Nitpick:
Given the Nova and Dwarf models are specific races the Kheldians have met and merged with in the past, there wouldn't really be "multiple models." Color, sure. Models, not so much.
It would be rather fabulous if the 'shape shifting AT' had more shapes to choose from than the simplistic pair we already have, while I'm wishing for the unfeasible.
I still think there must be a way of tying forms to costume slots.
We change costume... We morph into different power forms...
It would make the Kheldian AT so much more versatile for other concepts beyond the one given to us by the game.
Seconding that.
Kheldians are... odd. As a matter of personal taste, I like creative freedom. That's probably the very reason that CoX has earned my loyalty in a way that no other MMO ever has; I've been particularly unimpressed by MMOs with inflexible classes and avatars. Kheldians, on a creative level, feel like an inferior class here in CoX -- like something imported from one of those more primitive games. Sure, the power-sets are fairly versatile, but there's no way of masking the Kheldian identity and back-story without unduly limiting the character's functionality.
With an Arachnos Soldier or Widow, by contrast, I can create a character that doesn't constantly remind me of it's class origin. As long as I don't switch into that first costume slot and avoid one or two unspectacular power choices I can build a character that has no evident relation to Arachnos, bring it over to blue side and forget that brief time spent in service to Lord Recluse.
Just allowing for a superficial replacement of the Keldians' alternate form with a standard costume built at the tailor would change/fix this.
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Right. Because we all know All members of the same species look Completely Identical except for color. All White (Black, Purple, Rainbow) people look the same.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Nitpick:
Given the Nova and Dwarf models are specific races the Kheldians have met and merged with in the past, there wouldn't really be "multiple models." Color, sure. Models, not so much. |
There can definitely be multiple models, the same way we have multiple models for our toons faces and body types.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
When you're talking about alien creatures that drift through space and can live forever, you're not really able to use real-world cites about how things should work.
I would like to see power colours being changable on Khelds as well as costume colours... I am atm looking at making a Human only WS as I can't stand the Alien look about the other forms.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Whinicle,
I can't disagree with wanting more customization for my kheldians, but I am grown enough to realize that I'm not going to get it any faster by making posts in the manner of a self entitled childish rant.
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Eh, if you mean "model" in the same sense as our Male, Female and Huge, then yeah. I don't think there needs to be multiple models for the Kheldian forms. (While female Novas and Dwarfs would be amusing, I don't think they're NECESSARY |
Originally Posted by Wavicle
There can definitely be multiple models, the same way we have multiple models for our toons faces and body types.
|
) We have the option to pick variations of various body parts, though. We can choose mechanical arms, wings, horns of various types coming out of our heads, decorations and attachments to our shoulders, wrists and lower legs. And that doesn't even count clothing.
Even if we assume these extra-planetary beings that the Kheldians inhabited in the past had no concept of clothing, I would expect them to have individual features that differentiated them. Just normal random genetic variation would introduce some differences, even if they didn't use visual cues to determine identity, and used smell or hearing or some alien sense instead.
Since it's not likely that we would ever have that fine a control over either shapeshifting forms or the appearance of our pets or henchmen, I would say, yeah, you want different models, only with very slight variations. A Dwarf with larger or arms or different horns, for instance, or a Nova with different numbers and lengths of tentacles.
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Well, the forms are not of the Kheldians themselves, but the past, presumably material races they inhabited. Granted, in that they are "shadows" of those material forms. Still, I would expect the individual to try to form a shape that is as close to the body he became previously comfortable with as possible, instead of some generic form. |
Originally Posted by Talen Lee
When you're talking about alien creatures that drift through space and can live forever, you're not really able to use real-world cites about how things should work.
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If we were playing actual Kheldians, though, we'd be little balls of floating fluffy light.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Eh, if you mean "model" in the same sense as our Male, Female and Huge, then yeah. I don't think there needs to be multiple models for the Kheldian forms. (While female Novas and Dwarfs would be amusing, I don't think they're NECESSARY
) We have the option to pick variations of various body parts, though. We can choose mechanical arms, wings, horns of various types coming out of our heads, decorations and attachments to our shoulders, wrists and lower legs. And that doesn't even count clothing. Even if we assume these extra-planetary beings that the Kheldians inhabited in the past had no concept of clothing, I would expect them to have individual features that differentiated them. Just normal random genetic variation would introduce some differences, even if they didn't use visual cues to determine identity, and used smell or hearing or some alien sense instead. Since it's not likely that we would ever have that fine a control over either shapeshifting forms or the appearance of our pets or henchmen, I would say, yeah, you want different models, only with very slight variations. A Dwarf with larger or arms or different horns, for instance, or a Nova with different numbers and lengths of tentacles. |
No, this is not what I meant.
I mean I want multiple versions of the Nova and Dwarf looks. Just different skins for Nova and Dwarf. With slightly different shape to their markings and such.
Not actually completely different looks.
Think of it as Weapon Customization for the forms.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Whinicle,
I can't disagree with wanting more customization for my kheldians, but I am grown enough to realize that I'm not going to get it any faster by making posts in the manner of a self entitled childish rant. |
I really don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Where was I whiny?
Where did I demonstrate entitlement?
All I did was make a thread with a suggestion in it. Maybe it should be in the suggestions forum instead of the kheldian forum.
Nevertheless, I don't see what I did to demand this kind of response.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Technically speaking what you are saying is that you want "textures" not "models". |
Originally Posted by Wavicle
No, this is not what I meant.
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I knew what you meant, but just being clear.
And I do think in some cases minor variations on the models may be needed to add some of the things we would like. Shoulder pads, for instance, or capes are additional "accessories" which are added to the base model. It's very likely that such could not be allowed for costume overrides, like Kheldian forms or Granite Armor, and so if you wanted to add such things, like different horns, the model itself might have to vary and not just the skin.
That's a way different thing from the model being totally different, though, which I think is what Memphis_Bill was arguing against. Say, adding a Jellyfish form in addition to Squid and Lobster. (That would really imply a form with whole new powers, which would be asking for far too much)
Although I did suggest in the past adding some sort of accessory using the weapon technology, just basically adding a weapon that the Nova/Dwarf would "draw" when going into the form. So you could, say, add a horn, or a glowing core in the center of the form, or a variant of an arm or tentacle. This might be similar to BaB's suggestion that he change the Granite Armor to be "rock bits" that were attached to your character's body, which would then be rendered invisible so it would look like he turned into rock. The same tech presumably could be applied to make a Kheldian have customizable forms. The forms would just become "attachments" to each body part and limb instead of a costume change.
Then again, I don't know if BaB ever succeeded at this, or it was abandoned because a lot of players seemed opposed to such a drastic, non-reversable change.
(Personally, I have not gotten my Stone Tank to 32 yet, so I can't check this, but does anyone know whether if you have Rooted running in Granite form, the "boots" still appear around your feet? Because if they do, this would be exactly what I am suggesting)
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Technically speaking what you are saying is that you want "textures" not "models".
I knew what you meant, but just being clear. And I do think in some cases minor variations on the models may be needed to add some of the things we would like. Shoulder pads, for instance, or capes are additional "accessories" which are added to the base model. It's very likely that such could not be allowed for costume overrides, like Kheldian forms or Granite Armor, and so if you wanted to add such things, like different horns, the model itself might have to vary and not just the skin. That's a way different thing from the model being totally different, though, which I think is what Memphis_Bill was arguing against. Say, adding a Jellyfish form in addition to Squid and Lobster. (That would really imply a form with whole new powers, which would be asking for far too much) Although I did suggest in the past adding some sort of accessory using the weapon technology, just basically adding a weapon that the Nova/Dwarf would "draw" when going into the form. So you could, say, add a horn, or a glowing core in the center of the form, or a variant of an arm or tentacle. This might be similar to BaB's suggestion that he change the Granite Armor to be "rock bits" that were attached to your character's body, which would then be rendered invisible so it would look like he turned into rock. The same tech presumably could be applied to make a Kheldian have customizable forms. The forms would just become "attachments" to each body part and limb instead of a costume change. Then again, I don't know if BaB ever succeeded at this, or it was abandoned because a lot of players seemed opposed to such a drastic, non-reversable change. (Personally, I have not gotten my Stone Tank to 32 yet, so I can't check this, but does anyone know whether if you have Rooted running in Granite form, the "boots" still appear around your feet? Because if they do, this would be exactly what I am suggesting) |
Sure, I guess I misused the word models. That's my bad.
And to answer your question, yes, Rooted and Granite lay over one another.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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That's good, that means it may be somewhat easier that trying to kludge together my weapon idea. |
Originally Posted by Wavicle
And to answer your question, yes, Rooted and Granite lay over one another.
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Honestly, I think if we could customize PART of the form, even if we couldn't customize ALL of it, it would be a big step forward. So I can't change the color of my Nova from bright blue? But can I put a whirling eddy in the middle of him that is gold? I'd go for that...
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I just want different "tentacle styles" the same way we have different hair styles.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
That's good, that means it may be somewhat easier that trying to kludge together my weapon idea.
Honestly, I think if we could customize PART of the form, even if we couldn't customize ALL of it, it would be a big step forward. So I can't change the color of my Nova from bright blue? But can I put a whirling eddy in the middle of him that is gold? I'd go for that... |
And an appropriate palette of color options.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
I'd like for Kheldians to burst out of the chest of a random, Atlas Park civilian NPC whenever a player rolls one.
Who'd care which colour they were, then?
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And then do a little dance with a hat and cane?
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Originally Posted by Cauda
I'd like for Kheldians to burst out of the chest of a random, Atlas Park civilian NPC whenever a player rolls one.
Who'd care which colour they were, then? |
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Hello my baby, hello my darling...|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
And then do a little dance with a hat and cane?
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Oh, sorry.
Maybe I'm just too new to Khelds, but the forms don't bother me much. Some color customization might be cool, but the forms are such an integral part of the class, excessive modification seems...dunno, out of character, for lack of a better phrase.
Personally, I think a lot of customization could be accomplished with relatively few new options. Let's say, for example, that we came up with two alternate textures (a smoother texture and one that is rougher) for each of the forms, and also allowed two alternate sizes as well (a small, medium, and large... with large as the current size and about six feet as the small size for dwarf).
That would create nine different combinations for each form, and 81 possible combinations between the two forms.
Throw in even 30 color options (say indigo, blue, and a blueish-purple in varying degrees of saturation for PB's as example) and you're at over 2400 possible combinations for the forms.
Even if you limited the Kheld to just one color choice for all of its powers overall (resonable to me since it seems all their powers are just different manifestations of the same energy), there would still be 1200 different combinations of appeareances for the forms and 30 different shades of Kheld powers overall (some would obviously not be obviously different, but for the individual Kheld just knowing you ARE different would be a big QoL improvement).
Now it could very well be that even the above level of complexity of allowing this customization is prohibitive, but even a fraction of the above (dealing with the forms via a weapon customization-like process to allow for the 9 x 9 combinations I described initially) would be something I think most Kheld lovers would get behind.
Want:
The Sash.
I am not rolling another Kheld until either PBs are significantly buffed or that is a costume option.
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
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This. Don't make me sing the sash song again.
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Originally Posted by ArchGemini
Want:
The Sash. I am not rolling another Kheld until either PBs are significantly buffed or that is a costume option. |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Do it!
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
This. Don't make me sing the sash song again.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Check my nictus beast.
If the Dwarf is a tank, and the Nova a blaster; the Beast is a brute.
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Color Tintable powers AND
Multiple Dwarf and Nova models from which to choose.
Not a new idea?
Wow. I'm so surprised.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.