City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Which Primary Power Set Is The Most Survivable?

Airhammer

By Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-10-06 16:45 in Tankers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard View Post
Well, perhaps I could make it a bit more impressive?

I have almost no IO's or sets yet. This was on a build that only has SO's and generic IO's.

I will agree that your stand as an invuln is quite impressive. I had an Inv/DB tank at one point, just didn't like the feel of it.
No disrespect intended -- I'm the poster who called Stone "the king of 'I'm still standing'" above. I was just showing that some sets, properly built and played, can reach the durability a high level Stone tanker already started at.

If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
The only place where people face +4 mobs are in Mothership raids(energy damage intensive) and Farms(Which I have no troubles with).
I don't think they do. Why on earth would anyone farm at +4? The purpose of farming is killing rapidly in bulk for rewards, something that's difficult to do at +4 and if you CAN do it at +4 you can do it FASTER at +0. And the rewards are no greater in terms of drops and it's questionable whether influence from defeats is any better, since it's slower.

Now some people do fight at +4 to power level someone else, but we already have a term for that. It's power-leveling, not "farming."

Plenty of people play missions at +4 for the challenge or for bragging rights, which is just dandy...but if they claim they're "farming" they're doing it suboptimally. Farming is by definition not about increasing challenge.

If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome View Post
I've had similar experiences, built right Invuln really is that good.
Thts kinda mute considering any right built tank can be really good or better then good....thas the point I think should be made here most of all.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
Thanks I do try. Heaven forbid I greatly favour one primary over another for survivability and be told that I suck because of it.
I can see that. Thanks for confirming the type of poster you are. Makes it easier for me to maintain my ignore list. And for the record, the only one using the word 'suck' around here is you. No one in this thread said "you suck" or anything even remotely close to that. But hey, hypersensitivity seems to be the 'in' thing around here lately..

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
A tanker who is the last man standing has successfully prevented a total team/raid wipe.
Fixed it for you.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
I found it spectacularly rubbish and had 1/1000th of the survivability of WP.
We get it. *YOU* don't like electric armor. That's fine. My elec/elec tank is currently 48 and tons of fun.

Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
I can see that. Thanks for confirming the type of poster you are. Makes it easier for me to maintain my ignore list. And for the record, the only one using the word 'suck' around here is you. No one in this thread said "you suck" or anything even remotely close to that. But hey, hypersensitivity seems to be the 'in' thing around here lately..
How's the passive aggressiveness working for you? I said the powerset sucks for survivability, I was told I suck. Anyway, if you get so upset about me saying a powerset sucks, then ignore me and be done with it

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
How's the passive aggressiveness working for you? I said the powerset sucks for survivability, I was told I suck. Anyway, if you get so upset about me saying a powerset sucks, then ignore me and be done with it
You said the powerset sucks for survivability. Many people - myself included - have no difficulty staying a live playing Electric Armor tankers in a variety of tanker-stressing environments. Either you were lying, and do not believe that Electric Armor actually sucks for survivability, or you are incapable of playing an Electric Armor tanker as well as the many people who are able to survive perfectly well with it. Or, I suppose, you have a bizarrely inflated belief of how survivable a tanker needs to be to not be rubbish - if you consider Granite to be the minimum baseline, I suppose Electric Armor does suck for survivability. But by any rational standard, Electric Armor is fine for survivability.

TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
How's the passive aggressiveness working for you?
You might want to look up that term and attempt to get a better understanding of what it actually means.

Quote:
I said the powerset sucks for survivability, I was told I suck.
Again, the only one throwing around the word "sucks" here is you. Not a single person in this thread, other than yourself, has used that phrase about you.

Quote:
Anyway, if you get so upset about me saying a powerset sucks
Apparently, you failed to notice that I have no dog in this hunt. I am far from upset about anything in this thread. I could not care less whether you think a particular powerset is underperforming or not. It is, in fact, completely irrelevant to me. I simply have neither the patience nor the desire to deal with posters who are incapable of carrying on a rational adult-level discussion with resorting to rude, insulting, and aggressive behavior to try and make their point. That's all there is to it...

Quote:
then ignore me and be done with it

 

Posted

Of the tanker primaries I have experance with Willpower, Invulnerability and Shield Defense.

Inv is, IMO, the best at taking damage and mitigating it short of a Stone, but you don't get any movement penalties. Dull Pain alone is worth the price of entry and Unstoppable is three minutes of 'You Can't Touch Me'. Followed by ten seconds of "Oh Nuts I'm About To Get Creamed".

SD is an offensive powerhouse. It's defenses are soild but with the attack buff from Agianst All Odds plus Shield Charge, a PBAoE attack, you'll outdamage most other tanks. Hell My SD/SS Tanker can add Rage on top of that. AAO + Rage + SC + Footstomp = Dead Minions and Dead or Hurt Everything Else.

WP is a jack of all trades set. Decent resistance, defense with an HP boosting power and good regeneration. It suffers from a lackluster taunt aura, but a good player can mitigate that. It's only real problem is it's can't take hits like other sets can, avoid like other sets can and while it has regen it has no self heal.

My own input. Thanks for reading.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

No sacrifices necessary.
Impressive. I usually try to do Super Strength because it's my favorite melee set (especially after power customization). Mace isn't my bag. I like your approach to the PBAoE attacks (hadn't realized you could slot PBAoE sets in Shatter, either). I can't see the build as you intended though, because I'm using the patched version of Mids Designer. I assume you took Fitness, and that the two powers with three blank slots each are Health and Stamina.

Personally -- and at the risk of beating a point to death -- if I wanted to eat 5 billion influence almost purely for defensive bonuses, I'd roll something with a better taunt aura. Then again, I'm probably biased; my Tanker builds are always a little on the Scrapper-ish side, because I like to solo, and I figure that I'll usually have support for situations that require the best possible defenses. YMMV.

It'd be interesting to see an Issue-19 version of your build.

Quote:
What's this? Oh, having 1000 MORE HIT POINTS? Haha! I'lll just pretend that doesn't matter. MUST BE A USER ERROR TO CARE ABOUT THAT! tee hee
Unless I'm missing something, High Pain Tolerance is only worth about 600 HP. You may end up with a greater HP advantage than that over a given Elec build, but only because you took different set bonuses than he did.

Quote:
Blah bah and wrong. Show me the [Electric Armor] build that has this kind of defence. Really, show me. Even 30% across the board is really really pushing it.
I don't disagree about the build constraints, but an Elec Tanker really doesn't need high defense across the board. Fire/Cold defense is questionable on almost any build; there just aren't enough attacks in the game that are typed purely as Fire/Cold. S/L/N/E are way more important. And as an Elec Tanker, you have capped Energy RES without even trying -- along with very high S/L RES and decent Dark RES. The main thing is to soft-cap your DEF against the most commonly spammed DEF debuffs, which are generally packaged with Lethal attacks. (knives, swords, machine guns, etc.)

Elec also has near immunity against the most dangerous energy-typed attack you're likely to see (endurance drain). It's probably best to max S/L DEF and call it a day.

Quote:
HP regen is more lol, oh better now is it?Truly? At global 90% recharge, ED capped Energize, you get ~899hp/40 seconds from the click heal and 30 hp/sec regen. That's ~53hp/sec. WP tank has 150hp/sec. OH no but but Elec has better regen ! Oh yes it does. In magical maths land where 53 > 150. So over a 40 second period where you get your heal click +regen in Elec, Willpower heals an extra 3880 hp. I suppose it's good that HP doesn't matter according to you so we can ignore your startling ignorance.
The WP Tanker (by your build) has a total of ~150 hp/sec, using several powers and assuming 10 foes in melee range. Comparing that total with the benefits of one power isn't quite fair.

That said, the Elec Tanker does have ~30% fewer hitpoints, and Energize's +regen effect isn't all that much stronger than Fast Healing's (~175% versus ~140%). So even if we knock RttC down to one foe in melee range, WP pretty clearly wins in the regeneration contest. There is something to be said for burst heals too, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,81
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), Aegis-Psi/Status(7), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(9)
Level 4: Earth's Embrace -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- Erad-%Dam(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-%Dam(13)
Level 8: Rooted -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mrcl-Heal(15), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(17), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(19), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(19), Mocking-Taunt(21), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(21), Mocking-Rchg(23)
Level 12: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(23), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), RgnTis-Regen+(25), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(27), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(27)
Level 16: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Crystal Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Tough -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A)
Level 22: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), LkGmblr-Def(34)
Level 26: Minerals -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 28: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(37), P'Shift-End%(37), P'Shift-EndMod(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(39)
Level 30: Provoke -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(40), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(40), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(40), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(42)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(42), DefBuff-I(43), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(43), S'dpty-Def(43)
Level 35: Teleport -- Range-I(A)
Level 38: Brimstone Armor -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Hold%(45), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Darkest Night -- DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(46), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(48), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(48), DarkWD-Slow%(48), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Summon Widow -- S'bndAl-Build%(A), S'bndAl-Acc/Rchg(50), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Recall Friend -- Range-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run



one of the most survivable thing! i havent found enough monster to take me down.....
so resistent only GW and his ******* hold is still a threat . bad thing is that he s only usefull for STF and LRSF

Isulkian

 

Posted

Without reading more than about a page and a half of this lovely lovely thread... Here's my response

My first (and currently only) level 50 tanker is an Electric Armor one. When people ask me what their first tanker should be, I usually recommend willpower because it tends to be forgiving. I've also seen some very impressive end-game willpower tankers... but then again.. of the 6 Ice Armor tankers I've seen, 5 of them were impressive. I've seen Invul tankers take +4 x8 groups of council..
It comes down to your chosen playstyle and how much inf you want to spend on it.

Here's my build. No idea what level the IOs are but as you can see, they aren't doing a great deal. Usually by the time I die, most of the team is running back from the hospital for their second time. I'm not entirely sure what I've got on Surge right now.. but it's SOs only also. The idea here was to make it as cheap as possible. All but one of the SOs are level 50, on a level 50 tanker. That means they're grey.
The resistance numbers and Ice Patch along with the 2 taunts, the heal and the ability to drain all endurance from multiple enemies with just a few casts of Power Sink though? Priceless.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Electric Armor Ice Melee Tanker: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor

  • (A) Resist Damage
  • (3) Resist Damage
  • (3) Endurance Reduction
  • (9) Endurance Reduction
  • (15) Resist Damage
Level 1: Frozen Fists
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (39) Accuracy
  • (50) Damage Increase
Level 2: Conductive Shield
  • (A) Resist Damage
  • (5) Resist Damage
  • (5) Resist Damage
  • (11) Endurance Reduction
  • (15) Endurance Reduction
Level 4: Lightning Field
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (23) Accuracy
  • (23) Endurance Reduction
  • (25) Endurance Modification
  • (25) Endurance Modification
Level 6: Static Shield
  • (A) Resist Damage
  • (7) Resist Damage
  • (7) Resist Damage
  • (19) Endurance Reduction
  • (19) Endurance Reduction
Level 8: Grounded
  • (A) Resist Damage
  • (9) Resist Damage
  • (36) Resist Damage
Level 10: Taunt
  • (A) Empty
  • (11) Empty
  • (33) Empty
Level 12: Energize
  • (A) Healing
  • (13) Healing
  • (13) Healing
  • (46) Recharge Reduction
  • (48) Recharge Reduction
  • (48) Recharge Reduction
Level 14: Swift
  • (A) Run Speed
Level 16: Health
  • (A) Healing
  • (17) Healing
  • (17) Healing
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes
  • (A) Run Speed
Level 20: Stamina
  • (A) Endurance Modification
  • (21) Endurance Modification
  • (21) Endurance Modification
Level 22: Ice Patch
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
  • (48) Recharge Reduction
Level 24: Boxing
  • (A) Empty
Level 26: Tough
  • (A) Resist Damage
  • (27) Resist Damage
  • (27) Resist Damage
  • (31) Endurance Reduction
  • (31) Endurance Reduction
Level 28: Power Sink
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
  • (29) Recharge Reduction
  • (29) Endurance Modification
  • (40) Endurance Modification
  • (40) Endurance Reduction
  • (40) Endurance Reduction
Level 30: Provoke
  • (A) Empty
  • (31) Empty
  • (43) Trimuphant Insult - Chance to Disorient
Level 32: Power Surge
  • (A) Empty
  • (33) Empty
  • (33) Empty
  • (34) Empty
  • (34) Empty
  • (34) Empty
Level 35: Ice Sword
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (36) Accuracy
  • (36) Damage Increase
Level 38: Recall Friend
  • (A) Empty
Level 41: Focused Accuracy
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (42) Endurance Reduction
  • (42) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance
  • (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
  • (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
  • (43) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge
Level 44: Physical Perfection
  • (A) Endurance Modification
  • (45) Healing
  • (45) Endurance Modification
  • (45) Healing
  • (46) Endurance Modification
  • (46) Healing
Level 47: Teleport Foe
  • (A) Empty
Level 49: Frost
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (50) Accuracy
  • (50) Damage Increase
------------
Level 1: Brawl
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
  • (A) Celerity - RunSpeed
  • (37) Celerity - Endurance
  • (37) Empty
  • (37) Quickfoot - Endurance
  • (39) Quickfoot - RunSpeed
  • (39) Quickfoot - Endurance/RunSpeed
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
  • 2% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 2% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 2% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 2% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 2% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 2% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 2% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 2% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 5% FlySpeed
  • 14.06 HP (0.75%) HitPoints
  • 5% JumpHeight
  • 5% JumpSpeed
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
  • 5% RunSpeed




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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNum View Post
Between the Loyalists and Resistance, I'd be tempted to support Praetorian Hamidon.
One side uses mind police and will "disappear" you and the other uses poison gas and bombs on civilians. Hamidon? He'll just have a tree eat you. Much simpler. If we're all going to be oppressed and/or killed by someone, it might as well be the walking trees. At least they don't speak in annoying code or doublespeak. They just devour you.