Take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide, where I discussed the various APP powersets and why I recommend Fire or Ice and prefer Fire. A key factor is understanding the Illusory Damage from Spectral Wounds -- you want to kill foes fast or you lose that damage when it heals back.
To me, the key is fast-recharging single target blast. Fire Blast and Ice Blast have a 1 second activation and an 8 second recharge. That means that with the proper slotting and your high amount of Recharge, you have a great attack chain of Blind-Spectral Wounds-Blast-Spectral Wounds. Psi and Primal both have good single target blasts, but the activation time is a little bit slower. Plus there are other reasons to take Fire and Ice.
Psi is the same damage type as most of Illusion. There are some foes who strongly resist Psi, and those foes are hard to take down without some other damage type. Granted, Psi offers Indomidible Will, which is the "signature" power of the set and the only mez protection for Controllers. However, I find that with my Ill/Rad, the PA are drawing most of the attention and I don't get mezzed very often.
Primal is Energy/Smashing, which is just like Phanty, and has the same longer activation as Psi. However, Primal's only AoE attack is Torrent, a cone. Cones require that you get in "just the right position" to maximize and hit fewer foes. Plus, Illusion only has a few powers which benefit from Power Boost, the "signature" power in the set.
Fire Blast adds a little more damage than Ice Blast from its DoT. Fire has a fast, mostly up-front foe-targetted AoE damage attack in Fireball that becomes available at 41. Fire has a resistance based armor, a PB AoE power to recover endurance and Rise of the Phoenix, the only self-rez available to Controllers. The "signature" aspect of Fire is the additional damage. To me, Fire Blast and Fire Ball are the reasons to take the Fire APP.
Ice Blast has the same fast activation as Fire Blast. Ice has two AoEs, with one a cone and the other a location-targetted AoE DoT, where the foes can run out of the area. That longer DoT may allow the Illusory damage to heal back, too. Still, Ice has TWO AoE attacks and Ice Armor is defense based, so if you need a place for a LotG, you can use Ice Armor for that. Ice also has Hibernate, a handy "panic button" power.
I find both Fire and Ice to be the best choices, with Fire winning out slightly, depending upon your needs. The Villain PPPs don't have the fast-recharging single target Blast -- Poisonous Ray from the Mace PPP has a 24 second recharge, so it won't work for the Blind-SW-Blast-SW chain.
If you haven't looked at it, my guide has a few sample Perma-PA builds (one with Fire, the other with Ice). Click the link in my sig.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I took ice mastery on my ill/rad, for a few reasons:
First, I play my ill/rad like a tank. Confuse a few to thin, PA drop, spect Terror, throw debuffs, drop freezing rain and watch the mob melt. If I get outside aggro or I start to take too much aggro, I pop into hibernate and wait for my PAs to regain aggro or at least heal up and then mez (confuse/blind/flash) whatever is attacking me.
Second, the only issue I have ever had with playing my ill/rad is runing out of end. So hibernate allows me to keep debuff toggles running while I am in hiber getting my end back.
lastly, as local said, ice armor allows you to slot def sets as well as resist sets which is nice so you can slot KB ios (and skip Acrobatics) lotg for recharge, and kismet for acc. I use it mostly for set bonuses rather then actual defense because as an ill/rad I rarely take aggro (thats what my PA/Phant is for).
Masque has a valid basis to go with Ice. I play my Ill/Rad entirely at range, so have far less of a need for Hibernate. I use Deceive on any foe who looks at me funny rather than being focused on my PA or Phanty. Most of the time, the Resistance in Fire Shield plus my heal takes care of the small amount of damage I take.
(I think Masque meant "Ice Storm" rather than "Freezing Rain," the power from the Storm Secondary.)
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Don't forget Primal Forces Mastery is pretty good--it can fit two Kinetic Crash sets in Power Blast/Energy Torrent for 7.5% recharge each, a resist based Shield, Conserve Power to help with end, and Power Boost which, with the Rech to have Perma PA, you can have power boost up every 30 seconds (it lasts 15) to double your holdtime on Blind/Flash/EM Pulse. I've found it to be very useful.
I also use Ice on my Ill/Rad. Ice blast, Ice Armor, Frost Breath.
As Local Man mentionned, you want a fast ST blast to go with SW and Blind, or if you have enough recharge, just SW... I like Ice Armor to put in a LoTG and Red Fortune, for 12.5% extra recharge. Frost Breath is meh, but in my case is slotted with a Posi for 6.25% recharge, and will possibly be slotted with a Ragnarok purple in the future. It's also ok damage on contained targets. I'd actually rather have Hibernate, but can't bring myself to losing on the recharge. Fire would also be a good choice, but I wanted a DEF armor for the possible sets. YMMV.
I just tweaked a build (I used Ice before) and worked in Mace Mastery. Still able to get the perma stuff with 44.8% S/L defense and the poison ray for added defense debuff. Another interesting twist is the near perma spider pet to go with Phantasm and PA.
Hmmm interesting about the spider pet. Hadn't realized Controllers had the pet in that Patron... Might be fun to play around with a 3rd pet. Might make up for the slowness of poison ray. Truth be told, concept-wise the mace would be better on my toon anyway.
Wonder what kind of downtime on the pet I'm looking at with 230% recharge... 2 minutes or so?
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Is it fast enough to make a chain? (That is, do you have to wait for anything to recharge)|
Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
I just tweaked a build (I used Ice before) and worked in Mace Mastery. Still able to get the perma stuff with 44.8% S/L defense and the poison ray for added defense debuff. Another interesting twist is the near perma spider pet to go with Phantasm and PA.
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Since Poison Ray has a much higher recharge than the other ST blasts in the APPs
Edit: Also, with the recharge for Perma PA, you should have no problem at all making the PPP pet perma.
Yeah, you're right Ben, PPP pet would be perma on my build (confirmed in Mids last night). Erin, (or anybody) what is your experience with this pet? (don't mean to hijack the thread, but since we're on the subject).
I have no real experience with it. My corruptor selected it, but I've only recently (GR) tinkered seriously with villains. I've looked it up and it's an "ok" pet, but not a gamechanger. 25% defense, decent attacks.
EDIT: Actually, since I'm running leadership, I wonder what the value of slotting the 5% defense in the spider would be. Brings the total defense to a shade over 34% (25% natural, 4.135% Maneuvers, 5% IO).
Here is my build:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
(3) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
(5) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(5) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 1: Radiant Aura (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(7) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
(7) Doctored Wounds - Heal
(9) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(9) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
Level 2: Blind (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
(15) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
(15) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
(17) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(25) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 4: Radiation Infection (A) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff
(37) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
(37) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
(40) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
(40) Dampened Spirits - Recharge/Endurance
(50) Defense Debuff IO
Level 6: Accelerate Metabolism (A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod
(36) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Recharge
(36) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
(36) Efficacy Adaptor - Accuracy/Recharge
(37) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy
(46) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Endurance
Level 8: Deceive (A) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Endurance
(11) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge
(11) Coercive Persuasion - Contagious Confusion
(13) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Recharge
(13) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Recharge
Level 10: Superior Invisibility (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(34) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(43) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(46) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
Level 12: Enervating Field (A) Endurance Reduction IO
(17) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 14: Hasten (A) Recharge Reduction IO
(25) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 16: Group Invisibility (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 18: Phantom Army (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
(19) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
(19) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(21) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
(21) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge
(23) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge
Level 20: Lingering Radiation (A) Accuracy IO
(23) Accuracy IO
Level 22: Maneuvers (A) Red Fortune - Defense
(40) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Red Fortune - Endurance
(43) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(50) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
Level 24: Combat Jumping (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(34) Karma - Knockback Protection
Level 26: Spectral Terror (A) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Recharge
(27) Glimpse of the Abyss - Endurance/Fear
(27) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Endurance
(29) Glimpse of the Abyss - Fear/Range
(29) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Fear/Recharge
Level 28: Choking Cloud (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
(31) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
(31) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
(31) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
Level 30: Boxing (A) Empty
Level 32: Phantasm (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
(33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
(33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
(34) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
Level 35: Tough (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
Level 38: EM Pulse (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
(39) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
(39) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
(39) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
Level 41: Scorpion Shield (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(42) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(42) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
(42) Serendipity - Defense/Endurance
Level 44: Weave (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(45) Red Fortune - Defense
(45) Red Fortune - Endurance
(45) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
(46) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
Level 47: Poisonous Ray (A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
(48) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Endurance
(48) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
(48) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Defense Debuff
Level 49: Summon Tarantula (A) Recharge Reduction IO
(50) Recharge Reduction IO
------------
Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest (A) Empty
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Swift (A) Run Speed IO
Level 1: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO
Level 1: Health (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
Level 1: Stamina (A) Endurance Modification IO
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Quote:
The attack chain of Blind-SW-Blast-SW requires recharge of under 4 seconds on the Blast. It would take a heck of a lot of Recharge to get a 24 second Recharge down to under 4 seconds. Even if you fully slot the power for Recharge, you get it a little over 12 seconds. A perma PA build will get it to about 6 seconds.
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Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Is it fast enough to make a chain? (That is, do you have to wait for anything to recharge)
Since Poison Ray has a much higher recharge than the other ST blasts in the APPs Edit: Also, with the recharge for Perma PA, you should have no problem at all making the PPP pet perma. |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I've been tossing it around in my head for the last week or so if it'd be worth it to go for one of the patron pools or keep the fire APP. Fire works so well with my perma PA ill/rad and its a very stable attack chain which i can toss fireball in with for some aoe when I can. But the idea of yet another pet to add to my dps is very tempting. Problem for me is that I cant afford to do both, 1 build with perma PA and fire and another with perma PA and mace mastery lol. Unless I get really lucky with hero merits in the next few weeks heh.
If you alpha slot later it looks like you could push your Recharge even lower. I dont know if you could get a steady attack chain but the PPP pet will be even closer to perma. I have an Elec/Force Field hypotethical build where the pet is up every 287 seconds; just calculating the 30% Recharge that is unaffected by ED, that power would now recharge in 220 seconds. Not only is it a 67 second drop, it's also perma, because the recharge on the pet is 240.
I expect a large upswing in characters taking PPP pets in the new end game.
Want to throw my 2 cents in and say Psi Mastery. PA and Phantasm does plenty of damage outside of Psi, so taking another psi attack to me is no big deal.
But another awesome reason, is in my opinion, psi damage is much more common in late game, and indomitable will gives a NICE defense buff to psi damage on top of the mez protection. So if you get enough recharge, you can basicly have perma mez protection and up to about 20 something percent psi defense (can't remember off hand what the base psi defense is for it, but remember that its pretty good).
Quote:
Yeah, the psi defense is really nice, but the reason i picked fire over psi is that alot of mobs have good psi resist (like robots) and it's important to have a varied damage type for those specific mobs.
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Originally Posted by Demondante
Want to throw my 2 cents in and say Psi Mastery. PA and Phantasm does plenty of damage outside of Psi, so taking another psi attack to me is no big deal.
But another awesome reason, is in my opinion, psi damage is much more common in late game, and indomitable will gives a NICE defense buff to psi damage on top of the mez protection. So if you get enough recharge, you can basicly have perma mez protection and up to about 20 something percent psi defense (can't remember off hand what the base psi defense is for it, but remember that its pretty good). |
Quote:
Also, note that PA does all psi damage even though the attacks look like ice/fire/energy attacks.
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Originally Posted by Demondante
Want to throw my 2 cents in and say Psi Mastery. PA and Phantasm does plenty of damage outside of Psi, so taking another psi attack to me is no big deal.
But another awesome reason, is in my opinion, psi damage is much more common in late game, and indomitable will gives a NICE defense buff to psi damage on top of the mez protection. So if you get enough recharge, you can basicly have perma mez protection and up to about 20 something percent psi defense (can't remember off hand what the base psi defense is for it, but remember that its pretty good). |
Ah, didn't realize all there attacks where psi damage lol.
Quote:
Take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide . . . it explains it all.
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Originally Posted by Demondante
Ah, didn't realize all their attacks were psi damage lol.
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LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide . . . it explains it all.
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Need to start referring to it as the Ill/Rad Bible. That way it gets the reverance it deserves. I could go door to door with it. "Have you heard the good news about GM pwning?"
Quote:
Not nearly a bible . . . maybe more like an owner's manual. It is nearly that dry. It is really a compilation of stuff I have seen on these forums over the years, plus the great info at City of Data and Paragon Wiki, and a few of my own insights.
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Originally Posted by Griff Mender
Need to start referring to it as the Ill/Rad Bible. That way it gets the reverance it deserves. I could go door to door with it. "Have you heard the good news about GM pwning?"
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LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
If you feel it is dry you could probably spice it up a bit with some animal sacrifice....maybe a flood or two...you know, the exciting stuff that sells. Maybe a paragraph or two at the end describing how the end of all CoH will come and the only way to save your self is having Perma PA (Which as a GM slaying Ill/rad I find to be a completely logical reasoning)
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Not nearly a bible . . . maybe more like an owner's manual. It is nearly that dry. It is really a compilation of stuff I have seen on these forums over the years, plus the great info at City of Data and Paragon Wiki, and a few of my own insights.
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What would be the best epic pool power to pick for my ill/rad? Please explain why also. I'm going to make my build perma PA. I will be soloing most of the time with this build. thx for any replys.