Bots/Traps of Bots/Dark?


JC_THREE

 

Posted

Hey all, I'm planning to try my first swing at a Mastermind (starting in Praetoria) and was wondering wich powerset combination would work better with bots. My playstyle can vary to the playstyle of either set, so I would like to know the pros and cons of each. Thanks


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_THREE View Post
Hey all, I'm planning to try my first swing at a Mastermind (starting in Praetoria) and was wondering wich powerset combination would work better with bots. My playstyle can vary to the playstyle of either set, so I would like to know the pros and cons of each. Thanks
Both sets are very powerful. Traps is more in your face; Dark is more ranged. Both are very flexible in how they can handle a variety of groups.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Same question as OP. Posted here instead of a new thread to not clog things up.

That said, I'm 34 Bots/Dark. The bots are kind of squishy and I don't feel like I'm doing GOOD damage, I feel the damage is just mediocre. I have considered multiple times rerolling as Bots/Traps. I never solo, just TFs/teams.

Looking for some input for/against rerolling, etc. Just seeking general advice.

Also, I have softcap to S/L on a few other toons and it is quite powerful. Doing that for a bots/traps with FFG and running in Bodyguard mode..is it as survivable as it sounds? What about throwing Provoke in the mix?

Also, is FFG the only trap that follows you? KBing stuff out of my -RES Tar Patch is getting old...

Best,
MT


Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."

 

Posted

I say Traps.. Its fire and forget..

Where as Dark has toggles that can get knocked off for various reasons..

With Traps your getting defense cap through your powers which directly affect you, EG FFG .. Where as with Dark your getting defense cap from Darkest Night and other debuffs. If your anchor runs away so does your defense cap. Some will say that is what the hold is for.. But again if you want to rely on a hold to keep a Anchor in place by all mean.. And make sure it sticks every time you use it. Further it can be hard to hold an AV.

Dark is good I just personally feel Traps is better. As I always boast I can solo without my pets with traps, because of Trip Mine. There is not much you can do solo without your pets with dark.

But look there is no DOOOOM if you go dark.. I just think Traps has a bit of an edge and it certainly fits in with Robot Thematically.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Templar View Post
Also, I have softcap to S/L on a few other toons and it is quite powerful. Doing that for a bots/traps with FFG and running in Bodyguard mode..is it as survivable as it sounds? What about throwing Provoke in the mix?
Restricting yourself to softcapping S/L on a bots/traps is a waste. You've got a strong enough defense base that you can easily softcap everything: your choice of S/L/E/N/F/C or range/melee/AoE -- or both. Add in bodyguard mode, provoke, and the resistance shield of your choice, and you're tougher than a stone tank running Granite.

Quote:
Also, is FFG the only trap that follows you? KBing stuff out of my -RES Tar Patch is getting old...
Seeker Drones will also follow you around, but if you're using them properly, that's not something you'll experience.

Something that helps with the knockback issue is Electrifying Fences from the Mu Mastery pool: you get an AoE immobilize with -KB.


 

Posted

I've found taking a def shield works better against most enemies than a resistance shield. I tested in out with my 2nd build and it just seems to work better 99% of the time. Plus with musculature slotted everything is DEAD before they can hit me anyway.

I do miss the dmg and anti-knockback from electrifying fences though, and my anti mezz procs were nice too.


The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272

Clowning Around- arc id: 408447

Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie V View Post
Restricting yourself to softcapping S/L on a bots/traps is a waste. You've got a strong enough defense base that you can easily softcap everything: your choice of S/L/E/N/F/C or range/melee/AoE -- or both. Add in bodyguard mode, provoke, and the resistance shield of your choice, and you're tougher than a stone tank running Granite.
Well I wasn't intentionally trying to limit myself. It's just that S/L is the first/easiest to go for. I just wasn't aware exact what the limits were/what was possible.

MT


Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKent View Post
I've found taking a def shield works better against most enemies than a resistance shield. I tested in out with my 2nd build and it just seems to work better 99% of the time. Plus with musculature slotted everything is DEAD before they can hit me anyway.

I do miss the dmg and anti-knockback from electrifying fences though, and my anti mezz procs were nice too.
So you run either Chill or Mace Mastery? None of the MM PPP/APP seem to be particularly ... good. Maybe it's just me, but I always thought actually attacking myself as an MM was a waste of time. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Edit: Was this Bots/traps or bots/dark?

MT


Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."

 

Posted

MT in your instance of Bots Dark I would go with Mace Mastery Shield. Since it offers defense against Smash and Lethal which are the most common type of damage types.

Now with the debuffs and bonuses from Invention sets it might be over kill, I don't know your build. You might consider creating a new thread and posting your intended 50 build or a build with lvl 35 IOs as some are starting to do.

Nonetheless between Darkest Night and the Shield your S and L defense might be in the 60s or 70s which again is over kill. But as I commented your relying in Darkest Night which has a big hit debuff number attached to it to be around to effect the other mobs near your anchor. If your anchor runs off so does your defense cap. Your pretty much screwed. This is sort of hedging the bets and hoping when that happens that your dealing with mobs that deal smash and lethal damage and that your MM shield value is high enough to block some hits until you can reanchor darkest night or try to place a hold on your anchor from running off again when he returns.

The game plan with Dark is you try to get either the 7 damage types defenses to mid 20s or the 3 positional type defense ( ranged, melee, aoe ) in the mid 20s. Then with darkest night slot that up enough that it will add its hit debuff value which is pretty much equal to defense number wise to your total defense numbers to obtain the soft cap of 45%..

So if you have Ranged defense of 25% and you slot Darkest Night to a - HIT value of 25% your total Range Defense is 50%.. 5% over the defense cap. So your pretty good as far as any and all range attacks go. But if your melee defense is only 5% then your melee defense is 30%. Not bad really, better then nothing. But some hits will come in.

Of course the damage type defenses come into play.. The game automatically picks the highest number in your favor. So though your melee is 30% defense. If your energy defense was 25% added to darkest night -hit 25% and you got hit with an energy melee attack. You would have 50% defenses vs that energy attack.

I have a Dark Electric Defender that rides the wave this way.. Sometimes its great.. And sometimes the anchor runs off or dies and I instantly get slammed with a bunch of hits. Sometimes I can pull off a heal and reanchor other times I face plant.

With Traps my FFG has to die before I have this issue. And FFG is really one tough beast.. Further the recharge is so fast for FFG that it does not matter. You can kill my FFG all you want I think my recharge on it is 10 seconds. Nothing really ever kills it that fast but some big AV attack. So I am pretty much summoning it before it dies or if I feel its been out too long and it should be expiring soon.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Templar View Post
So you run either Chill or Mace Mastery? None of the MM PPP/APP seem to be particularly ... good. Maybe it's just me, but I always thought actually attacking myself as an MM was a waste of time. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Edit: Was this Bots/traps or bots/dark?

MT
Traps.


The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272

Clowning Around- arc id: 408447

Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
The game plan with Dark is you try to get either the 7 damage types defenses to mid 20s or the 3 positional type defense ( ranged, melee, aoe ) in the mid 20s. Then with darkest night slot that up enough that it will add its hit debuff value which is pretty much equal to defense number wise to your total defense numbers to obtain the soft cap of 45%..
Don't forget Fearsome Stare. It has the same to-hit debuff as Darkest Night and it doesn't rely on an anchor. I find I don't even bother with Darkest Night unless there's a boss or higher once I have Fearsome Stare up every spawn.

As far as Dark vs Traps, Bots/Traps is better in my opinion. Your Protector Bots will give you about 10% defense to all positions and your Force Field Generator adds another 15%... that leaves you only 20% away from the softcap and your non-Protector bots only 10% away. Add in Maneuvers and a 5% defense aura and you have SR Scrapper bots and very high defense yourself, no matter what you are fighting. Dark's to-hit debuff is good but AVs will shrug most of it off while real softcapped defense (or close to it) still works. And most importantly, FFG gives you hold and stun protection so you are less likely to get mezzed and have to stand there and watch your bots get trashed (not that they're easy to kill even without your help if they're in FFG range).


Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

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