What I want and expect out of PvP
Grower.. I really like this post and wish more PvE only players that turn their nose up at PvP would feel the same way, or at least consider this line of thinking. I say well said, and that you have the right general idea of things. It's not quite as simple as you put it (i.e. in a 1v1 fight certain controllers will still wreck the hell out of a solo opponent - but that really depends on who is fighting what with who), but you've taken your first step into a larger world. >.>
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
This may be so but 85% of that playstyle is easy enough for a mentally handicapped retarded monkey child to accomplish. So, it really only comes down to 5% skill and the remaining 10% gadgets/ build.
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Believe it or not... the playstyle that is Pew Pew SS/SJ/ Ldrshp/ Pew Pew [escape power] rinse and repeat... is not the only effective one.
To the OP:
You must realize that you are the intended target of "the change."
The good news is that the system was designed with your mentality in mind.
The bad news is that it will probably be another two years before the PvP player base recognizes that if they all thought the way you do... PvP wouldn't be as dull as it is.
If you want my "bad advice" keep doing what your're doing and do it as best as you can. Be the change you wish to see in the game <--- Real Talk.
Define your success in PvP as a troller - as one who doesn't aim to get kills... but aims to make kills easier to get for those specialized in DPS/Damage/Kills/etc...
Make sacrafices in your build to get the most out of your purpose and be happy with them despite the ignorance (and trash talk) of PvP'ers around you that have no clue how to benefit from what you offer.
You will suffer from this at first... but in the end you will prevail. In the end... you will find a few smart PvP'ers that understand what it is that you do that makes what they do work better, and happen more often. Damage dealers will adore you for this. Buffers will protect you for this.
Understand and pay attention to the playstlyes around you. It isn't PvE but the mentality of a CC toon should not diminsih because of this. Should you use your hold to start a spike or should you reserve it to use before your target tries to use there escape power? CC still exists and is just as important in PvP as it is in PvE. The timing of powers used is one of the adjustments a controller has to master before reaching the levels of CC they expect based on PvE experience.
Finally, learn form your mistakes and never die the same way twice. Desipte what many will tell you here on the boards... Evasion is not tied to any specific AT or build. You will be targeted because you are a squishy with little offfense and the ability to get people killed if left undisturbed, and you will die more often than others because of this. This unfortunate fact only means that your troller's playstyle must be highly skilled at evasion.
What you desire from PvP is honorable, understandable and /signed by me.
Sadly said and simply put... you won't get what you desire from PvP until there are a few hundred more like yourself.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
I like this thread. Aside from the above posters concern about other APvPers not realizing the 'correct' way to play, there is also the issue of balance that is just not being addressed (e.g. Sharks). I dont know how long a controllers mez should last, but I do know that if a stalker AS's for 400 damage with a crit, he should not be able to crit with sharks from 80 range for 300+. That's just my 2 cents as an inexperienced CoX PvPer.
All in all, I like this thread, and agree with a lot (but not all) of what the OP posted.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
First, an introduction. I am not a PvPer. I am a veteran PvE player, started in 2005. My personal view is that the success of any build is 90% playstyle and only 10% gadgets, and I pride myself in being able to take on content that I really shouldn't be able to take on with a mismatched, undersized or nonexistant team. My main is a Controller. I have dabbled in PvP both before and after "The Change", and have found it generally undesireable in both cases. But I WANT to PvP - I want the PvP in the zone descriptions and literature where fighting is fun and challenging, and danger lurks around every corner. In short, I am the *potential PvPer* that everyone seems to be waiting to start PvPing.
Second, a disclaimer; this post is not written by someone with an encyclopedic knowledge of the details of PvP. I don't play it much, so I might make mistakes in a few things I state. I know the PvP community values verbal combat as much as pixellated, and I am eager for constructive counterposts. What this is, is an explanation of what I expect out of the PvP I *want* to play, from the mindset of someone who never really enjoyed what we had, pre or post The Change. There is an idea that seems to be popular, where every archetype should be able to fight every other archetype and stand a reasonable chance. The idea is that my controller should be able to go into a PvP zone or an arena match and fight on an even playing field with a brute, scrapper, mastermind or stalker. I used to think I liked this idea. But today I realised that this idea is what is wrong with PvP as designed. CoX was designed as a team based game, with limited solo options. Stupid stupid AI has allowed those solo options to grow, and now people expect them out of PvP as well. This is wrong. If the PvE enemies were player controlled, my controller would not stand a bloody chance without a team. This is what PvP should be like. I do not expect my controller to go to RV and stand toe to toe with a brute and take him down in a reasonable amount of time. I expect to hold that brute for a really long time until his friends come and kill me, and maybe get him down to half health before that happens. He can't hurt me, or move. I can't kill him. Pointless for both of us without a team. If I had a blaster teammate, he loses. If he has a dominator teammate, I lose. The world spins on, and on and on. *I do not expect to survive most PvP solo, with any character or build* *I want any character or build I play to be able to do their job on a PvP team, and not be muzzled to enable half *****, artificial feeling solo play* Besides intelligent tactics, the primary difference between what is possible in PvE and in PvP is the use of inspirations. If Malta had breakfrees, they would have already taken over the earth. Therefore, the way PvP should be balanced is not through making all the powers do different things for no reason, it is through changing inspirations and the way they work. I would like to see PvP specific inspiration functions, or inspirations be removed from PvP. If I can hold people and they can't just shrug it off over and over and over again, I don't need some wierd *** artificial damage and HP boost to be competitive - I just need a teammate to actually kill the people I hold before I get counterattacked. *I want the people I hold who have no mez protection, to stay the $@$# held for more than two seconds* *I do not expect a controller to stand a chance in PvP without the ability to lock down any more than I do in PvE, that's why she's a controller* In short, you can't redesign a team based game into a one-on-one game and still retain any of the original design elements. So don't try. CoX is a team game. Play it that way. Build it that way. This means that the controller vs blaster match in the arena is going to be a really boring 4 minute long fight where the blaster uses their first two attack powers over and over while the controller tries to slowly crush the blaster with rocks - very slowly. Yes, that is silly - so don't play controller vs blaster matches. Don't redesign the whole damned game and add a bunch of wierd stupid alternate power functions to make that match kind of fun after you read the PvP specific game manual. No one wants to read the manual. Just let us play the game! I used to avoid PvP because I wanted to solo it and win every battle, and I couldn't. Now I avoid PvP because I can solo it, but my character plays like a broken copy of everyone else's character, and every power is either just a damage power with different graphics, or pointless. Let the archetypes do what they do. Stalkers gank, controllers mez, etc. This is the way of things. Us PvEers need to stop trying to solo PvP for the badge and street cred, find a buddy and dive in. I really hope that we are given a PvP worth diving into in the next couple of issues. And not one we have to relearn the game to play. |
I like you.
All my ATs are based around team PvP as I come from MMOs where each AT have their unique place on a team. Unfortunately most PvPers these days are fiteclubbers the sad thing is that they are in complete denial about being fiteclubbers and these are the league people. Just look at all the psi/ems running around dueling.
Keep your mindset. Maybe one day a MMO with a PvP system worth your time will come around.
First, an introduction. I am not a PvPer. I am a veteran PvE player, started in 2005. My personal view is that the success of any build is 90% playstyle and only 10% gadgets, and I pride myself in being able to take on content that I really shouldn't be able to take on with a mismatched, undersized or nonexistant team. My main is a Controller. I have dabbled in PvP both before and after "The Change", and have found it generally undesireable in both cases. But I WANT to PvP - I want the PvP in the zone descriptions and literature where fighting is fun and challenging, and danger lurks around every corner. In short, I am the *potential PvPer* that everyone seems to be waiting to start PvPing.
Second, a disclaimer; this post is not written by someone with an encyclopedic knowledge of the details of PvP. I don't play it much, so I might make mistakes in a few things I state. I know the PvP community values verbal combat as much as pixellated, and I am eager for constructive counterposts. What this is, is an explanation of what I expect out of the PvP I *want* to play, from the mindset of someone who never really enjoyed what we had, pre or post The Change. There is an idea that seems to be popular, where every archetype should be able to fight every other archetype and stand a reasonable chance. The idea is that my controller should be able to go into a PvP zone or an arena match and fight on an even playing field with a brute, scrapper, mastermind or stalker. I used to think I liked this idea. But today I realised that this idea is what is wrong with PvP as designed. CoX was designed as a team based game, with limited solo options. Stupid stupid AI has allowed those solo options to grow, and now people expect them out of PvP as well. This is wrong. If the PvE enemies were player controlled, my controller would not stand a bloody chance without a team. This is what PvP should be like. I do not expect my controller to go to RV and stand toe to toe with a brute and take him down in a reasonable amount of time. I expect to hold that brute for a really long time until his friends come and kill me, and maybe get him down to half health before that happens. He can't hurt me, or move. I can't kill him. Pointless for both of us without a team. If I had a blaster teammate, he loses. If he has a dominator teammate, I lose. The world spins on, and on and on. *I do not expect to survive most PvP solo, with any character or build* *I want any character or build I play to be able to do their job on a PvP team, and not be muzzled to enable half *****, artificial feeling solo play* Besides intelligent tactics, the primary difference between what is possible in PvE and in PvP is the use of inspirations. If Malta had breakfrees, they would have already taken over the earth. Therefore, the way PvP should be balanced is not through making all the powers do different things for no reason, it is through changing inspirations and the way they work. I would like to see PvP specific inspiration functions, or inspirations be removed from PvP. If I can hold people and they can't just shrug it off over and over and over again, I don't need some wierd *** artificial damage and HP boost to be competitive - I just need a teammate to actually kill the people I hold before I get counterattacked. *I want the people I hold who have no mez protection, to stay the $@$# held for more than two seconds* *I do not expect a controller to stand a chance in PvP without the ability to lock down any more than I do in PvE, that's why she's a controller* In short, you can't redesign a team based game into a one-on-one game and still retain any of the original design elements. So don't try. CoX is a team game. Play it that way. Build it that way. This means that the controller vs blaster match in the arena is going to be a really boring 4 minute long fight where the blaster uses their first two attack powers over and over while the controller tries to slowly crush the blaster with rocks - very slowly. Yes, that is silly - so don't play controller vs blaster matches. Don't redesign the whole damned game and add a bunch of wierd stupid alternate power functions to make that match kind of fun after you read the PvP specific game manual. No one wants to read the manual. Just let us play the game! I used to avoid PvP because I wanted to solo it and win every battle, and I couldn't. Now I avoid PvP because I can solo it, but my character plays like a broken copy of everyone else's character, and every power is either just a damage power with different graphics, or pointless. Let the archetypes do what they do. Stalkers gank, controllers mez, etc. This is the way of things. Us PvEers need to stop trying to solo PvP for the badge and street cred, find a buddy and dive in. I really hope that we are given a PvP worth diving into in the next couple of issues. And not one we have to relearn the game to play. |
Where is capture the flag?
Where is escort?
Where is all the syles that other games have PROVED work and are fun?
Instead we get a new game that plays absolutely nothing like the game that is PvE.
I want the AE to be for PvP. It's what I wanted from day one. Let us do what other games have done and WE the players will find the most popular maps, power settings and style of play.
Where is capture the flag? Where is escort? Where is all the syles that other games have PROVED work and are fun? Instead we get a new game that plays absolutely nothing like the game that is PvE. |
PvP 1.0 was far from perfect but it did have some elements that were very strong. The pace was quite unique for example. And although the rock/paper/scissors AT balance could be frustrating there was nothing more satisfying than playing in a solid team taking on huge odds and being victorious through teamwork.
Yet seemingly the devs thought those elements were broken and didnt just nerf them they literally removed them in horrifying ways. In fact the lengths they went to nerf those elements almost felt mean spirited and spiteful in the degree they were destroyed. Lightning fast pace to the bizarre and frustrating suppression system we now have. Where did they get these outlandish ideas? When has suppression EVER been popular?
It is such a shame they made such an utter mess out of pvp as every other aspect of the game is so strong right now.
Well Castle broke pvp and he is the one who refused to admit it was a failure and refused to put it back to i12 or at least close to it *losing heal decay and travel supression would go a looooooong way -hint hint...*
now castle is gone -so either the people filling in the indentation on the break room sofa will change it back or at least remove the ridiculous stuff - or just follow his bible and leave it all broke.
First, an introduction. I am not a PvPer. I am a veteran PvE player, started in 2005. My personal view is that the success of any build is 90% playstyle and only 10% gadgets, and I pride myself in being able to take on content that I really shouldn't be able to take on with a mismatched, undersized or nonexistant team. My main is a Controller. I have dabbled in PvP both before and after "The Change", and have found it generally undesireable in both cases. But I WANT to PvP - I want the PvP in the zone descriptions and literature where fighting is fun and challenging, and danger lurks around every corner. In short, I am the *potential PvPer* that everyone seems to be waiting to start PvPing.
Second, a disclaimer; this post is not written by someone with an encyclopedic knowledge of the details of PvP. I don't play it much, so I might make mistakes in a few things I state. I know the PvP community values verbal combat as much as pixellated, and I am eager for constructive counterposts. What this is, is an explanation of what I expect out of the PvP I *want* to play, from the mindset of someone who never really enjoyed what we had, pre or post The Change.
There is an idea that seems to be popular, where every archetype should be able to fight every other archetype and stand a reasonable chance. The idea is that my controller should be able to go into a PvP zone or an arena match and fight on an even playing field with a brute, scrapper, mastermind or stalker. I used to think I liked this idea. But today I realised that this idea is what is wrong with PvP as designed. CoX was designed as a team based game, with limited solo options. Stupid stupid AI has allowed those solo options to grow, and now people expect them out of PvP as well. This is wrong.
If the PvE enemies were player controlled, my controller would not stand a bloody chance without a team. This is what PvP should be like. I do not expect my controller to go to RV and stand toe to toe with a brute and take him down in a reasonable amount of time. I expect to hold that brute for a really long time until his friends come and kill me, and maybe get him down to half health before that happens. He can't hurt me, or move. I can't kill him. Pointless for both of us without a team. If I had a blaster teammate, he loses. If he has a dominator teammate, I lose. The world spins on, and on and on.
*I do not expect to survive most PvP solo, with any character or build*
*I want any character or build I play to be able to do their job on a PvP team, and not be muzzled to enable half *****, artificial feeling solo play*
Besides intelligent tactics, the primary difference between what is possible in PvE and in PvP is the use of inspirations. If Malta had breakfrees, they would have already taken over the earth. Therefore, the way PvP should be balanced is not through making all the powers do different things for no reason, it is through changing inspirations and the way they work. I would like to see PvP specific inspiration functions, or inspirations be removed from PvP. If I can hold people and they can't just shrug it off over and over and over again, I don't need some wierd *** artificial damage and HP boost to be competitive - I just need a teammate to actually kill the people I hold before I get counterattacked.
*I want the people I hold who have no mez protection, to stay the $@$# held for more than two seconds*
*I do not expect a controller to stand a chance in PvP without the ability to lock down any more than I do in PvE, that's why she's a controller*
In short, you can't redesign a team based game into a one-on-one game and still retain any of the original design elements. So don't try. CoX is a team game. Play it that way. Build it that way.
This means that the controller vs blaster match in the arena is going to be a really boring 4 minute long fight where the blaster uses their first two attack powers over and over while the controller tries to slowly crush the blaster with rocks - very slowly. Yes, that is silly - so don't play controller vs blaster matches. Don't redesign the whole damned game and add a bunch of wierd stupid alternate power functions to make that match kind of fun after you read the PvP specific game manual. No one wants to read the manual. Just let us play the game!
I used to avoid PvP because I wanted to solo it and win every battle, and I couldn't. Now I avoid PvP because I can solo it, but my character plays like a broken copy of everyone else's character, and every power is either just a damage power with different graphics, or pointless. Let the archetypes do what they do. Stalkers gank, controllers mez, etc. This is the way of things.
Us PvEers need to stop trying to solo PvP for the badge and street cred, find a buddy and dive in.
I really hope that we are given a PvP worth diving into in the next couple of issues. And not one we have to relearn the game to play.