...isn't that the exact same question you asked here? At least I would think most people look for what they think makes a good SG....
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Kind of, but it seems my other thread where its me pandering for SG suggestions has gotten completely off topic, so I thought that opening up a thread where people can talk about what they look for but also what they dont like about SG's or observances on SG's on Virtue as a whole would be a good place to start instead.
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Originally Posted by Kai
...isn't that the exact same question you asked here? At least I would think most people look for what they think makes a good SG....
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5. Non-Constructive posts are prohibited.
Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of non-constructive posts. As a rule, non-constructive posting is not permitted:
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| Spam - this is considered to be repetitive posting of the same topic or text or nonsensical posts that have no substance and are often designed to annoy other forum users. |
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| Cross posting - As a courtesy to others before beginning a new thread, please look to see if an active thread on that topic has already been established using the Search feature. If so, place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forum needlessly and many good ideas may be lost. Use the Search link to keep discussions about one topic to one thread only. |
1st: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=238585
2nd: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=238905
3rd: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=240160
You need to pick a thread and stick with it... if you are avoiding each of those threads because they have exploded into drama or nonconstructive comments, then perhaps you need to evaluate the way you are presenting the topic of discussion.
If you keep on casting the same line into the same pond you should not be surprised when you continue to catch the same fish.
I love you but you can be a real rules-lawyer baby 
But no seriously I was just trying to get people to move their discussion from the other thread to this one since its gotten my "looking for SG suggestions" thread totally off topic. I dont really see other peoples responses and being all flamey as being my fault but rather I wanted to give them a space to share their opinions about not just what they look for in SG's but problems they've run into concerning SG's from the outside as well as in. If that's to "samey" then whatever /end caring.
And besides that last link is a link to this thread smartars! The other thread was a 5 bullet points question about good qualities in SG's and the other was me asking for help finding a good one. Since that one has gotten so off topic I asked that it be closed so I could start this.
I'm having one of those days.
Lots of friendly people, open opinions subject to change so nobody is acting like a brick wall. Personally the thing I don't like about SGs is many turn into clique supporters. Favoritism grows into being a large factor in swaying one's decision in what is accepted and what isn't or who can do what and when or why.
Obviously there's the concept, my main reason for joining a certain S/VG is usually the concept - if I like what I read the gears get spinning and I'll either succumb to Altitis or go "Hey [character name] would be a pretty good fit for that group!".
Activity's obviously a good thing too, if there's no one around and nothing's ever happening (e.g. events) with the group it's pretty hard to get integrated with them.
Like Underworld? Then take a look at! http://moonid.net/account/recruitmen.../monstersgame/
And don't forget to join the fight for our City! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ard,134.0.html
Obviously...
- Daily Donuts
- Weekly Gummi Bear Fights
- Small, Fur-Bearing Animals.
Failing that..
- Good People
- Good Stories
- Good Fun
Where do we go from here?
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QFT!|
Originally Posted by Stryph
Personally the thing I don't like about SGs is many turn into clique supporters. Favoritism grows into being a large factor in swaying one's decision in what is accepted and what isn't or who can do what and when or why.
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This is my number 1 pet peeve in any SG/VG/guild/legion, whether RP or not. It's a big problem when the leader and/or many of the officers are members of a clique. Cliques discourage new members and piss off people like me. =q
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While I dislike the idea of a supergroup BEING a clique, I think a successful role-playing group will exhibit some clique-like behaviors. Any group must be selective on membership, and RP groups all the more. Leading a story-driven group means keeping a certain balance, helping to maintain the zone of suspension of disbelief for the members of the group. To that end, a role-playing group's leader tends to choose people that a) match the concept of the group, b) will be an asset to the ongoing story, and c) will enjoy and get something out of group interplay. So while it may mean no l33t d00dz, it also might mean no god-mode players (even if they happen to be sensational role-players), or even other limitations. Such is the nature of a themed, story-driven supergroup. The ongoing problem are the cries of elitism that spring up from those who don't fit, or those who join but are later found to be a bad fit, mostly made by people who don't seem to get that we don't think we're better than they are, just different.|
Originally Posted by Pravalen
QFT!
This is my number 1 pet peeve in any SG/VG/guild/legion, whether RP or not. It's a big problem when the leader and/or many of the officers are members of a clique. Cliques discourage new members and piss off people like me. =q |
I think that's something we've lost as a society. In all our politically correct tolerance and acceptance of everyone else, we've forgotten that sometimes people just get along better with people most like them, and that not every group with a code of conduct and a list of conditions of acceptance is Inherently Evil.
(Sorry, Pravalen. This post wasn't directed at you, but yours kicked off the thought process in my head, which is why it ended up being quoted.)
Where do we go from here?
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Not only is this all very true, the fact that someone else is saying it suggests to me that maybe what this community needs isn't another thread about what people want in an SG, but a conversation about what SGs want from new members. That seems to me to be something far more beneficial to more people. However, I'm not sure how many SGs would be willing to have a frank and open discussion of it, given said cries of elitism.
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Originally Posted by Hero Prime
The ongoing problem are the cries of elitism that spring up from those who don't fit, or those who join but are later found to be a bad fit, mostly made by people who don't seem to get that we don't think we're better than they are, just different.
I think that's something we've lost as a society. In all our politically correct tolerance and acceptance of everyone else, we've forgotten that sometimes people just get along better with people most like them, and that not every group with a code of conduct and a list of conditions of acceptance is Inherently Evil. |
I was kind of hoping that current guildies and those looking would also post what they have found to be wrong with SG's in their experience.
I totally agree that not everyone can get along, hell I dont get along with most people as I tend to expect to much from them and refuse to molly coddle ego's and have a tendancy to say what I think and truly feel at the moment instead of curbing my tongue.
A major problem I've found with SG's once I join is a lack of delivering on promises made during the interview / recruitment process. To much ******** in the higher ranks when it comes to favoritism and cliquishness. Last but not least simple apathy toward doing or running anything.
These are the reasons first and foremost why I dont join guilds, that is if I even get to the interview process in the first place. I do alot of research on my intended SG's. I read their forums thuroughly, mission statement ask members about the guild, not officers, I team and rp with the people who are in the guild to see how well they Jive with me and lastly I give it time. I sit back and wait before joining because if they can keep my interest and show they are putting effort into the guild then its a better chance this is the natural state of affairs, not just two weeks when the guild leader decided to show up.
over 6 years i have joined and quit at least 20 sgs/vgs
I found the ones i stay with the longest have this:
1. a good sense of humor- i can pull off antics and i get laughed at more than frowned at
2 a good policy on booting- if not on for 40 days i expect to get booted however if i have 23 days off line and someone else has 56 days offline and they dont get booted before me i tend to get mad
3 good leadership- ego doesnt get in the way the leader sets up things to do
4 i dont get asked to bring in x amount of prestige or deposit x amount in storage
5 good teammates- i have fun and team regularly and chat dont put me on ignore or i ignore them
6 a good base with things i need like workshop and tps
On Bad sgs i find following
1 leader doesnt come on but once every 20 days
2 team mates are rarely on
3 ridicolous rules like sg costume requirements
4 you are forced to join tfs
5 you have to share influence - its my money i chose where to give it
Best Sgs ( not in any rank) imho in 6 years
Justice girls/academy/Divas/She-devils
Amazon and godess of paragon
New godesses
Hero Dawn
American Legion ( althjough i ruined my stay with them by being off 90 days)
X-patriots
Virtue Honor Guard
Grey Enterprises
all these hit upon my six preferences and i will not mention which sgs didnt
as Ood Sigma said....We will sing to you, Doctor. The universe will sing you to your sleep. This song is ending. But the story never ends.
I think what's happening here is that people are expecting things of a SG that just can't happen. Now before you run up and beat on me about how activity and such is possible, hear me out.
I've looked over all these "what do you look for in a SG" and "SG looking for new members!" threads, and one thing ALWAYS pops up: Activity. I want a SG that's active! We want members who are active! Obviously this won't work for everyone, as SGs are commonly filled with people from different timezones (I know the one I'm in has western, eastern, central, european, etc etc) so some people will find it less "active" than others.
I guess the moral of my story is that you can't just expect SGs to be active just as a force. Step back a second and think: What are SGs made out of? People. People with different schedules, different playtimes, etc. You can't just walk in, say "I want a SG that is active!" and walk out expecting it to be so. If you join a SG, YOU are part of what makes it active. Want more people to log in? Start coming up with scheduled playtimes, RP events, etc, but make sure to PLAN THEM IN ADVANCE and talk to other people in the group so that you can find a time that can accomodate as many people as possible.
Complaining that your RP events or playtimes don't get anyone to join because it happens to be 9PM for you but 12AM for some, and 5 in the morning for others in the group? That's a lack of communication, not a lack of group activity or a sign that the group is "bad."
Make a concious effort to improve the group you're in; don't expect the group to revolve around what you want.
Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny
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However you are not accounting for 2 just as common problems;|
Originally Posted by Pinny
I think what's happening here is that people are expecting things of a SG that just can't happen. Now before you run up and beat on me about how activity and such is possible, hear me out.
I've looked over all these "what do you look for in a SG" and "SG looking for new members!" threads, and one thing ALWAYS pops up: Activity. I want a SG that's active! We want members who are active! Obviously this won't work for everyone, as SGs are commonly filled with people from different timezones (I know the one I'm in has western, eastern, central, european, etc etc) so some people will find it less "active" than others. I guess the moral of my story is that you can't just expect SGs to be active just as a force. Step back a second and think: What are SGs made out of? People. People with different schedules, different playtimes, etc. You can't just walk in, say "I want a SG that is active!" and walk out expecting it to be so. If you join a SG, YOU are part of what makes it active. Want more people to log in? Start coming up with scheduled playtimes, RP events, etc, but make sure to PLAN THEM IN ADVANCE and talk to other people in the group so that you can find a time that can accomodate as many people as possible. Complaining that your RP events or playtimes don't get anyone to join because it happens to be 9PM for you but 12AM for some, and 5 in the morning for others in the group? That's a lack of communication, not a lack of group activity or a sign that the group is "bad." Make a concious effort to improve the group you're in; don't expect the group to revolve around what you want. |
1: Alt padding
2: Antisocial behavior such as shyness
You need in a good SG:
1. Support - if someone needs help with something you go and help unless you are on a TF. In similar lines have a home for Alts. In Hero Force we have Alpha, Beta and so on down the line but we never use SG chat everyone is encouraged to use only Coalition and we are one big SG.
2. Acceptance - don't mock Joe Schmoe because he has a funny voice on Vent or because someone plays different.
3. Family or a sense of belonging. If you must kick someone for the SG being full SEND AN EMAIL explain why the kick and say that we would be happy to have you back when you return!
4. You are not hiring prestige mules. If this is your aim then just quit the game now. You will be reviled and hated and rightfully so.
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I agree that alts are always a problem, but I've found if it's limited to 2-3 in a group then it's controllable, but not when someone makes 24 characters and puts all 24 in the exact same SG and tries to level them all up at the same time.|
Originally Posted by Lady_Cyrsei
However you are not accounting for 2 just as common problems;
1: Alt padding 2: Antisocial behavior such as shyness |
As for shyness: I'm also shy. I don't walk up to random people in real life or even on the internet and talk to them, that's just how I am. Heck, it even happens to me in my own group where I'm too nervous to start things. I've always thought of myself more as a follower than a leader, after all. Nothing wrong with it, it's just how they are. Make them feel comfortable, and eventually they'll warm up to the group.
Though to be honest, there is no way to account for every little thing that plagues SGs and activity. I tend to focus on two or three things at a time, so it's not that I'm "not accounting for" it's that I'm not touching upon those issues because I'm sure there are people out there much more knowledgeable about the subjects than I am who are better suited to talking about them.
Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny
What exactly is "alt padding"? Are we talking about an SG's leaders lying and pretending that every character in their SG is a real human being when it isn't? Or are we talking about just having alts in the group? I'm really not seeing the problem with alts, within reason and so long as the SG is honest about how many real human players are involved. I'd say if anything that refusing to allow people to play alts when they want to is going to be a problem for an SG.
"Alt Padding" is, at least how I always perceived it, is where your SG population grows in number not particularly due to popularity but that your 20 some odd members have altitis and put a new alt in the guild every other week. Then when the shiny is off of the new character they stop playing it to go make another only to start the process all over again, and instead of the leader putting a cap on the amount of alts allowed the large roster gives the appearance of larger ranks than really exists.
I also place in this category as ghost members whom have been inactive for as long some times as the guild is old and never get kicked.
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A clique is usually a sign of a close bond between people, which sounds great and can be. The problem is when the SG leader and many of the officers are in one. The clique makes it hard for new members to feel welcomed and 95% of the time, isn't good for the long-term.
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Originally Posted by Hero Prime
While I dislike the idea of a supergroup BEING a clique, I think a successful role-playing group will exhibit some clique-like behaviors. Any group must be selective on membership, and RP groups all the more. Leading a story-driven group means keeping a certain balance, helping to maintain the zone of suspension of disbelief for the members of the group. To that end, a role-playing group's leader tends to choose people that a) match the concept of the group, b) will be an asset to the ongoing story, and c) will enjoy and get something out of group interplay. So while it may mean no l33t d00dz, it also might mean no god-mode players (even if they happen to be sensational role-players), or even other limitations. Such is the nature of a themed, story-driven supergroup. The ongoing problem are the cries of elitism that spring up from those who don't fit, or those who join but are later found to be a bad fit, mostly made by people who don't seem to get that we don't think we're better than they are, just different.
I think that's something we've lost as a society. In all our politically correct tolerance and acceptance of everyone else, we've forgotten that sometimes people just get along better with people most like them, and that not every group with a code of conduct and a list of conditions of acceptance is Inherently Evil. (Sorry, Pravalen. This post wasn't directed at you, but yours kicked off the thought process in my head, which is why it ended up being quoted.) |
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so you suggest the new members should take priority over the veterans who heped support and grow the sg they are a member of? I'm gonna love the fireworks after your response.
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Originally Posted by Pravalen
A clique is usually a sign of a close bond between people, which sounds great and can be. The problem is when the SG leader and many of the officers are in one. The clique makes it hard for new members to feel welcomed and 95% of the time, isn't good for the long-term.
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It's a balancing act, and it's one that's difficult to perform. When we ran The Zenvious Foundation for two years here on Virtue, we walked that trapeze line with a lot of care, and still failed from time to time. Fortunately, most of the members in our group - new and old - were forgiving of our mistakes. The group grew because the leadership (not just the SG leaders - all the officers) saw fit to make sure others got involved. Along with a greater camaraderie with SG members comes a greater responsibility to keep the SG fresh. That means that it's almost as much on the shoulders of those 'veterans who helped support and grow the SG" as it is on the leadership of the group to help make new members welcome, and to integrate those members with the rest of the group.|
Originally Posted by EverStryke
so you suggest the new members should take priority over the veterans who heped support and grow the sg they are a member of? I'm gonna love the fireworks after your response.
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It's really the only way it works, if everyone works together.
Where do we go from here?
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Your deductive skills are amazing! |
Originally Posted by EverStryke
so you suggest the new members should take priority over the veterans who heped support and grow the sg they are a member of?
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Refer to Prime's last post for your answer.
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There's a very noticeable difference between making new members feel welcome and like an addition to the group and completely ignoring them because they aren't important, at least compared to the veterans.|
Originally Posted by EverStryke
so you suggest the new members should take priority over the veterans who heped support and grow the sg they are a member of? I'm gonna love the fireworks after your response.
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If your line of thinking is the latter, then why bother recruiting new members in the first place if you aren't going to acknowledge their presence?
Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny
What bullet points would you rate as being important for an SG, either when you consider joining one, or leading one, and conversely what are your pet peeves concerning the observed state of SG's today on Virtue?
Discuss.