To brute or not to brute?

I don't really get it. Or is my mids numbers off?

Tanks have better Defense/Resist than the other 2 and do less damage BUT-----> in mids, the base numbers for damage are higher on tanks than brutes

Brutes are said to be more survivable than scrappers but the base defense/resist numbers are the same.

Do brutes just have a higher HP cap than scrappers making them more survivable or do they have better defense/resist numbers? How do brutes do more damage than tanks if the numbers are lower? Does it only add up if the fury is built up? If fury isn't on, are they weaker than tanks?

Brutes' base damage is lower than Tankers. However, the amount of Fury generated from a single attack should be enough to boost their damage above Tankers (or at least get pretty close).

Brutes compare to Scrappers a lot closer. However, higher health means higher regen; higher caps also make the Brute stronger in team settings.

In general, Scrappers should outdamage Brutes who outdamage Tankers. Tankers can take more punishment than Brutes who can take more punishment than Scrappers.

The gap in those chains between Tankers and Brutes are actually a lot bigger than the gaps between Brutes and Scrappers. On paper, the difference doesn't seem to be that much, but at least in my personal experience, I can definitely feel the difference.

Brutes have lower base damage than tanks. However, if you adjust their Fury to 30-40% it is noticably more than tanks, and at 60% (which most brutes can sustain indefinitely), they do just a bit less than scrappers.

Each AT has a "Ranged Damage Modifier" as well as a "Melee Damage Modifier." What this determines is how much damage attacks do, based on their recharge, for that AT.
There is some variation, amongst the sets and individual powers, but it's a good value to keep in mind when comparing ATs in general terms.

Tankers have a melee modifier of 0.80 and Brutes have 0.75.

As Eiko-chan mentioned:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eiko-chan Brutes' base damage is lower than Tankers. However, the amount of Fury generated from a single attack should be enough to boost their damage above Tankers (or at least get pretty close).

Fury is what makes the difference. Because Fury stacks with damage enhancements and damage buffs, you can't simply consider it a boost to the damage modifier.

Damage is like this: Modifier * (1+Enhancements+Fury+Other Buffs)
If you figure most attacks will be enhanced to ~95%, you will find that a Brute only has to maintain a 15% damage boost from Fury to match the Tanker.
That's incredibly easy. In reality, the damage boost from Fury will top off at ~120%, IIRC. The average will vary based on play style and strength of the build, but you'd be safe to call it 100%.

With that in mind, Brutes will do about 50% more damage than Tankers and only something like ~10% less than Scrappers.

What does all this mean? It means damage buffs, like Build Up, Against All Odds, IO bonuses, or when someone else gives you Forge or Fortitude, the Brute benefits about the same as the Tanker. The Scrapper and Blaster would benefit significantly more.

Also to note since people haven't covered it yet, Brutes have Scrapper like defenses at the base amounts, but they have at or near Tanker level caps on those stats.

Scrappers can get the big hits if they crit, but when it comes to sustained damage and survivability, a Brute will win.

That's not to say one is outright better than the other. There's a lot of room for variation on the different powersets, and mainly it boils down to a question of playstyle. The differences can be quite subtle though, since they are very similar.

Thats cool. I figured that's how it was. I was just was shocked to see the damage output was so low in Mids. I'm working a SS/SD brute. I was hopeing it'd do more damage than a tank of the same powers.

Note - the low base damage being offset by fury is also why brutes get a +700% damage cap (total of 800% of base, 95% is usually from enhancements).

In comparison, Scrappers and Blasters are +400% - note, this gives the brute and scrapper the approximate same max damage.

Cool beans. Thanks guys.