I do. I like to have all my bases covered. Plus there are some really nasty AoE attacks out there.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
That's pretty much it. While there aren't a lot of AoE attacks that mobs throw at you, some can be very devastating. Ghost Widdow's Soul Storm comes to mind.
Also, getting your AoE defense to 45%+ is just another way to maintain self sufficiency. I would rather have it and not need it, than not have it and need it.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
Yes because there are AoE attacks. It's lower priority for me than melee and ranged, but Shield Defense comes with enough defense that it seems silly to not finish the job.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Why do you ask? Changing philosophies?
| i will never soft cap aoe def ever.i find it to be a huge waste.with that being said i'm done. |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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This is how I feel about it. I typically being IOing at level 27. Any powers I have at that point get level 30 IOs, everything afterwards gets IOs 2 levels below when it was placed (so if I exemplar above level 27, all powers available give me their set bonus).|
Originally Posted by Werner
Yes because there are AoE attacks. It's lower priority for me than melee and ranged, but Shield Defense comes with enough defense that it seems silly to not finish the job.
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AoE defense is the last thing I find slots for while leveling. My current Scrapper, with Shields, doesn't get softcapped AoE defense till I respec i19. I topped it out at 40%, which has been more than enough. I use Shadow Meld whenever I'm hit with a defense debuff though, so it's above softcap often enough, I suppose.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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No no never that...i was just wondering why someone does it. I'm running a FM/SD on I19 beta with 41% aoe def and it's been working fine on all the new content.|
Originally Posted by Elegost
Why do you ask? Changing philosophies?
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@kreegor
For all the above reasons, and because if I didn't my OCD brain would melt.
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Originally Posted by XkreegorX
No no never that...i was just wondering why someone does it. I'm running a FM/SD on I19 beta with 41% aoe def and it's been working fine on all the new content.
@kreegor |
Granted 41% is not cap, but your pretty close to cap. 45% does make the numerical difference in hits, but your forgetting if your capped in Type defense then it will be used instead. So it might make your question a moot point.
So we would need to see more numbers before we can give you a more accurate answer.
Further Regeneration plays a part as well. If AOE hits are getting in seldom then your regen might be good enough to compensate for hits that get in.
I have a DS Pain MM that is not defense capped but I can regen faster then what some purple mob hits me for.
Put out the rest of your numbers or post the build and so we can get a bit more insight.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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I can give a little more detail on my response, then, rather than leave it at "seems silly not to".|
Originally Posted by XkreegorX
i was just wondering why someone does it. I'm running a FM/SD on I19 beta with 41% aoe def and it's been working fine on all the new content.
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Let's work through an example. As our first case, we'll take a Shield Defense has 45% melee, 45% ranged and 45% AoE. For simplicity, let me ignore damage types and resistance. For simplicity we'll say you can regenerate or heal 30 DPS. And we'll use a survivability line approach to calculating survivability (lots of drawbacks to it, but fairly simple to apply). Well, 5% of attacks get through, so the damage output of the crowd you're facing can average 30 / 5% = 600 DPS.
For our next case, we'll take a Shield Defense with 45% melee, 45% ranged and 40% AoE. I'm going to say that 10% of incoming damage is AoE. Plug in a different number if you prefer. Well, DPS * 90% * 5% + DPS * 10% * 10% = 30, (4.5% + 1%)* DPS = 30, DPS = 545 DPS.
So the extra 5% AoE defense means the difference between surviving 600 DPS of enemy damage output vs. surviving 545 DPS of enemy damage output. Yes, it's going to be hard to notice that seat of the pants. But it IS a 10% improvement in survivability by adding those last few percentage points of defense. You might notice it more if it was 10% resistance, but it's a different and much less visible mechanic. I'm not going to sacrifice 10% resistance without good cause. I'm not going to sacrifice 5% AoE defense below the soft cap without good cause.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Great example of a foe that has fairly painful AoEs? The 5th Column. Get some large spawns going on and let the LTs and Bosses cut loose on you with their Shotguns. I can be very not pretty.
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Originally Posted by Werner
Yes because there are AoE attacks. It's lower priority for me than melee and ranged, but Shield Defense comes with enough defense that it seems silly to not finish the job.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I'd say it's probably the least important of the three but if you are SD it's of almost no expense to you to get there.
I'd also add that it's the one that requires perhaps the least 'buffer' zone, as in you don't need to exceed the cap in any meaningful way, because -def are by and large melee and ranged attacks, so it's unlikely that AOE defence will be the cause of any kind of cascading defence failures.
I soft cap it because I can.
On a more serious note, it does provide quite a large increase in survivability as Werner noted. Against certain enemy groups it may be much more significant than 10%, and I don't really like being at a disadvantage against AoE heavy groups.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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And to be fair, against others much less than 10%, assuming I estimated correctly for the average amount of incoming AoE damage for an average Scrapper. Also, you can sometimes choose your enemies to avoid your weaknesses.|
Originally Posted by DSorrow
Against certain enemy groups it may be much more significant than 10%
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Originally Posted by DSorrow
I don't really like being at a disadvantage against AoE heavy groups.
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But as weaknesses go, being at "only" 41% against AoE is hardly a big one. I wouldn't do it, but it's not completely unreasonable, at least if you're getting something of equal value out of taking that minor weakness. Maybe think of it like skipping Resilience on a Regen. Lots of people do, and it's not that big a deal. I wouldn't, but you CAN, and you won't feel gimped in actual play even if the numbers say you're slightly worse off.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
No, my Kinetic Melee/Shield Defense Scrappers AoE defense is only at 44.8% 
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
Title says it all....more or less for Shield def.
@kreegor