New Defender Vengeance Question.
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2010-10-19 05:45 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It severely hurt me to read that.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Personally, I find Scourge useless.
Meanwhile you can Crit as a scrapper on a target at 100%, so it's quite a bit more reliable and useful. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Were you at 100% HP?
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
It severely hurt me to read that.
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Crit!|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Were you at 100% HP?
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-Rachel-
I did a fairly in-depth analysis of the damage differences between Defender and Corruptor a few months ago in this thread: (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=235905)
A lot of it is me overlooking simple things like calculating in Enhancement Values, or the inability to find accurate information on something until a poster corrected a mistake I made, so I'm going to post a cleaned up version of all the things I had learned so OP and others don't have to trudge through all of the fine tuning portion.
It's going to be fairly lengthy/messy regardless.
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All of this is without taking into consideration what enhancements will do for each AT. Corruptors will actually pull ahead again after this is done as illustrated here: |
Originally Posted by Warkupo
Corruptors do more damage per hit because their damage scale is at 0.75 as opposed to defender's 0.65. If an attack is normally calculated as doing 100 damage (Known as the powers BASE damage in my example), then it will do 75 damage for a Corrupter, and 65 for a Defender, a difference of 10.
If the attack has a BASE damage of 200, then it will do 150 for a Corrupter, and 130 for the Defender, a difference of 20 damage. For a power with a base damage of 300 we get; Corruptor: 225 damage; Defender: 195 damage; Difference: 30 damage. The more damage the attack does, the more effective it will be for a Corruptor over a Defender as their higher Damage Scaler doesn't divide up the BASE damage of an attack as much as it does for a Defender. Vigilance offers a Defender a 30% damage buff while solo. Damage buffs are calculated after you have factored in the specific Archetypes Damage Scaler. So if a Defender is using a power which deals 100 damage at its' base (65 damage for the Defender) that means that, once you factor in the 30% Damage Buff from Vigilance, the attack shall do 78 damage. This is THREE (3) damage more than the Corruptor will do. |
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
I am going to calculate 3 IO's of Damage Enhancements, which offers a DamBuff of 99.08% to both AT's. This is going to make for some messy decimals, so I will be rounding at the second decimal place. I will once again be using a Theoretical Attack which does 75 damage when used by a Corruptor, and 65 damage on a Defender. I will also be using the In-Game definition to determine Critical Hit values for Corruptor.
75 * (1 + 0.9908) = 149.31 Damage for a Corruptor 65 * (1 + 0.9908 + 0.3) = 148.90 Damage for a Defender WITH Vigilance 65 * (1 + 0.9908) = 129.40 Damage for a Defender WITHOUT Vigilance |
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Originally Posted by m3lon
Also according to in game numbers scourge is "2.5% chance for every percentage health below 50%"
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So, if an enemy is at 49% of it's total HP, we subtract 49% from 50%, or 0.49 from 0.50, which will get us 0.01. Multiply 0.01 by 100 to get 1, and then multiply 1 by 0.025 to get 0.025, or a 2.5% chance to do a critical hit.
If an enemy is at 48% of it's total hp, we subtract 0.48 from 0.50 to get 0.02, multiply it by 100 to get 2, and then multiply it by 0.025 to get 0.05, 5% chance to do a critical hit.
A 2.5% chance to do a critical hit is best expressed as an average damage increase. It is, essentially, how much damage I expect the power to do over a billion or so uses. For example, if I have a power that does 100 damage, but has a 2.5% chance to do double damage, I expect the average damage of that power over many uses to be increased by 2.5%. If I have a power that does 100 damage, but has a 100% chance to do double damage, I expect that power to always do twice it's original damage.
The formula for this is expressed as: Damage * (1 + Critical Hit Chance) = Average Damage.
Using all of this, I made a little chart that quickly shows the Average Damage expected out of Scourge at variable amounts of remaining enemy HP:
[/quote= Warkupo]
75 * (1 + 0.9908) = 149.31 Damage for a Corruptor
65 * (1 + 0.9908 + 0.3) = 148.90 Damage for a Defender WITH Vigilance
65 * (1 + 0.9908) = 129.40 Damage for a Defender WITHOUT Vigilance
100-50% HP; Corruptor: 149.31; Defender: 148.90
49% HP; Corruptor: 153.04; Defender: 148.90
40% HP; Corruptor: 186.64; Defender: 148.90
30% HP; Corruptor: 223.97; Defender: 148.90
20% HP; Corruptor: 261.29; Defender: 148.90
10% HP; Corruptor: 298.62; Defender: 148.90 [/quote]
The biggest arguments I see when comparing Corruptor and Defender is that the Defender's higher buff values will allow it to do better damage when paired with certain primary/secondary powers than is possible for a Corruptor using the same primary/secondary powers.
This next example is stating that both Corruptor and Defender are using blasts which lower the enemies resistance, such as is often the case of such powers found in the Sonic Blast set that both AT's utilize.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
Next we are going to calculate the average damage when the enemy is suffering from a -15% Resistance Buff for the Corruptor, and a -20% Resistance Buff for the Defender to simulate the differences between the Defenders higher buffing values. We will be using the values from the last chart and multiplying them by 1.15 and 1.20 respectively as this best represents how hitting an enemy after you've debuffed their resistance values will effect the expected damage of both AT's.
100-50% HP; Corruptor: 171.71; Defender: 178.68 49% HP; Corruptor: 176.00; Defender: 178.68 40% HP; Corruptor: 214.63; Defender: 178.68 30% HP; Corruptor: 257.57; Defender: 178.68 20% HP; Corruptor: 300.48; Defender: 178.68 10% HP; Corruptor: 343.41; Defender: 178.68 |
The other major concern then is Fulcrum Shift. This is pretty much straight up copy+Paste from here on~
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
Now we are going to calculate Corruptor vs Defender while giving a 20% DamBuff to Corruptor, and a 25% DamBuff to Defender. Make a note that this ISN'T Fulcrum Shift, but rather Siphon Power.
100-50% HP; Corruptor: 164.31; Defender: 165.15 49% HP; Corruptor: 168.42; Defender: 165.15 40% HP; Corruptor: 205.39; Defender: 165.15 30% HP; Corruptor: 246.47; Defender: 165.15 20% HP; Corruptor: 287.54; Defender: 165.15 10% HP; Corruptor: 328.62; Defender: 165.15 Next we are going to calculate Fulcrum Shift against a single enemy. This is to determine the damage values each of the AT's can expect when trying to do something like solo a Boss or even an Arch Villain. Corruptors will gain a 60% Damage Buff, while Defenders will gain a 75% Damage Buff. 100-50%; Corruptor: 194.31; Defender: 197.65 49% HP; Corruptor: 199.17; Defender: 197.65 40% HP; Corruptor: 242.89; Defender: 197.65 30% HP; Corruptor: 291.47; Defender: 197.65 20% HP; Corruptor: 340.04; Defender: 197.65 10% HP; Corruptor: 388.62; Defender: 197.65 Now we are going to Calculate Fulcrum Shift against THREE enemies. This is to determine the average performance that can be expected when soloing on Normal Difficulty. When Fulcrum Shift hits three targets it grants a 120% DamBuff to the Corruptor, and a 150% DamBuff to the Defender 100-50%; Corruptor: 239.31; Defender: 246.40 49% HP; Corruptor: 245.30; Defender: 246.40 40% HP; Corruptor: 299.14; Defender: 246.40 30% HP; Corruptor: 358.97; Defender: 246.40 20% HP; Corruptor: 418.79; Defender: 246.40 10% Hp; Corruptor: 478.62; Defender: 246.40 To Finish off Fulcrum Shift, we're going to look at the DamBuff values when it is affecting ten targets, the maximum of which it is capable of affecting. Corruptors will gain a 240% DamBuff, and Defenders will gain a 300% DamBuff.... Except, now they've run into a bit of a snag. Unfortunately for Defenders, the limitation of total DamBuff they can have is 400%. With Fulcrum Shift increasing their damage by 300%, adding in their base 100% damage is going to put them at their Damage Cap. Their Damage Enhancements no longer matter, and neither does any benefit they might have been getting from Vigilance. If the Defender wasn't restricted by any Damage Cap it could have been doing: 65 * (1 + 0.9908 + 0.3 + 3.25) = 360.152 Damage However, because of this cap, he's restricted too: 65 * (4) = 260 Damage. That's about 100 Damage less than what the Defender could have potentially done if not for the damage cap, which if significant. On the other hand, a teaming Defender can take solace in the fact that the highly optimized soloist Defender isn't doing any more damage than they are. The Corruptor, on the other hand, is still sitting pretty under his 500% DamBuff limit. In fact, he's only at 439.08%, and he can still increase his damage by another 60.92% before reaches his limit. Powers such as Build Up, Aim, Power Siphon, and Assault are still perfectly viable for him, where as they would be somewhat wasted on a Defender when utilizing a fully saturated Fulcrum Shift. Because of the limitations placed on the Defender, he is not going to have nearly the same edge that he could have had. HP 100-50; Corruptor: 329.31; Defender: 260 HP 49%; Corruptor: 337.54; Defender: 260 HP 40%; Corruptor: 411.64; Defender: 260 HP 30%; Corruptor: 493.97; Defender: 260 HP 20%; Corruptor: 576.29; Defender: 260 HP 10%; Corruptor: 658.62; Defender: 260 There's still ONE thing left we should do, and that is determine a Fully Saturated Fulcrum Shift Against Enemies Who Have their Resistances Debuffed From the Sonic Blast Pool. Again, assume a -15% DamBuff for the Corruptors' enemy, and a -20% DamBuff for the Defenders' enemy. HP 100-50; Corruptor: 378.71; Defender: 312 HP 49%; Corruptor: 388.17; Defender: 312 HP 40%; Corruptor: 473.39; Defender: 312 HP 30%; Corruptor: 568.07; Defender: 312 HP 20%; Corruptor: 662.73; Defender: 312 HP 10%; Corruptor: 757.41; Defender: 312 As per usual, Sonic Debuffs favor defender a bit more than they do Corruptor. If you began stacking the -Res from using, say, more than a single attack, Defender would continue to go up in damage. Let's assume both have stack their -Res powers by 4 times, and are using a fully saturated Fulcrum Shift. This means that the Corruptors enemy is suffering from a -60% DamBuff, and the Defenders' enemy is suffering a -80% DamBuff. HP 100-50; Corruptor: 526.90; Defender: 468 HP 49%; Corruptor: 540.50; Defender: 468 HP 40%; Corruptor: 658.62; Defender: 468 HP 30%; Corruptor: 790.35; Defender: 468 HP 20%; Corruptor: 922.06; Defender: 468 HP 10%; Corruptor: 1053.80; Defender: 468 |
Throwing in Blaster makes things a bit trickier. Ultimately you would need to compare different attack chains, modified by the different powers available to each AT. Without modification though, a power that has a base damage of 100, and is doing 75 for a Corruptor and 65 for a Defender will do 112.5 for a Blaster. A Blaster should be doing more damage than both of them until you start throwing in things like Fulcrum Shift, at which point I expect both the Defender and Corruptor to eclipse the performance possible of a Blaster, even when factoring in Defiance.
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Of course that applies just as well to attacks hitting at all. By your metric all attacks should also be assumed as hitting at the minimum amount forced by the streakbreaker code, not the actual average you will generally see in play.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
A string of good luck can lift the middle finger at probability. A string of bad luck can do the same. You can guess that it will average out over time, but just as often as not; it won't. Averaging is all well and good, but I generally err on the low-side of the variable.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Low side of the variable. Not minimum.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Of course that applies just as well to attacks hitting at all. By your metric all attacks should also be assumed as hitting at the minimum amount forced by the streakbreaker code, not the actual average you will generally see in play.
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Basically: Where you see a 25% damage increase I expect a 15-18% damage bonus. Especially when you get a percentage increase based on a percentage per percentage below a percentage.
Scourge is more or less useless against minions (the greater part of the foes you're going to face) since you're already going to 3 shot them, 1/3rd of their hit points in the first shot, 1/3rd in the second, 1/3rd in the third. Scourge and you'll hit them for 2/3s of their life when they've got only 1/3 left. Waste.
Often against Lieutenants it becomes mostly useless because the higher percentages don't kick in 'til about 1/4 of their total HP is left, whih you can probably knock off with a single target moderate damage attack.
Ultimately Scourge is handy on Bosses, useful on EBs, Great to have against AVs, and Fantastic against Monsters and GMs... but that's about it, for me.
So yes. I look at your wondrous damage curves and err on the low side of the average. Being an insurance agent taught me to do that since you have to plan for the worst and hope for the best when it comes to averages for things like life expectancies and chances of negative familial traits hitting children and grandchildren and cousins.
-Rachel-
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This is true for any damage buff. Unless you save your weakest attacks for last, under no circumstances is this something that only applies to Scourge.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Scourge and you'll hit them for 2/3s of their life when they've got only 1/3 left. Waste.
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Scourge is wildly useful if you have a "rain" power, since those are, almost by definition, composed of a ton of tiny little attacks.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This is very true, I have trained myself to use weaker attacks in order to finish off weaker enemies, mostly from playing corrs and utilizing scourge to defeat mobs with the least overkill possible. |
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
This is true for any damage buff. Unless you save your weakest attacks for last, under no circumstances is this something that only applies to Scourge.
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This is even more important pre-SOs and pre-stam (pre-19), where you don't want to spend extra effort on an enemy that didn't warrant the endurance expenditure. I translated this onto my other characters especially while leveling.
Edit: Also scourge scales very well when you start fighting things at a much higher con then normal, where even LTs take some effort to kill and dont get wiped from just random AoEs. And certain bosses that can take ages to kill. (like Cim bosses)
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
Overall, I agree that "average damage" is much overused as a mechanic when people talk about the "best" damage dealers. IMO the right way to think about Scourge, and procs in general, when dealing with low to moderate HP enemies is to throw the numbers out and think about it like this:
"When your attack hits an enemy that is close to death, there is a chance the enemy will die even if the current attack does not fully deplete its health bar."
We can go back and forth about exact DPS and the like but what it boils down to really, in most situations, is how many seconds it takes to bring down each target. One way to increase those seconds is for them to die faster. It doesn't matter if you hit the enemy for 10 points of damage or 400 if the amount of HP remaining means it takes exactly one follow up attack to down them, and that is what Scourge does.
Looking at Scourge as an "average" of damage pretty much only matters with boss level and AV enemies and contests like Rikti pylon soloing.
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Of course, it should be considered that DPS is intended to be a measure of exactly those number of seconds. It just happens that average DPS is a convenient, fairly portable way to describe that.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
We can go back and forth about exact DPS and the like but what it boils down to really, in most situations, is how many seconds it takes to bring down each target.
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Taking the average isn't useful just because of procs or crits or other explicitly random effects - we have attacks that deal different amounts of damage and recharge at different time intervals. Even if we ran around always firing a perfectly paced attack chain (which I'm pretty sure no one can do) with no random factors, randomness in when a given foe first falls into the chain could cause them to suffer different instantaneous rates of damage.
Combat in CoH is complicated enough due to large numbers of variables to make discussing it with accurate models impractical for people with normal attention spans (and, commonly, appetite for math). Averages are a simple, portable way to express that complexity that's within reach of most people's attention and math skill/willingness. The key is knowing when it can and can't be applied, and whether any quick fudge factors can be applied when it can't. That's been what a fair bit of this discussion has been about, along with some hyperbolic commentary.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Oh, I definitely agree, Guy. But Scourge is, by far, the most blatant abuser of the issue. You don't hit Build-up when a target is low enough on HP to one-shot, but you do Scourge them. |
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
This is true for any damage buff. Unless you save your weakest attacks for last, under no circumstances is this something that only applies to Scourge.
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But Build Up (Aim, Fulcrum shift, Any other damage bonus) can effectively be used on a target from 100% HP to 0%. Scourge has a CHANCE to finish killing off a mob that you're already pretty much done killing. In the great "Solo Debate" of Defenders versus Corruptors the static 30% damage boost is far better than the Average 25% damage boost which only clicks in when enemies are already almost dead.
25% overall damage boost which is -actually- a 100% damage boost proc which requires the target to be near-dead before it hits, compared to a 30% constant damage boost. No contest for which leads to better soloability.
When finding out who does more damage, overall, I err on the low side of the utility of scourge and call it a 15-18% damage buff. But that's just me.
-Rachel-
*Edit* For those intent on sniping at my post because I err on the low side of the variable damage bonus and it's utility, please Look at This Page. Frequencies and Averages are a good rule of thumb, but are by no means a definitive measure of what the outcome will actually be.
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Sometimes, when a powerful attack leaves an enemy with just a tiny sliver of HP, and my next attack misses or something, I pop all my reds and yellows and hit him with the most powerful attack I have. That'll teach him!|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
You don't hit Build-up when a target is low enough on HP to one-shot, but you do Scourge them.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
25% overall damage boost which is -actually- a 100% damage boost proc which requires the target to be near-dead before it hits, compared to a 30% constant damage boost. No contest for which leads to better soloability.
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Just speaking from personal experience, I've found the suggestion that an enemy has to be "almost dead" for Scourge to work to be an exaggeration. Even at 30% HP (barely over 2/3 dead), Scourge has a 50% chance to trigger, which is very good statistically: it's not more likely that it will fail than work at that point. I've had successful Scourge snipes when the enemy was practically at 50%, and I was quite amused when it happened.
Seeing chances for double damage start coming in at around the halfway mark, and knowing that with each landed hit the chances become more and more likely, I can't honestly tell someone that the benefits of Scourge only apply when you don't need it.
Try not to think of minions when you think of Scourge. Defenders can solo minions just fine even without a 30% damage boost. Think of bosses and you can see Scourge being a lot more useful.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
25% overall damage boost which is -actually- a 100% damage boost proc which requires the target to be near-dead before it hits, compared to a 30% constant damage boost. No contest for which leads to better soloability.
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Scourge does most of the time. I'm close to absolutely sure about that. A Defender's +30% Damage is not really +30% HP dished out, it's +30% damage bonus on top of whatever you've slotted and your other damage bonuses, leveling off as you approach ED. If you're Kinetics and hit yourself with Fulcrum Shift at full bore your damage bonus for being a Defender is zero. Even sets with no native +Damage lose some of the +30% due to slotting as they approach lvl 50.
Scourge is also not really a 25% chance for +100% damage. It's a chance to do double damage using the full strength of all of your +Damage and all of the -Resistance stacked on the enemy while sidestepping the damage or ED cap. This chance approaches a 100% to proc as the enemy's HP drops. It essentially turns the Corruptor's attacks into a "saving throw versus death" as the enemy's HP gets lower. I am actually very glad there are no enemies in the game with a Scourge ability because it would make life very scary, especially if it were present in AoEs. Can you imagine being in a situation where the rules were "Even if the attack didn't actually kill you, because it got close to killing you, it will anyway?" That is basically what Scourge does, and why it is a darn good ability. And Scourge in a rain power is sort of terrifying.
That's not to say there aren't some Defenders who outdamage some Corruptors. Fire/Kin Controllers outdamage a lot of both, but Controllers as whole aren't necessarily a "high damage" archetype. Incidentally Fire/Kin is extremely powerful for some of the reasons Scourge is (because a lot of the damage comes from a "doubled" source and sidesteps normal caps).
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
I've had successful Scourge snipes when the enemy was practically at 50%, and I was quite amused when it happened.
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The odds of that happening are actually pretty good over time. Assuming folks are correct that there is a 2.5% chance to proc per percent of HP under 50, an AoE with a 16 target cap fired into a group all at exactly 50% HP (or is it 49%?) has a 0.985^16 = 78% chance that no one takes double damage, which means the odds you crack at least one are about 22%. It should happen about once every 4-5 attacks if you were always fighting enemies at exactly that amount of HP.
These odds tip extremely quickly too. If everyone's at 40% HP, you're looking at 0.75^16 = 1% chance to miss all procs, or a 99% chance at least enemy one takes double damage.
I have to repeat my question, because I don't seem to see it answered in detail. How do we figure that Scourge, defined as 2.5% chance for double damage for every 1% an enemy is below 50% health, total out to 30% extra damage. This I do not see flowing from definition to conclusion. I can't even spot the methodology behind it.
Could someone trace through the steps of getting that average so I can piece it together?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It's all in this post.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Could someone trace through the steps of getting that average so I can piece it together?
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Scourge grants a 2.5% chance to trigger for every 1% of an enemy's HP below 50%. That means at 40% HP there will be a 2.5% * 10 = 25% chance to Scourge, and at 10% HP or lower it's a 100% chance.
If you were to split the graph of enemy HP vs double damage using this formula, you'd have it a flat 100% double damage for the first 10% HP, sloping down linearly to 0% double damage between 10% HP and 50% HP and remaining a flat 0% double damage for the remaining 50% HP. It'd look something like this:  Calculating the area of the 2x Damage region, it accounts for exactly 30% of all possible damage dealt, meaning Scourge adds an average of 30% to damage. |
EDIT: I don't know where you are in the scale of calculus knowledge, so I'll try to break it down a little more. The white area in that graph represents the occasions a corruptor's attacks will do single damage, and the blue represents the occasions a corruptor's attacks will do double damage.
Imagine every pixel on that graph is an attack. Look at 30% health now, just as an example. There are just as many blue pixels on that line as white pixels. If there were one hundred pixels going up that line, it would represent fifty attacks that hit for double damage, and fifty that hit for regular damage. Adding those together, you get one hundred occasions which will do 150 occasions' worth of damage. If every enemy were always at 30% health, scourge would account for a 50% damage increase.
By taking the integral (or, said another way, calculating the area) of the entire graph, we can compare how many occasions will give you double damage and how many will give you regular damage. This is subject to the standard probability clause: These averages are notoriously foiled in the short run, but over the lifetime of a character, they will be extremely reliable.
EDIT AGAIN: Another thing that I don't think is being stressed well enough is that the scourge bonus is strictly greater than the defender damage bonus. Scourge will amplify the damage done by enhancments, -res debuffs, and +damage buffs. Defender Vigilance is only adding to the base damage of the attack and any -res debuffs applied to the enemy. Vigilance does not amplify damage done by enhancements, and in fact can be nullified by enough damage buffs.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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That right there is what I was missing. Double damage area vs. total area. That would explain it. I don't think you need to integrate over a shape this simple (it's basically a linear function and a constant function) and would be simpler to calculate them as a triangle and a rectangle. More specifically, a triangle that's (40x100)/2 = 2000 and a rectangle that's 10*100 = 1000, or 3000 all told. The whole field is 100*100 = 10 000, so the percentage of the blue is 3000/10 000 = 30/100, or 30%|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
The white area in that graph represents the occasions a corruptor's attacks will do single damage, and the blue represents the occasions a corruptor's attacks will do double damage.
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OK, I can buy that. I was getting as far as calculating the area, but lacked anything to compare it to. Now I know.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I agree, and that's how I would calculate that integral. I guess I was using the word to represent the function of "finding the area under a curve," not actually writing out the equation of that curve, then integrating that curve.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't think you need to integrate over a shape this simple (it's basically a linear function and a constant function) and would be simpler to calculate them as a triangle and a rectangle.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
I agree. To my surprise, I was unable to peg the two integrals by eye, as the linear function's parameters are non-obvious (I'm thinking -5/2 and 100-something, but I'd need to write it down). Definitely not necessary to integrate.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I agree, and that's how I would calculate that integral. I guess I was using the word to represent the function of "finding the area under a curve," not actually writing out the equation of that curve, then integrating that curve.
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At the same time, however, this gives me good methodology to calculate other things of this nature, more specifically Super Reflexes passives, which work in a similar fashion.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Isn't math fun?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
At the same time, however, this gives me good methodology to calculate other things of this nature, more specifically Super Reflexes passives, which work in a similar fashion.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Yup. I wouldn't have take up applied mathematics if it weren't |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Isn't math fun?
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It's one of the few things in life that manages to always be consistently fun no matter what new side of it I learn about.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
By taking the integral (or, said another way, calculating the area) of the entire graph, we can compare how many occasions will give you double damage and how many will give you regular damage.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't think you need to integrate over a shape this simple (it's basically a linear function and a constant function) and would be simpler to calculate them as a triangle and a rectangle.
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That reminds me of a logical puzzle like that, where several shapes make up a triangle, then when you rearrange them, they make up the same triangle but with one square chunk removed from it. As it shouldn't be possible that the sum of the areas of all shapes should change when they're rearranged, the question was why this happened. The answer was that one thing which looked like a straight line really wasn't, and was in fact an angle.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
I just counted the squares.
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The reason I'm saying this is because while it looks like the line is passing through the square's edges on the graph, I'm not sure that's actually true, especially since the graph is squashed and out of scale.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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ooohhhhh