A suggestion for /Regen.

First off, I'll start by saying that I love /Regen. It is the secondary of my main, and I have another one sitting at 45 (which is the first time I've used a powerset more than once on any given AT)

That said, it has a couple glaring problems.

First, the set has no native defense power in it, and very little resistance. That is only really a problem in that Regen only has one reliable method of mitigating incoming damage, which is letting the damage happen and healing it back.

When you look at just about every other melee defense set, most of them have more than one source of mitigation.

Invulnerability has a huge amount of resistance to S/L damage, sme resistance to the others, very easily built on defense, and a monster heal/HP boost (that you can make permanent with enough recharge)

Dark Armor has resistance, defense, the best self-heal in the game, and control options.

Willpower has regen, resistance, and defense.

And so on. The only other set that is as much of a one trick pony as /Regen is /SR.

So, I propose that /Regen get a small amount of defense in something, and perhaps a little more resistance. I haven't thought out exactly where yet, but I was considering something like Phalanx Fighting, which has a small amount of unenhanceable defense. Something like that would make it slightly easier to get defense on a /Regen character through pool powers and IOs.

The second problem, which is closely related to the first, is that /Regen doesn't have any debuff resistance of any kind.

It seems odd that a set that is completely reliant on passive regeneration and click heals should have no resistance to the debuffs that will completely nullify their mitigation. SR, which is completely reliant on defense, has the ability to resist debuffs to that defense, but Regen can't resist the debuffs that get it killed quite frequently.

It has no -regen resistance, which you would think a set that revolves around healing yourself would have. Willpower got -regen resistance in a power that it shares with Regen, Fast Healing, but that -regen resistance didn't carry over to the set that the power originated in.

So, I propose that Fast Healing and Integration both get 20% resistance to -regen, which ideally would be enhanced by slotting it for healing.

The other thing Regen lacks is any kind of -recharge resistance. In a set that is so reliant on using click powers to stay alive, getting hit with large amounts of -recharge is a virtual death sentence. And unfortunately, there are enough enemies out there that apply sizable amounts of it (Council Marksmen, I'm looking at YOU). To make matters worse, if you've already run through your attack chain and powers are recharging when you get hit with that -recharge, it neuters your ability to actually kill the thing that is hitting you with the debuff.

I propose that Resilience get a 20% resistance to -recharge debuffs, but just -recharge. Movement slows aren't as disastrous to Regen as -recharge is. That would give you the ability to stack it with a Winter's Gift Slow Resistance IO for a total of 40%, which would definitely help.

I found it rather strange that Temperature Protection in Fiery Aura was given slow/recharge debuff resistance, but the set that -recharge is even MORE crippling to was overlooked.

To make things worse on Regen (and this is the part that relates to the first point), the difficulty of acquiring sizable amounts of defense means you have very little means of avoiding those debuffs. So, Regen gets to spend it's entire career getting hit with every debuff in the game, and having every last one of them have full effect on them.

I can't even remember the number of times I've faceplanted because I got hit with -recharge and -regen at the same time. And from what I understand, there are things in the new Incarnate TFs that apply both in large amounts. I'm actually kind of dreading running those TFs on my main, who is a Claws/Regen.

I also considered the possibility of extending Resilience's damage resistance to the other types, and of adding the same amount of Smashing/Lethal resistance to Reconstruction as the Toxic resistance it already has (since healing set bonuses already don't affect the power, it shouldn't change the nature of it)

I don't think any of these suggestions would overpower the set, and would perhaps put it on more of a level playing field with other powersets when it comes to dealing with heavy debuffing enemies.

Any thoughts on it would be appreciated.

Well here's my two cents.

My main used to be exactly what you are, claws/regen.

I lost my love for regen when Willpower came out because it was so glaringly better than regen is.

My main gripes with regeneration are very similiar to yours.

I fully agree with the -regen resistance and they need it badly.

I don't have as big a problem against -recharge but I wouldn't argue against that either.

I do not agree with adding in defense and resistance however. We do have a bit of toxic, smashing and lethal resistance but they are very minor amounts and I'm personally happy with that. We're supposed to take considerably more damage than other sets. Besides Moment of Glory is right now the single most overpowered thing I have on any character (I still miss the old moment of glory).

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My problem lies in the actual regeneration that the set provides. I find it subpar at best. Without instant healing factored in, /regeneration barely has the upper hand in regeneration when compared to Willpower (Specially if that willpower is fighting large groups). I think all the regeneration effects in the set should be doubled, or something near it. Or better yet, increase regens base health regen rate so those regeneration percentages actually mean something besides single digit number increases.
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Not fussed about Defence or Resistane. But everything else? Thumbs up and /Signed from me. Good suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I can get behind most of this, though i do agree with most of this (also have a claws/regen), I also agree adding Resistance and defense might not be the best way to go about this.
But a particularly bad note is /Regen for stalkers. Regen works better if you have more HP, meaning you regenerate HP in larger chunks, but stalkers have about 75% the HP of a scrapper if I recall right, and also got quick recovery inexplicably axed from their version of /regen, which is why I would like to propose that they get a bigger regen boost from fast healing, integrations, and instant healing.

Part of me also would like to propose Integration's name be changed to Homeostasis, but that's just me being the son of a nurse and feeling like it fits the theme of regeneration better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

As a casual player of regen (I jumped ship over to Willpower after it was relased), I can only speak in general to your ideas Claws.

It makes a lot of sense to add slow and regen debuff resistance. Especially the slow resistance.

As far as Defense or Resistance goes, I am less convinced that it is the way to go.
Personally, one of the contributing reasons that I now prefer Willpower over Regen is the MANY changes that have occurred to Regen over the years. It would actually be more enjoyable to me if they lowered the recharge on Instant Healing a little and/or Moment of Glory.

My "instinct" tells me that Moment of Glory was meant to be that Defense/Resistance power for regen. The problem as I see it, is that functionally, "Shadowmeld" is more effective at countering "alphas" or "hanging-by-a-thread" while you recover some health (because you can get the up-time much higher).

I think I'm with the group that I would be for debuff resist, but not so sure about the defense and additional damage resist.

Scrapper:

Regeneration (Fast Healing, Intergration, 3 Heal SO's, Health 1 Heal SO): 544% Regen.

Willpower (Fast Healing, Rise to the Challenge, 3 Heal SO's, Health 1 Heal SO):

1 Enemy: 543%
2 Enemies: 592%
3 Enemies: 641%

Add in this with the Defence, Resistance, Enemy -To Hit, and WP is kind of... well, much better.

Regeneration's Reconstruction:
10.4 Endurance, 60 second recharge, 24.99% Heal, 15% Toxic Resistance.

Firey Aura's Healing Flames:
10.4 Endurance Cost, 40 second recharge, 24.99% Heal, 15% Toxic Resistance.

Firey Aura has a low level advantage in recharge of its heal, plus resistance. Regen has to cope with just Fast Healing, Reconstruction and Dull Pain till 16.

Yes to the Recharge Debuff Resistance, yes to the Regen Debuff Resistance, I'd also propose changes to the amount of regen given by the various, non IH powers, the recharge time of IH, the recharge time of Reconstruction (bringing it in line with Healing Flames) and possibly changing Resiliance to a High Pain Tolerance a-like. And a small amount of Recovery Debuff Resistance to Quick Recovery.

And yes. Council Marksmen are HATE. HATE HATE HATE.

Honestly I miss my instant healing as a toggle and that's really about the point I started losing interest in my regen because I no longer felt like regen. I felt like self-empathy.

Put the regen back in regeneration.

To be perfectly honest about it, the debuff resistance was what I really wanted.

The defense and resistance were more of a "Yeah, it'd be kinda nice, but it's not that big of an issue". If the defense and resistance were scrapped out of my suggestion, and the debuff resistance implemented, I'd be just fine with that.

The defense only even came up because I looked at it like: Okay, Regen can't resist those debuffs, and it can't really avoid them either. If the debuff resistance happened, defense would be much less important.

I just never really thought it was especially fair that of all the scrapper/stalker/brute/tank defensive sets, /Regen should be the only one that got no resistance to any debuffs at all.

So, lose the defense, lose the S/L resistance on Reconstruction. Keep the debuff resistance, and maybe the addition of the other damage types to Resilience (without increasing the amount). That sound better?

This is something that has come up in the regen forums before and been IIRC a notable option to bring regen closer to par for other sets. To be honest I thought it had been implemented because it's such a "well duh" kinda thing.

I generally agree with the options presented. I'd be more inclined to lean the direction of adding resistances, over defences, to anything because that is already included in the powerset overall.

I've long held the belief that regen would not see any sort of buff because of the strength and severity of the debuff that came about long ago. I think we are past that era and can logically apply buffs without making regen the power house it once was and still keeping it par for the course with other scrapper secondaries. We've seen two shifts in management and a more thoughtful approach to balance. Back when the debuffs were originally applied i think there was more reactionary vibe to balance.

In all the time that regen has been debated I don't think i've yet see any power that be, like castle, chime in on regen debates at all. I think a lot of that has to do with many of the initial debates ending up in shouting matches and demands that regen be restored to it's former strength. Those types of responses are a thing of the past especially when it comes to the ideas presented in this thread, the thinkers amoung us have prevailed.

So after all that reading I'd like to say that I support this idea and hope to see it implemented soon.

with Stamina going inherent /regen is less appealing than ever before, losing even well, you can ignore/skimp on stamina as a justification.

I'm not on board with any defense (if you want D you can build for it with inventions) but I like the other suggestions.

Here's hoping someone's listening.
Regen is in danger of becoming a set that's been left behind by the evolution of the game.

Im on board for -regen resistance in fast healing (hell, willpower gets it) and -rech resistance (put it in resilence, so more people will take it).

Also make IH's +regen undebuffable (or something to that effect) so that 1 Malta titan can't floor your 160hp/second regen with a lucky laser blast