Question about Burn/Choking Cloud/others
By
Carnifax_NA,
Posted on: 2010-11-09 23:51 in Player Questions
I'm not sure about Choking Cloud, but generally, if a power doesn't accept Acc enhancements, it's autohit.. Patches, whether dropped at your feet (like Burn) or targeted (like Bonfire) are autohit against anything in the area; Accuracy is unneeded and useless.
@Roderick
Hmm, interseting. I didn't think there's anything that's actually "auto-hit" in the game anymore.
Thanks Roderick.
Anyone can shed more light about Choking Cloud?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
Anyone can shed more light about Choking Cloud?
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Pardon my crude screenshot, but I wanted to include as much info as I could without having to use several pictures.
Basically, it shows the detail for the power completely unslotted on the left. Then it has the enhancement that I used to test this along with the new detail for the power on the right, which shows that it's accuracy does appear to be improved by the enhancement, despite Accuracy enhancements not being allowed. I further added one of the Hit Rolls with the power not hitting a target, proving that it's not autohit to begin with.
Yes, I actually just chanced logging into the game (at work ATM lol) and checked that myself. Your tip was right on the money. Thanks a lot man really appreciate it.
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
How about, say, Smoke? Also, there's Taunt, which takes accuracy, but only because in PvP it can miss.
I've never been very clear... what powers actually are auto-hit?
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I was pretty sure that the old version of Burn did make Acc checks, just lots of them fairly quickly. So not being able to slot for Acc didn't really matter too much (and indeed was by design)
Nowadays the initial burst is a direct PBAOE, not a pseudo pet (you can verify this by trying it without any enemies in range, no patch will drop) and it makes a ToHit roll as far as i'm aware. So the lack of ability to add Acc (at least for scrappers, I'm not sure about Brutes and Tanks versions) is an oversight / bug.
Best way around it is to slot some Acc/Dam PBAOE sets.
For Choking Cloud the same applies, although it is by design in this case. Best way around it is Frankenslotting some Acc/Whatever IOs from the Hold IO sets.
Smoke is Autohit in PvE as far as I know, but may need a ToHit in PvP.
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I've heard that Scrapper Burn is broken. Brute, Tank and Blaster versions all drop a patch whether an enemy is in range or not. Scrapper version only drops the patch if an enemy is in range, meaning that a FA scrapper hit by an Immob with nothing nearby can't break free.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Nowadays the initial burst is a direct PBAOE, not a pseudo pet (you can verify this by trying it without any enemies in range, no patch will drop) and it makes a ToHit roll as far as i'm aware. So the lack of ability to add Acc (at least for scrappers, I'm not sure about Brutes and Tanks versions) is an oversight / bug.
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Also, one person testing the scrapper version reported hitting it, waiting for it to recharge, then hitting it again, and repeating this a few times, and having multiple patches drop when it finally worked (an enemy was nearby, and hit by many "alpha" ticks).
I'm fairly certain that Burn is still pure pseudo-pet, for the ATs it's working properly on.
@Roderick
Quote:
Not sure about Burn, but I know about Choking Cloud. It will not accept Accuracy, but you can slot accuracy into the power with Set IOs and Hami-Os. Its accuracy can also increase from Global Accuracy.|
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
Ok, this is quite a basic question.
Powers like Burn and Chocking Cloud (I'm sure there are others I can't think of at the moment) that are flagged to not accept Accuracy IOs. Naturally, you can't slot any generic accuracy enhancements in them. But, you can slot dual/triple/quad aspect IOs or HOs that boost accuracy with something else (Like I can use the Acc/Dam or Acc/Hold IOs). Would that boost their accuracy or not? Because in Mids, their accuracy DOES increase if you slot such IOs or HOs in the power. But, in-game if you mouse over the power, it doesn't show any increase to the accuracy of the power. So yeah...does slotting accuracy in powers like that help or is it a waste? (Yes, I realize that in most cases you're going for sets in which case you will want some IOs in there regardless of whether they boost accuracy or not. But I'm asking about some cases when you're only Frankenslotting or using SOs/HOs). Thanks! |
Does accuracy do any good? We're not entirely sure. The general description on how the power works is that it checks for a hit first, then applies its two types of holds -- 80% chance of a Mag 1 hold and 50% chance of a Mag 2 Hold -- so accuracy helps. But there was once a response from the Devs regarding accuracy in Choking Cloud once that said that NOTHING could buff Choking Cloud's accuracy.
So, we're not entirely sure whether accuracy does anything, since the effects of the power have an additional random aspect. Personally, I try to get decent Global Accuracy, and don't worry about slotting Choking Cloud with Accuracy. I max slot for Hold because that extends the hold through more pulses, giving it a greater chance to hit in the long run. The Lockdown +2 Mag proc also adds a greater chance for the power to hit by adding an additional chance for 2 Mag when there is a 90% chance of at least Mag 1 hitting.
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Yes, adding Acc/x IO's to Choking Cloud will increase it's chance to hit.
CC's kind of an odd power to begin with.
It's got the normal base 75% chance to hit and then IF it hits, it's got a 50% chance of applying the hold.
On it's own I've found it to be a rather 'Meh' power, acceptable but not outstanding.
However, slotting in a couple of Acc/End and Acc/Hold IOs makes it a very nice power.
You've still only got the 50% chance of the hold actually triggering, but at least you hit with nearly every tick of the power...
There are actually several powers out there that benefit from the multi-aspect IO hole (like the Widow power Mind Link). The Devs even commented on Mind Link using Recharge/x multi-IO's to get around the doesn't accept recharge enhancers, so they are obviously aware of it.
Whether or not they intend to change these powers to prevent this is up in the air though.
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Quote:
Well, the "real numbers" in the game seem to suggest that Accuracy helps, but when a Dev says NOTHING will buff that accuracy, it at least leaves it up for doubt.|
Originally Posted by Soulwind
Yes, adding Acc/x IO's to Choking Cloud will increase it's chance to hit.
CC's kind of an odd power to begin with. It's got the normal base 75% chance to hit and then IF it hits, it's got a 50% chance of applying the hold. On it's own I've found it to be a rather 'Meh' power, acceptable but not outstanding. However, slotting in a couple of Acc/End and Acc/Hold IOs makes it a very nice power. You've still only got the 50% chance of the hold actually triggering, but at least you hit with nearly every tick of the power... There are actually several powers out there that benefit from the multi-aspect IO hole (like the Widow power Mind Link). The Devs even commented on Mind Link using Recharge/x multi-IO's to get around the doesn't accept recharge enhancers, so they are obviously aware of it. Whether or not they intend to change these powers to prevent this is up in the air though. |
As for the 50%, you are mostly right, but not quite. Because of the unique two "chance for" holds in Choking Cloud, you get:
10% chance of no mag
40% chance of Mag 1 -- that does nothing but CAN stack with a Mag 3 hold to hold a Boss. (It might hold Rikti Monkeys.)
10% chance of Mag 2 -- that will hold only a minion
40% chance of Mag 3 -- that will hold minions and Lieutenants.
Add the Lockdown proc, and you get another 20% chance of adding Mag 2, so stacked with any other mag will hold minions and lieutenants. Since there is a 90% chance of at least Mag 1, you have a very good chance to hold bosses on one application of any other hold, even without the "overpower."
The power repeats these chances every 5 seconds. Fully slotted, the hold lasts for just about 15 seconds, long enough for three pulses. Given time, the odds become pretty good that most of the foes will be held just by standing in the area.
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Ok, this is quite a basic question.
Powers like Burn and Chocking Cloud (I'm sure there are others I can't think of at the moment) that are flagged to not accept Accuracy IOs. Naturally, you can't slot any generic accuracy enhancements in them. But, you can slot dual/triple/quad aspect IOs or HOs that boost accuracy with something else (Like I can use the Acc/Dam or Acc/Hold IOs). Would that boost their accuracy or not?
Because in Mids, their accuracy DOES increase if you slot such IOs or HOs in the power. But, in-game if you mouse over the power, it doesn't show any increase to the accuracy of the power. So yeah...does slotting accuracy in powers like that help or is it a waste?
(Yes, I realize that in most cases you're going for sets in which case you will want some IOs in there regardless of whether they boost accuracy or not. But I'm asking about some cases when you're only Frankenslotting or using SOs/HOs).
Thanks!
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor