Adding defense would probably do as much or more to solve the problem of taking too much damage than more recharge for HF. You wouldn't get hit so much, so you wouldn't need HF as much.
Not that a defense build and a high recharge build are incompatible; as you know, defense powers give you the opportunity to slot LotG +Recharges. A good start would be to pick up a Steadfast +Def, the Fighting pool--both Tough and Weave are very helpful for a Fire tanker--and CJ if you don't have it already. Maneuvers is also an option if you don't mind the end cost and have a pool free.
After that, personally I'd aim for increasing S/L/E/NE as close to the soft-cap as you can without otherwise gimping the build. Some sets to look at for defense bonuses would be:
Reactive Armor
Kinetic Combat
Mocking Beratement
Perfect Zinger
Rectified Reticle
Eradication
Mako's Bite, Obliteration, and Touch of Death are also an option, but because they have primarily positional defense bonuses, they'll cost more slots than KC, Erad, etc.
Since FA has no defense of its own, getting to the soft-cap--especially for both S/L and E/NE--will be a challenge. However, even 30% defense would have a very significant effect on your survivability.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
great information, thanks a million!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Of my current two favorite Tankers, one has the Fire primary and the other has the Battle Axe secondary, so I understand completely.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I've had this fire/axe concept character lying around for a long time who I really liked but was a PITA to play. I got him to the 30's by sheer force of will, but they he got shelved. Dusted him off to check out the FA changes and the next thing I knew he was level 42 and I was having a blast mowing through +0/x8 missions.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
Since FA has no defense of its own, getting to the soft-cap--especially for both S/L and E/NE--will be a challenge. However, even 30% defense would have a very significant effect on your survivability.
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(I did make an exception for Blazing Aura, using 3 Erads and some Multistrikes to get the end reduction enhanced more and ignore recharge enhancement).
Reactive Armors in the resist powers, and no sets in the build up/ fiery embrace powers that would interfere with their recharge (i.e., no Gaussian's). And the cliché but effective 5 level 50 Doctored Wounds in Healing Flames.
Kind of simple overall. [edit: let me clarify, I mean, the plan has a zen-like lack of complication, not "anyone could have figured this out, dolt."]
To reiterate, this is a medium-defense plan that maximizes offensive output (as much as a Tanker can, anyway).
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Of my current two favorite Tankers, one has the Fire primary and the other has the Battle Axe secondary, so I understand completely.
Yeah, my Fiery Aura Tanker is currently running 29.55% defense to s/l/e/n damage (and considerably less to fire/cold, but at least fire I resist at 90%). Might pick up Combat Jumping after I19. I could have had more defense, but I wanted to keep my offense highly slotted and massively enhanced. If you don't want to fight deep purples, and thus don't need tons of accuracy, it's possible to have all one's AoEs slotted to the ED cap for damage and recharge and still get good defense out of them. I'm particularly fond of 3 Erads and 3 Cleaving Blows in the PBAoEs for e/n defense and then four KCs and 2 frankenslotted multi-aspect IOs in the single-target attacks for s/l defense. (I did make an exception for Blazing Aura, using 3 Erads and some Multistrikes to get the end reduction enhanced more and ignore recharge enhancement). Reactive Armors in the resist powers, and no sets in the build up/ fiery embrace powers that would interfere with their recharge (i.e., no Gaussian's). And the cliché but effective 5 level 50 Doctored Wounds in Healing Flames. Kind of simple overall. [edit: let me clarify, I mean, the plan has a zen-like lack of complication, not "anyone could have figured this out, dolt."] To reiterate, this is a medium-defense plan that maximizes offensive output (as much as a Tanker can, anyway). |
Very good advice here.
Waaay back in the early days, I often stated that a fire/axe tank, over time, just might be the most damaging toon possible. While those days are long gone, fire/axe is still a rip-roaring combo.
With the recent changes, fire is once again a serious damage machine. Axe adds in notable damage as well, plenty of AOE, and a ton of soft mitigation from the plentiful knockdown.
Fire armor adds damage to axe, axe adds survivability to fire armor. Everybody is happy!
Slot for maximum defense and recharge (lots of good advice above, 4 Kinetic Combats and two Mako's (quad and acc/end/rech) is a very sweet combo.)
I'd also recommend looking hard at Mocking Beratement, it's a nice set.) You ARE a tank, after all.
I have a lvl 50 Fire Axe that I love. The rikti Axe is freaking sweet. I slot Swoop for knock up. Why? Why would I slot Knock up? Because I love being in a giant mob of angry baddies and seeing one pop 20 feet in the air every once in a while. Before they fixed burn I had several slotted for knock back, just to keep the mobs on their backs. So much knock back I felt like Sauron knocking herds of baddies with one swipe. Fire kept them taunted fairly well, leaving me enough time for healing flames. Now that they have adjusted fire, I have removed most of the knock-back, but I still have one for giggles.
got him to 50 the other night, compiling my shopping list- good stuff everybody.
Last night I dropped a couple of Force Feedback + Rech in Whirling Axe and Pendulum, and on a X8 map they made a substantial impact on his efficiency. Gonna drop the Armageddon chance for fire damage in his aura too, that'll be fun....
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Hey, I'm thinking of rolling a Fire/BA, but as I see it there are too many /BA attacks that are too good. So, which are skipables for a tanker? I'm thinking chop and possibly swoop if I need to skip another.
Quote:
Because Fiery Aura isn't especially tight, I would lean toward keeping Swoop, myself. I generally drop Chop -- it's not a bad attack, but something has to go, and Swoop hits harder and the knockup chance is 100%, so it's better mitigation.|
Originally Posted by Rothb
Hey, I'm thinking of rolling a Fire/BA, but as I see it there are too many /BA attacks that are too good. So, which are skipables for a tanker? I'm thinking chop and possibly swoop if I need to skip another.
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I like having Beheader/Gash/Swoop/Cleave as a single-target chain and Cleave/Pendulum/Whirling Axe (and in this case, Burn) as an AoE "chain," so I prefer to keep the other Axe attacks if possible.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
nother quick question:
I'm leaning toward the ice mastery EPP for thematic reasons, but frankly I'm having a hard time ignoring Physical Perfection....is that as good as I think it is for a tank?
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
You've got Consume, Stamina, Health and Healing Flames. You'll be fine without PP.
It's tasty, but I passed it up for Fireball myself, and have never regretted the choice. Not all that familiar with Ice, but I'm sure there's something cool you want out of it.
Quote:
I'm thinking Shiver's slow will make for some great mitigation on top of all my knockdown, and as a part-time farmer he'll get some good use out of Ice Storm's giant AoE.|
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
It's tasty, but I passed it up for Fireball myself, and have never regretted the choice. Not all that familiar with Ice, but I'm sure there's something cool you want out of it.
|
But on the other hand, I didn't realize Melt Armor was an AoE......hmmm.
Sorta spoiled for choice with the tanker APPs, I'm liking them all!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Melt armor is so so..long recharge...went ice with my old fire/ice tanker..loved it especially on the old Demon farm maps
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)
Here's my I-19 ready Fire/Axe tanker.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Cherokee Sun - Super Build: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam(43)
Level 1: Beheader -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(45), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Numna-Heal/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Gash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Knock%(17)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(7), Krma-ResKB(7)
Level 8: Consume -- Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(9), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(9), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(11)
Level 10: Temperature Protection -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(43)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 16: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Knock%(21)
Level 18: Burn -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(34), Armgdn-Dmg(42), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(43), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 20: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 22: Swoop -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 24: Blazing Aura -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(25), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Dam%(34)
Level 26: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(27), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 28: Whirling Axe -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(29), Erad-Acc/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 32: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(37), Mocking-Rchg(40), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Cleave -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Pendulum -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 44: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 47: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- Dmg-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntkC'bat-Knock%(45)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Heal-I(A), EndMod-I(15), EndMod-I(21)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 0: Ninja Run
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1425;734;1468;HEX;| |78DA9D53D96E1251183EC3521C180A9452282D2D506A4B5B687BD725C6745593926| |0215EA9646C8F30162901AAADDEF8006E2FE083186FDCF559D4C63D3171C17F39D4| |F4D649E6FBCE9CFF3FDFBFCDC9EDAF1A42DC392D3463A56A369BA5A259DB910D67C| |E2C5B5BD1958A6CECEE48192FECD5E219C0BA6CC497F7ACEAB64B08D1CFBEA55579| |55D69A32BB6EC9C6416969AF6186952527AB526697CD56AB2A4B4BFB3270AE068AB| |2D6CA7616467E77B79ADD9066DDAA95DDF451A84BB9EDA5E5BA55AEB4C0E0EB786D| |CB46B362D5836B756B2BBB56938DF2412967365B10380219A5E17DA60368F08AB65| |D0CC1624CB88789E209A28924D121FAD1D376883C5052D8CE336D12751788D2D780| |66C5735DA982AC769614A6CE10658A1A3A640A441FC1CFAEFCEC2CEB605907CBFA8| |B447DD04127A76973F6D2D1AE10D30FD88C899720E4125D24E47A6043CB89874CF7| |88DCF7895E809FCE429A1ED6F0E84484E815583CAA131EEE84C1B51BDC103F37240| |9A97895827792AA9D62B281C5A78AF171313D5C4C0F17D3CBC5BC864801D5CBC029| |4A2BB148949E239A98279A5D200A836C90DD4570C08E5B5F4021A414421CA98F23F| |571A4084F23C3D3780AEE619558F8166D456E10C56F12256E13D92152BF6A413FB7| |20CA2D881EFB27BE82DE800A3FF0C186DD1B3C647A4F34F48E8963394036A68617F| |3D3D4123CC314CFF013E80DABFC862B5474CA221ABBCE9DD821FAA663511C37C921| |4638E0086731C259A438EE77701F6577E7E84F5238F98BE937D31F0ED26612D4DB0| |0643BAEB21DE76CA739DB59CEF60DC84EB2AC36C9939F66FA0C96ACB2648F59DE82| |6546CD7026465B838EA31B6557376A888797E6514EF1DFB2E138BAA14264E868DE7| |174BB6C5A8AB6BAE344BD4CE97F67DABA9F4ED2FA3F9FC746474EDF74031611F200| |DA055C5D44B8849F977165E2EA0AC2167EB69F189D427D7398D73CC202C2224208F| |21377D1D3E501F02018085E846E041F821F218810457884D0FE0B02EEF52E| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
was fooling around with mids and cooked up a melee-capped AoE build:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura
- (A) Armageddon - Damage
- (9) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (9) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
- (15) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (7) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Recharge
- (3) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
- (3) Titanium Coating - Endurance/Recharge
- (13) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (15) Titanium Coating - Resistance
- (33) Titanium Coating - Endurance
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (5) Miracle - Heal/Recharge
- (5) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (13) Harmonized Healing - Heal/Recharge
- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (7) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (11) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (25) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (27) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (A) Empty
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (11) Karma - Knockback Protection
- (A) Empty
- (A) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
- (17) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Recharge
- (17) Titanium Coating - Endurance/Recharge
- (21) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (42) Titanium Coating - Resistance
- (42) Titanium Coating - Endurance
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (19) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
- (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (19) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (21) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (23) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (34) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (23) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt
- (36) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge
- (36) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range
- (36) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range
- (37) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (27) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (29) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (29) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (42) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (46) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (39) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Neuronic Shutdown - Accuracy/Recharge
- (45) Neuronic Shutdown - Endurance/Hold
- (45) Neuronic Shutdown - Accuracy/Endurance
- (45) Neuronic Shutdown - Hold/Range
- (46) Neuronic Shutdown - Accuracy/Hold/Recharge
- (46) Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
- (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Recharge
- (48) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
- (48) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
- (48) Enfeebled Operation - Immobilize/Range
- (50) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (50) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (25) Miracle - +Recovery
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
Set Bonus Totals:
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 27.56% Defense(Smashing)
- 27.56% Defense(Lethal)
- 7.25% Defense(Fire)
- 7.25% Defense(Cold)
- 7.25% Defense(Energy)
- 7.25% Defense(Negative)
- 6% Defense(Psionic)
- 40.69% Defense(Melee)
- 8.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 8.5% Defense(AoE)
- 2% Enhancement(Held)
- 46.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 58% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 147.58 HP (7.875%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Held) 8.25%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 7.7%
- MezResist(Sleep) 4.4%
- MezResist(Stun) 11%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
- 6.5% (0.109 End/sec) Recovery
- 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire)
- 2.52% Resistance(Cold)
- 1.875% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% RunSpeed
I can see why people like sm/le defense, getting to the cap on melee takes SLOTS.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Most (but not all) better typed bonuses can be had in 3-4 slots, and most (again, not all) of the better positional bonuses can be had in 5-6 slots. So yah, positional bonuses generally take more slots.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Hola tankers, I come in peace!
I've had this fire/axe concept character lying around for a long time who I really liked but was a PITA to play. I got him to the 30's by sheer force of will, but they he got shelved. Dusted him off to check out the FA changes and the next thing I knew he was level 42 and I was having a blast mowing through +0/x8 missions.
At his current pace he'll be 50 before I know it so it's time to start shopping for his 'finalized' IO build. He's the only tank I've ever played to a meaningful level, so I've got zero idea of what's good, what's bad, what to build for, what to ignore, etc. I'm leaning toward a super recharge build, as I find myself regularly popping greens waiting for Healing Flames to come back up, and any spawn he happens across when Build Up and Fiery Embrace are up at the same time vanishes in seconds.
So, what's 'good' for this guy? Inf is no object.
He's a lot of fun and fairly survivable with his current Frankenslotting, but I want to take him to the next level.
Suggestions, builds, advice, all welcome with open arms!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone