Which Primary Power Set Is The Most Survivable?
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Impressive. But some other builds can reach that level.|
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
Hell, Granite Armor is what allowed Molly Magma to survive ALONE against the mass nictus ambush at the top of the mountain in the first ITF mission when the rest of the team wiped. Molly was the only melee character due to the scrapper dropping early in the mission, and there were many more Black Dwarf mobs than Molly could keep aggroed.
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Ironclad, my Civil-War-themed Invulnerability Tanker, did exactly that. Surrounded by negative-energy-using Black Dwarfs (remember, Inv does not get especially good resistances to negative) and defense-debuffing Romans, he made his stand while the res of the team rezzed, wiped again, and hospitaled. When they returned, he was on his third or fourth recharging of Dull Pain and the team's brute sent a tell: "HOW are you STILL ALIVE???"
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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I've had similar experiences, built right Invuln really is that good.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Impressive. But some other builds can reach that level.
Ironclad, my Civil-War-themed Invulnerability Tanker, did exactly that. Surrounded by negative-energy-using Black Dwarfs (remember, Inv does not get especially good resistances to negative) and defense-debuffing Romans, he made his stand while the res of the team rezzed, wiped again, and hospitaled. When they returned, he was on his third or fourth recharging of Dull Pain and the team's brute sent a tell: "HOW are you STILL ALIVE???" |
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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I found it spectacularly rubbish and had 1/1000th of the survivability of WP.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
I'll have to pitch my case for Elec. Endurance is never an issue, Self Heal with +Regen lets you tank Hamidon on the LGTF quite effectively, and you get great offensive stuff in a damage aura and a +rech passive. All resistance sets are up there for the most survivable, but in my mind Elec gives you the most offense with that. It also looks cool.
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Sounds like operator error.
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
I found it spectacularly rubbish and had 1/1000th of the survivability of WP.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Well, perhaps I could make it a bit more impressive?|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Impressive. But some other builds can reach that level.
Ironclad, my Civil-War-themed Invulnerability Tanker, did exactly that. Surrounded by negative-energy-using Black Dwarfs (remember, Inv does not get especially good resistances to negative) and defense-debuffing Romans, he made his stand while the res of the team rezzed, wiped again, and hospitaled. When they returned, he was on his third or fourth recharging of Dull Pain and the team's brute sent a tell: "HOW are you STILL ALIVE???" |
I have almost no IO's or sets yet. This was on a build that only has SO's and generic IO's.
I will agree that your stand as an invuln is quite impressive. I had an Inv/DB tank at one point, just didn't like the feel of it.
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Snide comment aside, the resistances are poor, there's no defence inherent to the set, it is easily subject to a variety of cascading failures/debuffs, and the heal is... okay but not great. Base HP is pathetic.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Sounds like operator error.
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Willpower has 150 hp/sec regen, some DDR, soft capped to all damage types, massive HP.
Sounds like rudeness erorr.
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Resistances across the board better than WP, and most are better than Dark Armor's. I don't see how that could be defined as poor anywhere.|
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
the resistances are poor
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
there's no defence inherent to the set, it is easily subject to a variety of cascading failures/debuffs, and the heal is... okay but not great.
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Base HP is pathetic.
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Willpower has 150 hp/sec regen, some DDR, soft capped to all damage types, massive HP.
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Sounds like rudeness erorr.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Nice trolling attempt, pity you can't be honest with yourself. Anyone that takes your 'advice' is setting up for failure.
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After messing around endlessly with various WP Tanker builds and ultimately discarding them, I have to nitpick here a bit: You can soft-cap to all damage types on a WP Tanker (or at least all damage types that matter), but you have to make serious sacrifices to get there.|
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Willpower has 150 hp/sec regen, some DDR, soft capped to all damage types, massive HP. |
Juggling max S/L/E/N DEF and +HP bonuses and offensive priorities just isn't worthwhile, IMO. Who wants to spend several billion influence to end up with a character who hits about as hard as he did with SOs? If you do, then more power to you, but if you're going to go all out to make a pure meat shield, then wouldn't it make more sense to select a build with a stronger taunt aura?
At the end of the day, that taunt aura issue is always what makes me discard my WP Tanker ideas. WP is awesome on a Scrapper or a Brute. It's great on a Tanker too, in terms of ease-of-leveling and ease-of-play -- but it doesn't lend itself very well to a clear high-end plan. IO bonuses pull you in too many different directions.
Suffice to say that all of the things you describe aren't exactly handed to Willpower, which doesn't mean that Electric Armor is better or even superior; the two sets are at least competitive with each other at the high end, though.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Resistances are poor because they are inherently the only thing that keeps them standing. They don't have a layered system like WP. So, they are poor.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Resistances across the board better than WP, and most are better than Dark Armor's. I don't see how that could be defined as poor anywhere.
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| Nevermind the fact that it can sap its enemies dry, rendering them incapable attack. Also forget about the inherent recharge, the immunity to endurance drain, and the capability to have energize permanent. |
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| Because +HP is the only thing that makes a tank, which is why almost half the armor sets have no means to obtain this. |
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| Not with IOs you don't have the softcap. And if that's how you're going to compare, Elec can have the softcap to the most common types, or easily have 30% defense across the board, along with better resists and comparable (if not more) HP/sec than willpower, more recovery, and a more effective taunt aura. I call that a better tank. |
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| Hey, you're the one who started with the hyperbole and misinformed attitude. Don't blame me for jumping on it. Don't blame the set for your failures as a player. |
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Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803|
Originally Posted by Obitus
After messing around endlessly with various WP Tanker builds and ultimately discarding them, I have to nitpick here a bit: You can soft-cap to all damage types on a WP Tanker (or at least all damage types that matter), but you have to make serious sacrifices to get there.
Juggling max S/L/E/N DEF and +HP bonuses and offensive priorities just isn't worthwhile, IMO. Who wants to spend several billion influence to end up with a character who hits about as hard as he did with SOs? If you do, then more power to you, but if you're going to go all out to make a pure meat shield, then wouldn't it make more sense to select a build with a stronger taunt aura? At the end of the day, that taunt aura issue is always what makes me discard my WP Tanker ideas. WP is awesome on a Scrapper or a Brute. It's great on a Tanker too, in terms of ease-of-leveling and ease-of-play -- but it doesn't lend itself very well to a clear high-end plan. IO bonuses pull you in too many different directions. Suffice to say that all of the things you describe aren't exactly handed to Willpower, which doesn't mean that Electric Armor is better or even superior; the two sets are at least competitive with each other at the high end, though. |
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
No sacrifices necessary.
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How are those end drains working out for ya? I'd like to see you tank the LGTF as well as my elec. I'm sure you'll do fine as you have 1000 times my survivability, apparently.
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
I found it spectacularly rubbish and had 1/1000th of the survivability of WP.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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Hay, dat's a nice build. |
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! No sacrifices necessary. |
Expensive, but nice.
Curious: Why not pull a slot from taunt and weave (the last bonus in both powers is unimpressive) and take bash and clobber to six slots?
Bash needs more acc in my book (bruising wants it to hit) and clobber, if you can tolerate the stun, hits like a barrel of brass monkeys.
Just curious! That guy as presented would be tough as nails.
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The only thing ridiculous in this thread so far is your attitude. If you're deliberately trying to come across as obnoxious and rude as possible, congrats, you've succeeded...
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
I think you can just back out quietly now that you've shown you haven't even played the sets. Mostly likely either considering how ridiculous your claims are.
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Considering my HP bar won't move on a LGTF, sure...
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
How are those end drains working out for ya? I'd like to see you tank the LGTF as well as my elec. I'm sure you'll do fine as you have 1000 times my survivability, apparently.
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Thanks I do try. Heaven forbid I greatly favour one primary over another for survivability and be told that I suck because of it.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
The only thing ridiculous in this thread so far is your attitude. If you're deliberately trying to come across as obnoxious and rude as possible, congrats, you've succeeded...
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See that's the difference. We both have no survivability problems, but I do more damage and have an easier time keeping aggro.
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Thanks I do try. Heaven forbid I greatly favour one primary over another for survivability and be told that I suck because of it.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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If you want to correct me in game I am quite happy to be shown |
Originally Posted by Auroxis
See that's the difference. We both have no survivability problems, but I do more damage and have an easier time keeping aggro.
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LGTF is super easy, I'd like to see something like tanking a +4 ITF as an example...
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People don't do +4 ITF's. There's no reason to do that. The only place where people face +4 mobs are in Mothership raids(energy damage intensive) and Farms(Which I have no troubles with).|
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
If you want to correct me in game I am quite happy to be shown
LGTF is super easy, I'd like to see something like tanking a +4 ITF as an example... |
Not dying isn't the only thing a Tanker should be capable of.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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I thought this thread was about 'most survivable'. I'm not denying that other classes have their own strengths that will let them shine, but as I said at the beginning: Granite first, Inv/WP tied second. Elec is tough because it's a tank, and all tanks are tough, but it will melt in a heartbeat under a +4 ITF.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
People don't do +4 ITF's. There's no reason to do that. The only place where people face +4 mobs are in Mothership raids(energy damage intensive) and Farms(Which I have no troubles with).
Not dying isn't the only thing a Tanker should be doing. |
I guess we are just arguing different points but that's what I thought this topic was about.
Awesome, thanks for all the replies. I've decided to use Invul because I can't stand the slow movement speed with Granite.
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Yes they do. I actually did a +4 MoITF on my DA tanker.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
People don't do +4 ITF's.
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Granted, it was an accident but we said "What the hell, it seems easy enough" after the first mission.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Not dying isn't the only thing a Tanker should be capable of.
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A tanker who is the last man standing has failed.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Partially my point. Also, Killing stuff helps you hold aggro.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Incorrect. Staying alive is optional. Holding aggro is not.
A tanker who is the last man standing has failed. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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I just like to point out that some tanker primaries can hold aggro through defeat.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Partially my point. Also, Killing stuff helps you hold aggro.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
To note, even without Granite the Stone Armor set is very durable once you get into IO builds. It's also one of the few powersets out there that can go WELL beyond the softcap to Psionics in defense with only moderate attention paid to IO slotting...but only outside of Granite. This makes Stone a very good set in the endgame, even outside of Granite, where almost no enemy groups deal in Fire or Cold damage and many of them toss out psi attacks like so much wrapping paper at a birthday party.
Stone/Kin tanks have a HUGE benefit in that Focused Burst can slot Apocalypse sets. Granted there are a few other secondaries with ranged attacks as well...but that gets you to within .4% of the softcap with just three generic defense IO's in Minerals and the full Apocalypse set in Focused Burst. You could slot a full set of Miracle into rooted and be Psicapped, or slot Numina's full set into rooted and pick up Physical Perfection from Energy Mastery and slot Miracle there...or slot Laser Beam Eyes from Energy Mastery with a full set of Devastation for 48.4% defense to Psi without bothering with the full Miracle set anywhere...
Now, granted you'd be running a minimum of three toggles against Rikti if you aren't in Granite, but you're also not recharging as slowly and you're doing more damage as well as still being the king of survivability. And if you build for better in-granite recharge and damage while still building for non-granite survivability, so much the better for your team because you'll be keeping up better between fights and helping those fights end faster.
Yes, Granite is the top of the line for 'I still live!' No, Stone Armor is not impotent outside of Granite. Most Stoners just want to parade around in their DE-NPC glory once they've reached the ability to use it. Hell, Granite Armor is what allowed Molly Magma to survive ALONE against the mass nictus ambush at the top of the mountain in the first ITF mission when the rest of the team wiped. Molly was the only melee character due to the scrapper dropping early in the mission, and there were many more Black Dwarf mobs than Molly could keep aggroed.