even if it's not a very good fit, and the damage is more than the battle drone will do being dead.
Might go to Test and just play around with it and get some current numbers. Also play around with the sets to see if matters.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
I like Detonator.
Sure it's a 'more or less' worthless power, but [especially since fitness went inherent]
I've got the extra power pick (I don't bother slotting it with extra slots) and it's a bit
of extra damage out of a minion that's going down anyway . . .
Besides it makes me giggle like a little schoolgirl every time I use it.
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
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I did not know this. Something to keep in mind whenever I respec.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Yes it does. I did some testing a while back and found that damage is reduced for lower tier pets in two ways:
1. The purple patch reduces damage since the lower tier pets are lower level 2. The lower tier pets have a lower base damage for detonator (I can't remember how much lower, sorry) Recharge only unless you want some set bonuses. Accuracy and Damage enhancements in it do not work and instead it uses the accuracy and damage enhancements slotted in the pet. |
Most things I'd read said the power was basically worthless and not worth a slot. Then when inherent fitness came along I just took it on a lark (only default slot). Then I used it with a minion who was about to die...
Holy Crap! It killed half the crowd of mobs outright, severely damaged the rest, and sent most of them flying away, giving me some breathing room! I thought it was awesomesauce. Messed with it a bit more and really liked what I saw, so respecced and 4-slotted it for more recharge and some set bonus.
I use it pretty regularly now, following the basic guidelines of: 1) the pet to use it must be low on health and I can't readily heal him, 2) the pet must be closely engaged with several mobs. I also tend to not use it when on large teams, but the above conditions occur readily enough, the results are spectacular, and I was gonna have to resummon that pet anyway. All Win, baby
I've never tried it, but ISTR reading that feeding red insps to your pet before blowing him up affects detonation's damage?
I've been meaning to try this power out for a while, maybe I'll make use of that 3rd build...
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So... is this really true then. I'm reading conflicting things in guides/articles. Currently I have Detonator 4-slotted: 2 Rchg, 1 Acc, 1 Dmg. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
...Recharge only unless you want some set bonuses. Accuracy and Damage enhancements in it do not work and instead it uses the accuracy and damage enhancements slotted in the pet.
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Is the Acc & Dmg absolutely wasted? Should I respect and only have it 2-slotted for Recharge (3rd recharge only gives me a about 20 more seconds, can live without that)? Or are there two good IOs/Procs that will do some good?
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Correct, damage buffs on your pet (so inspirations, Supremacy, Assault etc.) get applied to the explosion.
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Originally Posted by anonymoose
I've never tried it, but ISTR reading that feeding red insps to your pet before blowing him up affects detonation's damage?
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Based on my testing Damage and Accuracy slotting did nothing when used with Robotics. Here's my methodology, in case you're curious. I did a total of 12 tests, 4 with each tier of pet against the same enemy type (the Crey suit wearing security minions who have no resistances). With each pet the four tests were:|
Originally Posted by Socorro
So... is this really true then. I'm reading conflicting things in guides/articles. Currently I have Detonator 4-slotted: 2 Rchg, 1 Acc, 1 Dmg.
Is the Acc & Dmg absolutely wasted? Should I respect and only have it 2-slotted for Recharge (3rd recharge only gives me a about 20 more seconds, can live without that)? Or are there two good IOs/Procs that will do some good? |
1. No damage slotting in Detonator, no damage buffs on pet
2. No damage slotting in Detonator, Assault and Supremacy buffs on pet
3. 1 SO damage slotting in Detonator, no damage buffs on pet
4. 1 SO damage slotting in Detonator, Assault and Supremacy buffs on pet
The result was that for each pet the damage from tests 1 and 3 were the same and tests 2 and 4 were the same. Additionally the differences in damage between the no-buff tests (1 and 3) and the buffed tests (2 and 4) resulted in the same base damage only if the damage slotting in the pet was plugged into the equation.
Based on that I am confident in saying that Damage/Accuracy/Knockback slotting does not work in detonator at least for the non-human pet version (I think that this would also hold true for the human-pet version but can't say for sure).
Also as a side note this testing was based solely on the Non-Human version of Detonator. The Human pet version (used by Thugs, Ninjas and Mercs) is technically a different power and as such may work differently. Going by the redtomax power description it looks like the Human pet version summons a fixed pseudo-pet rather than being an attack launched from the pet itself. This would suggest the following differences to me:
1. Damage buffs may not work on it
2. The damage scaling from lower tier pets will only be due to the purple patch, it will not exhibit the reduced base damage I saw (which is caused by the pet damage scalars being used.
3. The damage is higher (assuming redtomax is correct).
Unfortunately I don't have a MM I can test this on, but if someone else does and wants to test it I'd be fascinated in the results.
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Interesting... I'll try to set up a test with my Thugs MM similiar to what you've done. Might not get to it tonight, but will try soon and post results (if someone else doesn't sooner)|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Based on my testing Damage and Accuracy slotting did nothing when used with Robotics. Here's my methodology, in case you're curious. I did a total of 12 tests, 4 with each tier of pet against the same enemy type (the Crey suit wearing security minions who have no resistances). With each pet the four tests were:
1. No damage slotting in Detonator, no damage buffs on pet 2. No damage slotting in Detonator, Assault and Supremacy buffs on pet 3. 1 SO damage slotting in Detonator, no damage buffs on pet 4. 1 SO damage slotting in Detonator, Assault and Supremacy buffs on pet The result was that for each pet the damage from tests 1 and 3 were the same and tests 2 and 4 were the same. Additionally the differences in damage between the no-buff tests (1 and 3) and the buffed tests (2 and 4) resulted in the same base damage only if the damage slotting in the pet was plugged into the equation. Based on that I am confident in saying that Damage/Accuracy/Knockback slotting does not work in detonator at least for the non-human pet version (I think that this would also hold true for the human-pet version but can't say for sure). Also as a side note this testing was based solely on the Non-Human version of Detonator. The Human pet version (used by Thugs, Ninjas and Mercs) is technically a different power and as such may work differently. Going by the redtomax power description it looks like the Human pet version summons a fixed pseudo-pet rather than being an attack launched from the pet itself. This would suggest the following differences to me: 1. Damage buffs may not work on it 2. The damage scaling from lower tier pets will only be due to the purple patch, it will not exhibit the reduced base damage I saw (which is caused by the pet damage scalars being used. 3. The damage is higher (assuming redtomax is correct). Unfortunately I don't have a MM I can test this on, but if someone else does and wants to test it I'd be fascinated in the results. |
Thanks mucho for your help
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Awesome. If you need any help with testing methodology or data analysis feel free to drop me a line.
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Originally Posted by Socorro
Interesting... I'll try to set up a test with my Thugs MM similiar to what you've done. Might not get to it tonight, but will try soon and post results (if someone else doesn't sooner)
Thanks mucho for your help |
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Real life (and the fact of the one time I could get on for an extended period I plain forgot haha) has prevented my testing so far, hopefully will get to experiment soon.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Awesome. If you need any help with testing methodology or data analysis feel free to drop me a line.
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Alright... did a little experimenting with Detonator slotting to see the effects of enhancments. I'm 4-slotted Detonator with 1 lv50 gen io damage in it.
In Cap, I walked up to a lvl 14 luddite hacker, used one of my lowly minions to set Detonator right off at his feet.
Results: 1505.46 lethal, 1254.55 fire on the tech hating idiot.
look around and found another lvl 14 luddint hacker, got another of my minion up next to him, removed the Damage IO from Detonator, and had him set it off
Results: 1505.46 lethal, 1254.55 fire
Exact same damage!! Looks like it's true that damage and accuracy enhancements in Detonator do not help at all.
IMO, the Devs really shouldn't let this sit. In the meantime, I suppose I'll respec to remove those wasted slots (or maybe try to use it as a mule for a good IO set)
Sucks, really. Still, am please with power overall
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I'm stealing this. Can I steal this? Because I'm stealing this.|
Originally Posted by seebs
Thanks to a /hc participant:
/macro S1! "petselectname SHOVER-01 $$ petsayname SHOVER-01 Mistress, why am I ticking? $$ powexecname Detonator" |
I just started a Bots/Traps MM last night, and I wasn't wholly sold on Traps. This sold me.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
It's not that the power is all that USEFUL, it's just that the power is AWESOME.
That said, traps really is joy. No attack powers, everything in /traps, no repair, some cool pool powers, and I can usually solo at x8 while watching TV. Only time I really got screwed on it, the issue was that for reasons I don't understand a CoT map had chosen to include a number of elite bosses, even though I was set for no bosses while soloing. (It was an AE mission, but I'm pretty sure the mission didn't have elite bosses the last time I ran it. It's the Johny Sonata and the Hitmen chain, the CoT one in the cave.)
Slot /traps decently, get a couple of the pet defense/res IOs (shame about the lack of a Recharge-Intensive Pets power), laugh as the robots destroy your enemies.
The highlight of bots/traps is every time an NPC in a mission says "Do you think you're a match for me?" Because any time you can answer a question with "Unstoppable robot army." that means it was a GOOD day.
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Thanks for checking. Also, this seems to confirm my theory that base damage of the human version of Detonator does not scale with pet type unlike the non-human version. If you have a chance to verify it with one of the other pet tiers I'd appreciate it.
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Originally Posted by Socorro
Alright... did a little experimenting with Detonator slotting to see the effects of enhancments. I'm 4-slotted Detonator with 1 lv50 gen io damage in it.
In Cap, I walked up to a lvl 14 luddite hacker, used one of my lowly minions to set Detonator right off at his feet. Results: 1505.46 lethal, 1254.55 fire on the tech hating idiot. look around and found another lvl 14 luddint hacker, got another of my minion up next to him, removed the Damage IO from Detonator, and had him set it off Results: 1505.46 lethal, 1254.55 fire Exact same damage!! Looks like it's true that damage and accuracy enhancements in Detonator do not help at all. IMO, the Devs really shouldn't let this sit. In the meantime, I suppose I'll respec to remove those wasted slots (or maybe try to use it as a mule for a good IO set) Sucks, really. Still, am please with power overall |
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Oh yeah, I meant to also post further experimenting I did along these lines. Again using a lvl 14 luddite hacker at the guinea pig, I had one my Lieutenant Enforcers set off detonator. Now, my Tier 1 punks are slotted better than my Tier 2 Enforcers (punks have full Absolute Amazement set), but even so I expected that, if Detonator was influenced by Pet Tier level, then Enforcers (being well slotted also) would still do more damage overall.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Thanks for checking. Also, this seems to confirm my theory that base damage of the human version of Detonator does not scale with pet type unlike the non-human version. If you have a chance to verify it with one of the other pet tiers I'd appreciate it.
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Nope, Detonator from Enforcers did damage in high 1400s lethal and low 1200s Fire; don't remember the exact numbers but it was certainly lower than what my punks did. My suspicion is that all Tiers do the same damage and Punks did slightly more because due to better Enhancments.
One thing is certain, I won't use detonator with anything but Punks anymore unless someone else comes up with conclusive evidence to counter to my suspicion.
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How much different is the slotting? One thing to keep in mind is that you're fighting enemies a lot lower level than you so the difference in purple patch effects could easily be getting lost in the noise. I'd suggest testing against an even con enemy since the effects of the purple patch should be more noticeable.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
Oh yeah, I meant to also post further experimenting I did along these lines. Again using a lvl 14 luddite hacker at the guinea pig, I had one my Lieutenant Enforcers set off detonator. Now, my Tier 1 punks are slotted better than my Tier 2 Enforcers (punks have full Absolute Amazement set), but even so I expected that, if Detonator was influenced by Pet Tier level, then Enforcers (being well slotted also) would still do more damage overall.
Nope, Detonator from Enforcers did damage in high 1400s lethal and low 1200s Fire; don't remember the exact numbers but it was certainly lower than what my punks did. My suspicion is that all Tiers do the same damage and Punks did slightly more because due to better Enhancments. One thing is certain, I won't use detonator with anything but Punks anymore unless someone else comes up with conclusive evidence to counter to my suspicion. |
Now it's entirely plausible that Time Bomb is immune to the effects of the purple patch that would suggest to me that pseudo pets summoned by MM pets are spawned at the MM's level instead of the pet's level.
EDIT: I just logged onto my Bots/Traps and confirmed that the seeker drones from the Protector Bots do spawn at the pet's level.
Ah yes before everyone jumps me, i know that this has been brought up several several times, and ive done my reading and got conflicting reports.
What I need to know is...
Does the DMG scale off of which tier pet you use to blow up?
Has anyone had a positive experience with this power and urges me to keep it? or should it be yet another skip power to get something else?
Ive nopticed that the DMG most of the time is roughly equivalent to two trip mines going off at the exact same time, seems like pretty awesome quick DMG correct?
If i do get this power how should i slot it?
Jordon Justice