City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

A bunch of numbers questions regarding critters

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-11-20 05:10 in Player Questions

 

Posted

Hey

So..I've been looking at some numbers for the random critters just out of curiosity really, and there are a few holes in Paragon Wiki that I would love to fill. So, it's like this... I have a few points that I would love to know the info about. If you can directly answer the question, or point me to a link or webpage that containts the information I'm looking for I'll be much obliged.

1) Wiki seems to be missing the recovery table of Mobs aside from Minions.
2) It also seems to be missing the HP table for Giant monsters.
3) I'd love to know the Debuff resist numbers on all mobs and not just AVs (which are listed in Paragon Wiki)
4) Do debuff resists reduce only the potency of affected stat, or do they also shorten the duration of the bebuff as well?

5) Speaking of debuffs. I'm quite confused about some of them. I know how all debuffs work (I think, at least, lol) except Regen and Recovery debuffs. I learned that the Regen and Recovery are "tick" based (set amount of % regained at intervals of time) and more Regen/Recovery rates mean that the intervals will occur more often and not higher % of HP/End at each tick. Now...question is, how do debuffs factor in this? Matter of fact, how do buffs work as well? Though I'm assuming if I can learn one the other will work the same way, but yeah. I can't figure it out really. How do Regen/Recovery buffs and debuffs work?

Suppose I'm on a Cold/Elec defender. I'm fighting some random mob of Minions (safe bet they have no resist to either debuffs. They recover 6.667% End every 4 seconds, and 5% HP every 42 seconds). I throw in Benumb at one of them (base -500% Regen debuff), and then hit it with Short Circuit (which has a base 100% Recovery debuff -- Assume it's not slotted for End mod for the sake of simplicity). How would that mess up the poor critter's Regen and Recovery?


Thanks!

P.S: I may have more questions in the very near future, but this is all I can think of ATM, heh.

@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA View Post
1) Wiki seems to be missing the recovery table of Mobs aside from Minions.
2) It also seems to be missing the HP table for Giant monsters.
3) I'd love to know the Debuff resist numbers on all mobs and not just AVs (which are listed in Paragon Wiki)
4) Do debuff resists reduce only the potency of affected stat, or do they also shorten the duration of the bebuff as well?

5) Speaking of debuffs. I'm quite confused about some of them. I know how all debuffs work (I think, at least, lol) except Regen and Recovery debuffs. I learned that the Regen and Recovery are "tick" based (set amount of % regained at intervals of time) and more Regen/Recovery rates mean that the intervals will occur more often and not higher % of HP/End at each tick. Now...question is, how do debuffs factor in this? Matter of fact, how do buffs work as well? Though I'm assuming if I can learn one the other will work the same way, but yeah. I can't figure it out really. How do Regen/Recovery buffs and debuffs work?
1.- I *think* mob recovery is the same across minions, lieuts and bosses, but the end/sec gain varies since higher ranks have higher max endurance (lieuts 140, bosses 200, AVs 800)

2.-
Paladin has 13k
Kraken has 18k
Babbage has 25k
Deathsurge has 27k
Lusca has 35k hitpoints per each tentacle + head
Adamastor has 42k
Ghost of Scrapyard has 43k
Eochai has 45k
Jack in Irons has 47k
Jurassik has 57k

4.- Debuff resistance only decreases the potency of the debuff, not its duration. Mez resistance, however, decreases mez duration

5.- From what I understand, ticks are fixed. There is no way to increase/decrease tick frequency, and the buffs/debuffs to regen/recovery simply increase/decrease the hp/end gained with each tick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
5.- From what I understand, ticks are fixed. There is no way to increase/decrease tick frequency, and the buffs/debuffs to regen/recovery simply increase/decrease the hp/end gained with each tick
You've got it backwards. Every tick of regen restores 5% hit points, and nothing can increase or decrease that. Recovery works the same, though I think the number's different. Regen/Recovery buffs and debuffs change the frequency of the ticks.

@Roderick

 

Posted

Thanks Silverado

Still waiting on someone for the Regen/Recovery debuff info :P

@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA View Post
5) Speaking of debuffs. I'm quite confused about some of them. I know how all debuffs work (I think, at least, lol) except Regen and Recovery debuffs. I learned that the Regen and Recovery are "tick" based (set amount of % regained at intervals of time) and more Regen/Recovery rates mean that the intervals will occur more often and not higher % of HP/End at each tick. Now...question is, how do debuffs factor in this? Matter of fact, how do buffs work as well? Though I'm assuming if I can learn one the other will work the same way, but yeah. I can't figure it out really. How do Regen/Recovery buffs and debuffs work?

Suppose I'm on a Cold/Elec defender. I'm fighting some random mob of Minions (safe bet they have no resist to either debuffs. They recover 6.667% End every 4 seconds, and 5% HP every 42 seconds). I throw in Benumb at one of them (base -500% Regen debuff), and then hit it with Short Circuit (which has a base 100% Recovery debuff -- Assume it's not slotted for End mod for the sake of simplicity). How would that mess up the poor critter's Regen and Recovery?
www.paragonwiki.com is your friend

Here is the "Limits" page.

Regeneration for most/all critters is based off the metric that "0" to 100% takes four minutes. From the above link, you see that minimum regeneration is 0. So if they get hit by the -500% regen buff, their regen stops. The extra is good for things such as resistance (especially against higher level foes and AVs) and will work against any buffs they might have/later gain.

If something instead gave a 50% debuff, it would halve the critters regen, so it would take instead 8 minutes for a "0" to 100%.

Same with recovery.

Note, not all attributes can be debuffed to 0, and others can go below zero.

Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
Eochai has 45k
Jack in Irons has 47k
For these two, there is going to be some variation in the hit points. Back when you could actually see the level of the GM by doing a /info on them, I noticed that they had a variable level, from level 30-32 if I recall correctly.

Two screen shots of two Jacks currently up on Protector (the Eochai currently up has the same hp as your image).

45K Jack


43k Jack

Hmmm... I wonder if I can pull that 2nd Jack over to where the other Jack is fighting Eochai and get both Jacks to beat on Eochai.

edit: Answer, yes, yes I can. Both Jacks are beating on Eochai. And it might be possible for them to beat Eochai down. They're doing some damage and Eochai is regenerating nearly all of it, but there's a sliver of damage making it through. But the moment any one of these GMs takes off running, it gets regenerated.

Dang entertaining to watch, though.

Global @StarGeek
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
www.paragonwiki.com is your friend

Here is the "Limits" page.

Regeneration for most/all critters is based off the metric that "0" to 100% takes four minutes. From the above link, you see that minimum regeneration is 0. So if they get hit by the -500% regen buff, their regen stops. The extra is good for things such as resistance (especially against higher level foes and AVs) and will work against any buffs they might have/later gain.

If something instead gave a 50% debuff, it would halve the critters regen, so it would take instead 8 minutes for a "0" to 100%.

Same with recovery.

Note, not all attributes can be debuffed to 0, and others can go below zero.

While I appreciate the link and the info, that's not what i'm looking for. I'm not looking for minimum/maximum ranges on Regen and Recovery, I'm looking for actual base value for them in normal circumstanes before being hit with any buffs/debuffs or anything else. Also, I know paragonwiki, I used to look at it sometimes. But I heard quite a few bad things about the info in it, and that the site itself is infested to begin with...so I just stopped going there lol.

However, your explanation of the debuff.
I'm not sure I get it right. You're basically saying that a 50% would halve the regen rate of a critter....
So, for example a use of Lingering Radiation, which is a 500% Regen debuff against say..a level 54 AV, who has a 87% Resist to regen debuff.
That means out of the 500% original debuff the AV will only be get hit by 65% Regen debuff. Does that mean that their HP will now take 2.857 times? Which is basically saying instead of regenerating from 1 HP to full HP in 5 minutes, it would take them about (approximately) 14 minutes and 20 seconds?

Is that it? Or did I get it all wrong?
Also, I'm assuming recovery debuffs work the same way?



And StarGeek, thanks for the info about Jack. Quite an interesting bit of experiment you've got going there lol, I outta try that out one time lol.

@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA View Post
Also, I know paragonwiki, I used to look at it sometimes. But I heard quite a few bad things about the info in it, and that the site itself is infested to begin with...so I just stopped going there lol.
Please take note that there's nothing wrong with the ParagonWiki.com (or it's alternate link, Wiki.CoHTitan.com). It's the CityOfHeroes.Wikia.com site that has outdated info, RMT ads and infestations.

Again, take note of the bolded part. The Wikia site is bad, not the real ParagonWiki.

Global @StarGeek
ParagonWiki.com-The original is still the best!
My Hero Merit rolls
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGeek View Post
Please take note that there's nothing wrong with the ParagonWiki.com (or it's alternate link, Wiki.CoHTitan.com). It's the CityOfHeroes.Wikia.com site that has outdated info, RMT ads and infestations.

Again, take note of the bolded part. The Wikia site is bad, not the real ParagonWiki.

Right..right. And I'm an idiot. Yeah that's the site I use all the time for any CoH related info I ever need (as was stated in my opening post)...I was thinking about Wikia when I said the infested/bad info thing... I've no idea why I mixed them up so bad, lmao.
But yeah thanks for catching my mistake.

@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA View Post
While I appreciate the link and the info, that's not what i'm looking for. I'm not looking for minimum/maximum ranges on Regen and Recovery, I'm looking for actual base value for them in normal circumstanes before being hit with any buffs/debuffs or anything else. Also, I know paragonwiki, I used to look at it sometimes. But I heard quite a few bad things about the info in it, and that the site itself is infested to begin with...so I just stopped going there lol.

However, your explanation of the debuff.
I'm not sure I get it right. You're basically saying that a 50% would halve the regen rate of a critter....
So, for example a use of Lingering Radiation, which is a 500% Regen debuff against say..a level 54 AV, who has a 87% Resist to regen debuff.
That means out of the 500% original debuff the AV will only be get hit by 65% Regen debuff. Does that mean that their HP will now take 2.857 times? Which is basically saying instead of regenerating from 1 HP to full HP in 5 minutes, it would take them about (approximately) 14 minutes and 20 seconds?

Is that it? Or did I get it all wrong?
Also, I'm assuming recovery debuffs work the same way?
4 mins is the base regen, but yeah.

And as far as the values - we know what base regen/recovery means - x% in y minutes - and we know the end values for given ranks - for HP try looking up the rank pages and the basic NPC page. They've never listed the regen/sec for the ranks because it was never really necessary (except for AVs, and I think that's listed on their page) and even less for Recovery (most debuffs do percents so actual end doesn't matter.).

Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA View Post
While I appreciate the link and the info, that's not what i'm looking for. I'm not looking for minimum/maximum ranges on Regen and Recovery, I'm looking for actual base value for them in normal circumstanes before being hit with any buffs/debuffs or anything else. Also, I know paragonwiki, I used to look at it sometimes. But I heard quite a few bad things about the info in it, and that the site itself is infested to begin with...so I just stopped going there lol.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Health_Regeneration
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Endurance

I like to think of Regen/Recovery as recharge bonuses for your hit point/endurance recovery rate (which is effectively how they work). With no regen and no recovery you get 5% of your maximum hit points every 12 seconds and 6.67% of your maximum endurance every 4 seconds.

Adding regen or recovery increases the frequency of these ticks according to the standard recharge formula.

For example, unenhanced Stamina provides a 25% recovery bonus so the frequency of recovery ticks changes from 4 seconds to 4s / (1 + 0.25) = 3.2s. Yuo still get 6.67% of your maximum endurance per tick so assuming a max endurance of 100 your effective EPS goes from 6.67end/4s = 1.67EPS to 6.67end/3.2s = 2.08EPS.

 

Posted

Thanks Rajani


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Health_Regeneration
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Endurance

I like to think of Regen/Recovery as recharge bonuses for your hit point/endurance recovery rate (which is effectively how they work). With no regen and no recovery you get 5% of your maximum hit points every 12 seconds and 6.67% of your maximum endurance every 4 seconds.

Adding regen or recovery increases the frequency of these ticks according to the standard recharge formula.

For example, unenhanced Stamina provides a 25% recovery bonus so the frequency of recovery ticks changes from 4 seconds to 4s / (1 + 0.25) = 3.2s. Yuo still get 6.67% of your maximum endurance per tick so assuming a max endurance of 100 your effective EPS goes from 6.67end/4s = 1.67EPS to 6.67end/3.2s = 2.08EPS.

Awesome! Thanks a lot Adeon!

@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor

 

Posted

Digging up this old thread to ask a similar question. Anyone knows the Giant Monsters resistance value for Debuffs? I'm kinda assuming it's 87%, but I want to make sure.

Thanks!

@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor

 

Posted

At the very least the Purple Patch would apply, at worst, also the AV resistance table.

Can't find any specific listing of what their debuff resistance is.

Some mention using Monster or AV resistance, but I'm not sure if that's just for Damage and/or Mez

Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
Can't find any specific listing of what their debuff resistance is.

Some mention using Monster or AV resistance, but I'm not sure if that's just for Damage and/or Mez
Yeah, that's the same problem I'm running into

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
At the very least the Purple Patch would apply, at worst, also the AV resistance table.
Yeah...that's what I'm assuming as well, I just wanted to make sure.

@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
I misread debuff resistance as damage resistance show I hunted up a link to a spreadsheet with most of the mobs damage resistance listed. Since I took the time to find it I'm gonna post it anyway.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=COST-PkK
Original source for that.
Culex's Enemy Resistances - Damage and Mez thread

Global @StarGeek
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My Hero Merit rolls
Accuracy needed for 95% ToHit spreadsheet
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
I misread debuff resistance as damage resistance show I hunted up a link to a spreadsheet with most of the mobs damage resistance listed. Since I took the time to find it I'm gonna post it anyway.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=COST-PkK
That's still a pretty neat spreadsheet to have. Thanks for posting that.

@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor