Horribly generalize Widows for me.

Would anyone have any thoughts as to what 'normal' ATs the widow VEATs might be reasonably compared to? I know they're their own thing and all that, but it's the sort of comparison I like to draw. Like I think of crabs as "an AoE blaster who trades in much offense for survivability and buffs/-res", and banes as "stalkers with HELL YES WAR MACES ROCK ON". But I don't know what to make of the Widows.

It seems like Night Widow might be comparable to a Claws/SR... scrapper? stalker? I have no idea. And Fortunata, that's right out, I have no idea. How effective are they compared to their, for lack of a better term, "models"?

Thanks!

(just to make it even clearer, I'm aware that i'm asking for a horrible over-generalization. That's what I'm going for, really! )

I would think Forts would compare favorably with Mind Controllers of some kind...if those controllers had soft capped defenses.....with the Teamwork toggles being roughly analagous to a team buffing secondary and other abilities to confuse, hold and immobilize that would seem correct...

And Night Widows...sure a Claws/SR with team buffs and critical hits would be a gross generalization but thats what you wanted....


--Frog

Here is what I think:

Blood Widow with Follow Up and Slash/Eviscerate resembles Claw/SR a lot (minus Shockwave).

Night Widow is like Claw Stalker but my Claw stalker usually opens with BU Shockwave later.

Fortunata is pretty unique. She has quite a few controls but what makes her so deadly is her defense and mez protection, which resembles a Dominator in Domination (minus the defense part). Fort's damage is not as high as Dom with melee attacks but she has very good team buffs.

My Fort is currently more like a ranged Domi, with worse ranged damage but more AOE. Her control is worse overall (especially AOE control, I've only got two long recharging PBAOEs, one of which is also a crashless nuke) but she trades it for much better defenses and buffs for the team.

My alternate Widow build is a Claws/SR scrapper/stalker (she floats somewhere between the two in terms of frontloaded damage vs sustained damage).

Widows are fun to play with their attacks.

I build and play my fort as a psi blaster with softcap and team buff (teamwork + leadership pool)

i intend to roll another fort to play with holds and knockback attacks

Anything with leadership but they have leadership as their primary.

Fortunatas are Mind/Psi Dominators that traded in Domination for softcapped defenses. (Unfortunately they don't get Drain Psyche.)

I created my Night Widow as an evil version of my Claws/Inv Scrapper. There are already some major differences, I've switched to Dart Burst instead of Spin as my major AoE attack because it's advantageous to dart in and out of melee. She certainly doesn't have the defense, although I'm expecting with Foresight and Mind Link it will get a lot better. I already rely mostly on Invincibility with my Scrapper, not the resistances, so I'm already used to that.

I definately feel it's more like a Claws/SR Stalker, though, with less damage from Assassination, and more buffs for the team. I'm definately planning on playing her with a team, although I've had to take her Rogue for that. (my SG on that server isn't really interested in villains...)

Fortunatas I can't comment on, although I'm guessing they're somewhat similar to Psi Defenders or Corruptors with some melee attacks. I would kind of guess that unless you intended to go with a conceptual thing, you'd probably want to respec out of the melee and just go with ranged.

Forts are jacks of all trades.

They deal decent enough damage that you're not feeling like you're chipping away at granite (except for stuff heavily resistant to psi...)

They have good defences.

A decent enough level of control (although limited in the AOE department)

And excellent team buffs with leadership, etc.

General agreement that a Night Widow is a claw scrapper/stalker (stalker only for the hide. Not much else) and I think of my Fort as a dominator, through and through. In fact, after levelling her up I came to the realization that she is in fact a much better dominator than my dominator is. Much more actual control and defense out the wazoo. (My dominator is plant -- lots of soft control, not so much direct mezzing)

I play my Fort with none of the Widow attacks, but if you wish to you can go that route as well for extra non-psi damage to round her out.

I didn't take any of the PPPs with her as I felt she was already quite complete as she was.

Fortunatas are a mix of Mind control trollers, and psychic blast blasters.

With quite a bit of buffs...that are unique to us, but uhm....so maybe a Troller-Blaster-Defender-Tank.


I say tank because, the way mine is slotted, He's able to swoop in and do alot of damage, very fast, but his defenses are so high that nothing really hits him much.

Widows have the staples to be a decent stalker-meets-scrapper thing, which ever path they take. Night Widows knock it up a notch with Elude, Mental Training, and a faster recharging Mind Link. In my experience, they play more like Stalkers than Scrappers, because your critical depend on being hidden, whereas a Scrapper's criticals are caked in as a chance for every attack. I realize Stalkers have that too (even more so on large teams), but if you're used to being surgical with your criticals, as a Stalker often is, you won't have to adjust to do it as a Widow.

Fortunatas add a fair amount of controls from Psi Blast/Mind Control. As it's been said, that's kind of like adding powers from a Mind/Psi/Psi dominator. Their scramble thoughts is mag 4 (!!!) which means you can disorient a boss very easily.

I played mine with dual-builds and almost always ended up playing the Fort. This was largely frankenslotting/common IOs though. With a push for softcap, I could see the Night Widow being a scary melee toon.

Compared to Wolf Spiders, I would say the Widow is better for hard controls, and if you want to play as the sneaky melee toon, the Widow is better period. Crabs are more resilient and Banes can be built a little more team friendly (like you have higher team +defense unless the widow has perma mind link and you can deal a fair amount of -res).

Dominators have a VERY close damage modifier to SoAs... they have 1.05 melee and .95 ranged, vs the SoA's 1.00 and 1.00. So if you've played a Dominator, the'll give a good impression of how much damage you can do.

I'd say a Bane spider or Claws/Energy brute is probably a closer comparison than a Claws/SR. You get stealth included, but it's not vital.

Widows lack Assassinate, Placate, and random criticals, but do good base damage and have quick attack chains that consist of a handful of powers.