Can IH become a toggle?
When COV came out (Issue 6) the reason for IH to become a click power was that Stalkers didn't got Quick Recovery, so the devs changed the power. Now, with fitness been inherit, there is no excuse for IH to be changed again. Maybe it won't happen, but what the heck.
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Um... For starters, the change to Instant Healing was in Issue 5: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Regeneration
Second, there was quite a bit of controversy back when the change was made. This was what the Patch Notes said:
Changed Regeneration/Instant Healing from a Toggle Power to a Click power. Gave it a new animation so it activates faster. The power was simply too strong as a toggle that could be kept on all the time. Rather than further increase the end cost or decrease the healing ability of the power, we made it a click power to be used when really needed. As a click with a long recharge, its Endurance cost can remain low, and its Regeneration boost can stay high. |
I'm sorry, but what was said about the power by the developers, and the controversy over the change, in no way, shape, form, or time-line, matches what you just posted.
edit: found some posts dealing with the change through google with the search string: instant healing jack emmert site:boards.cityofheroes.com
When COV came out (Issue 6) the reason for IH to become a click power was that Stalkers didn't got Quick Recovery, so the devs changed the power. Now, with fitness been inherit, there is no excuse for IH to be changed again. Maybe it won't happen, but what the heck.
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And no, there's no way it would become a toggle at its current power. I'm not saying the level of power is the same, but this is fundamentally like asking for Strength of Will or Build up to be made into toggles. Sure, they could be, but they would not be nearly as strong as they are as clicks.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That is so not when that happened, or why.
And no, there's no way it would become a toggle at its current power. I'm not saying the level of power is the same, but this is fundamentally like asking for Strength of Will or Build up to be made into toggles. Sure, they could be, but they would not be nearly as strong as they are as clicks. |
The reasons? I remember them well.
The devs said they would be changing Regen since it was too powerful.
When we asked what "too powerful was", after much asking, they said that a Regen could solo a 15 mob of +8 baddies.
Imagine! Soloing a +8 mob of 15 baddies!!!
Everyone was like "NO WAY". Other people (fanbois) said "It must be true, why would they lie".
The rest of us was..."It can't be. NOBODY solos a +8 mob of 15 baddies. NOBODY. Not even an INV tanker with perma-Unstoppable. There's NO way you could survive or in fact even SCRATCH that +8 mob".
Then the Jack Emmert posted a video of a Dev ACTUALLY soloing a +8 mob with 15 baddies with a DM/Regen....
We were like...WTF? Then someone noticed that the Regen was ONE-SHOTING a +8 mob. There's NO way anything could do that, even in the good old days. Not even with BU + AIM + 6 slotted Headspliter could you do that on a +8 mob.
Then some dudes did the math and came to the conclusion that the Devs internal playtest server musn't have the PURPLE PATCH (the one that makes your powers less effective as the level gap increases).
Jack Emmert said " Hm.... I am going to check on that one after the weekend, on monday".
Come monday, he announces : "Hm, we realized our internal test server didn't in fact have the purple patch. OOOPS. Our mistake".
"Small concern=smal tweak. Don't worry regeners"
(remember that at this point, on every Issue, from 1-5, regen had been nerfed in every single one of them. Every single one. It was a recurring joke on the forums, one that even the Devs joked about).
Rejoice on the forums! Everyone was happy! We had done it, we had proven the Devs that they were wrong, it was THEIR mistake, not ours. They had been using a faulty server, one which lacked a patch that was active for like 5 issues at that point.
Regen wasn't going to be changed, since the reason for its change was proven to be a mistake.
Then, 2 weeks later or so, I5 comes and the Regen change comes as planned, without any difference. We as players, discovered that the Devs had been making assumptions based on faulty data.....but still they didn't alter ONE BIT to the nerfs. It was as if we were nothing.
That's the story.
I quit CoH soon after. I am still angry about it, about a guy that lies and makes mistakes but doesn't care. I couldn't pay money to a guy that tottaly drops the ball, but ignores it completly.
I only came back after Jack Emmert left CoH.
So, that's the story.
IH got changed due to faulty data.
Was it strong? Without any doubt!
Was it overpowered? Yeah, as so many powers in CoH are.
After ED, being reduced to only 3 heals would have made it more in line with the rest of the game? Unquestionably.
/rant off.
Thank you for the recap Bio_Flame.
So, that's the story.
IH got changed due to faulty data. Was it strong? Without any doubt! Was it overpowered? Yeah, as so many powers in CoH are. After ED, being reduced to only 3 heals would have made it more in line with the rest of the game? Unquestionably. |
Would IH be just a little overpowered with ED as "so many powers in CoH are" if it were in its original toggle form today? Not really: with the reductions in other powersets coincident with I5's global defense reductions, toggle IH even with ED would be a wild anomaly among damage mitigation powers today.
If you want toggle IH back, here's more or less what you have to do:
1. Cut its strength by about a third.
2. Eliminate the +health enhanceability of Dull Pain for Regen.
3. Eliminate reconstruction. And I don't mean replace it with a non-mitigation utility power. I mean eliminate it and replace it with nothing more useful than swift.
That would put Toggle IH Regen right about where the balance target is for scrapper mitigation sets. Other than that sort of deep cuts, or major across the board buffage of all damage mitigation sets, toggle IH at anything remotely close to its current strength is extremely unlikely.
(By the way, I'm sure there will be people who would prefer the option above to the current Regen set. However, even that suggestion only preserves the numerical power balance requirements as I understand them. It still would have additional hurdles, not the least of which is that I'm not in charge of powerset balance, IH would require a cottage rule exception, and there's a lot of people who prefer the new version of Regen. If it were up to me, I would allow both versions to coexist ala branching VEATs so long as players could not choose both versions in different builds. But it ain't up to me).
** And to this day no one from the dev team has ever explained the "phantom slots" that were in the posted SR build from those tests, which exceeded the number of slots available at the tested level by two.
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Geko nerfed Regen every patch.
Just like Burn.
It took a few years for Castle to make Burn not suck anymore and MoG to not be a total trash power; I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing IH revisited. It really was "can the alpha strike kill me? If no, then this pack of enemies cannot kill me" back then. It was lulzworthy in lolpvp when Statesman made them waste dev resources on creating the Arena where /regen scrappers couldn't die...except maybe to a Rad.
If he made it toggle it would only be something like RttC or Integration strength HP regen.
Well...except that IH was a toggle in the first place. It was a toggle from I0 to I5 (GDN/ED).
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The fact that it was a toggle before does not mean that the devs would give us its current level of HP recovery as a toggle now, even reduced from its glory days as it is now. My statement stands that compares to asking for things like Build Up as a toggle, as long as one is aware I don't mean for the comparison to convey true scale. The devs would not give us Build Up's click power stats as a toggle, and I don't think they would give us IH's click power stats as a toggle. Both would be reduced.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I left around the same time!
I will back up Bio Flame, after chatting with Jack Emmert a few times it was clear he was a goon that didn't know a thing about MMO games. This game has vastly improved in his absence.
I had a nice BS/regen scrapper at the time of this nerf and the whole insane internal build of CoH which had absolutely nothing to do with live. Everyone always wonders if the devs are playing the same game we are... back then they weren't!
All that said, I'm going to have to say regen is just fine the way it is now. Honestly, I was surprised when I logged back in my regen scrapper who I abandoned as a totally useless character long ago. While it's true that an alpha strike is regen's worst enemy, I've found that as long as you're ready for that burst of damage there's little regen can't handle. IH certainly does not need 100% uptime. Play your clicky heals well and choose when to use them wisely, that's the best part about having regen.
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Dark/Shield Build Thread
When COV came out (Issue 6) the reason for IH to become a click power was that Stalkers didn't got Quick Recovery, so the devs changed the power. Now, with fitness been inherit, there is no excuse for IH to be changed again. Maybe it won't happen, but what the heck.