Mez defense mechanics
By
Biospark,
Posted on: 2010-10-07 08:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
That will work on all range mezzes except Mind and illusion mezzes. Those don't have a positional tag so you will need psi def.
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Originally Posted by PJFry
If you are playing a squishy, or an AT without mez protection, how does defense against mezzes work?
I have a mind/ff troller in mid twenties, and working on a build that would get soft capped defense to ranged attacks. Would this cover ranged mezzes? Was hoping that I would be able to hover over the fray doing the troller thing, and still have a great chance for ranged mezzes to completely miss me most of the time. Thanks in advance! |
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Yes, Ranged defense will help against many types of mezzes. There are others which are not "Ranged" but saying that you plan on hovering out of melee means that the list of mezzes not protected by Range defense just got smaller. That leaves non-positional ones to deal with only. But another question for you. Did you know that Dispersion Bubble gives you some mezz protection ? Its about the best mezz protection any squishie can get before epics without a teammate buffing your protection.
So Mind/FF ? Pretty darn good at dealing with mezzing critters. Not much better that is not a melee character or perma-dom.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
Does anybody know why that is? I keep reading that over and over, but it makes no sense. I cannot imagine why an Illusionists Blind would not be tagged as a ranged mez, or why Mass Hypnosis wouldn't be tagged as AoE. Is this just an oversight on the Dev's part that hasn't been rectified in all these years, or is there a reason for it?
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Originally Posted by Rieze
That will work on all range mezzes except Mind and illusion mezzes. Those don't have a positional tag so you will need psi def.
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Jazra -- Level 50 Illusion/Radiation Controller
Swayvill -- Level 50 Plant/Psi Dominator
Droshalla -- Level 50 Warshade
Latro Dectus -- Level 50 Fortunata
Starseeds -- Level 50 Elec/Storm controller
Quote:
Shh.. The mind doms and tollers and the ill trollers will find you and make you do really really bad things to yourself.
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Originally Posted by Jazra
Does anybody know why that is? I keep reading that over and over, but it makes no sense. I cannot imagine why an Illusionists Blind would not be tagged as a ranged mez, or why Mass Hypnosis wouldn't be tagged as AoE. Is this just an oversight on the Dev's part that hasn't been rectified in all these years, or is there a reason for it?
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"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Quote:
Assuming it's thematic at all, it's likely based in the notion that you can't dodge something aimed at your mind. The positional defense types are meant to represent your ability to physically dodge projectiles, etc.|
Originally Posted by Jazra
Does anybody know why that is? I keep reading that over and over, but it makes no sense. I cannot imagine why an Illusionists Blind would not be tagged as a ranged mez, or why Mass Hypnosis wouldn't be tagged as AoE. Is this just an oversight on the Dev's part that hasn't been rectified in all these years, or is there a reason for it?
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Of course, the entire Psi Blast powerset lies outside this thematic explanation, since all of its attacks are, in fact, typed as both Ranged and Psi for defense purposes. This is probably a situation where balance and theme were in conflict - creating an entire blast damage set that bypassed positional defense probably was harder to accept than various mezzes. Note that the "no dodging mind attacks" theme isn't just for Psi mezzes. Fearsome Stare from Dark Miasma also lacks a positional typing, being tagged only Negative Energy.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Based on the original power sets and that Rikti and Carnies used to be a very large portion of high level content, I believe this was an intentional caked in "catch all" weakness. Of the original power sets, the only set that had defense against Rikti's mezzes was Stone Armor Tankers. Even then, Minerals can't be used with Granite Armor. There wasn't supposed to be an easy way around it. We were supposed to be susceptible to certain groups to maintain their difficulty.|
Originally Posted by Jazra
Does anybody know why that is? I keep reading that over and over, but it makes no sense. I cannot imagine why an Illusionists Blind would not be tagged as a ranged mez, or why Mass Hypnosis wouldn't be tagged as AoE. Is this just an oversight on the Dev's part that hasn't been rectified in all these years, or is there a reason for it?
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There is the already mentioned thematic reason. After all, how does an /SR Scrapper justify dodging an attack on his mind?
As far as that all is concerned, I'm glad it's the way it is and that it hasn't changed.
However, when I can Dominate a Rikti Drone (who have high ranged and melee defense) much more easily than I can hit it with Power Blast, I realize that it's unintended side effects don't always make sense.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
Dispersion Bubble grants you outright protection from three of the more egregious mezzes, Hold, Stun, and Immobilize. Fear and Confuse are very rare. So that just leaves Sleeps that you need to be concerned with, which break when you are hit (or healed).
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Originally Posted by PJFry
If you are playing a squishy, or an AT without mez protection, how does defense against mezzes work?
I have a mind/ff troller in mid twenties, and working on a build that would get soft capped defense to ranged attacks. Would this cover ranged mezzes? Was hoping that I would be able to hover over the fray doing the troller thing, and still have a great chance for ranged mezzes to completely miss me most of the time. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Thanks guys. I'm happy with those answers. Now I'll take my Illusion Controller and go slap some people silly.
Hmm.. perhaps I should roll up a Mind dom one of these days.
Jazra -- Level 50 Illusion/Radiation Controller
Swayvill -- Level 50 Plant/Psi Dominator
Droshalla -- Level 50 Warshade
Latro Dectus -- Level 50 Fortunata
Starseeds -- Level 50 Elec/Storm controller
I always assumed it was just Mind Control's, and a few Illusion Control powers, "secondary effect."
Gravity: -Run speed
Ice: -Run/-Recharge
Fire: +Damage
Electric: -Endurance
Earth: -Defense
Mind: No positional tag
Plant didn't get a secondary effect so they just doubled the damage in the AoE Immob (although, frankly, that could simply be a bug that resulted from them reading the Containment numbers from the Controller version of the immobs when originally creating Plant for Dominators, then doubling it again when it ported back to Controllers. I've never been told one way or another but the fact that it does exactly twice as much damage may be a clue).
Note that Psi Blast on Defenders and Psi Assault on Dominators have secondary effects too. Both of them get an extra 20ft on most ranged attacks (averaging 100ft compared to most sets, which average 40-80ft) and do -Recharge. The Blaster version of Psi Blast does not have extra range but does have the -Recharge. Mind Control does not get either of these advantages, having seemingly swapped it out for the lack of a positional tag as it's special "thing."
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I dunno, psi blast mostly looks like shaped blasts of mental energy. Look dodgeable to me.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Of course, the entire Psi Blast powerset lies outside this thematic explanation, since all of its attacks are, in fact, typed as both Ranged and Psi for defense purposes. This is probably a situation where balance and theme were in conflict - creating an entire blast damage set that bypassed positional defense probably was harder to accept than various mezzes.
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Culex's resistance guide
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because they are 'mind' attacks, they did not see it as thematic for SR to dodge them, because jumping to the left would not alter someones chances of reading your mind
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Originally Posted by Jazra
Does anybody know why that is? I keep reading that over and over, but it makes no sense. I cannot imagine why an Illusionists Blind would not be tagged as a ranged mez, or why Mass Hypnosis wouldn't be tagged as AoE. Is this just an oversight on the Dev's part that hasn't been rectified in all these years, or is there a reason for it?
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You can make a mind/ff/stone to have softcapped range, s/l and psi def.
If you are playing a squishy, or an AT without mez protection, how does defense against mezzes work?
I have a mind/ff troller in mid twenties, and working on a build that would get soft capped defense to ranged attacks. Would this cover ranged mezzes? Was hoping that I would be able to hover over the fray doing the troller thing, and still have a great chance for ranged mezzes to completely miss me most of the time.
Thanks in advance!