PvP IO and Purple drop
By
Alexander_Drako,
Posted on: 2010-09-26 21:17 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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This is exactly what I said its the first thing I said in the thread the post is still there.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You said all stealth IO's on the market were 100+mil, and then later said "oh no of course they're not."
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| Stealth IOs are currently are in the 100 mil+ range you can regularly obtain PvP IOs and purples for considerably less. |
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Except they aren't.
| Stealth IOs are currently are in the 100 mil+ range |
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Except when they are|
Originally Posted by _Cai_
Except they aren't.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I'm not nearly as insane as you are so here's only 3
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Except when they are
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Originally Posted by _Cai_
Except they aren't.
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That's it; that's where the debate ended. You yourself said the IO's were ALL (see: every single one) in the 100mil+ range. If you're going to say the CRAFTED IO's are the ones you were talking about, you've just split so many hairs that ZZ Top just felt a sharp pain in their chins.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
guess what AF, if you use the market the way it is supposed to be used you wouldn't pay those prices. but again, you won't learn and refuse to be taught. there are more stealth recipes, not io's because you don't drop io's, at any given time then there are purple or PvP recipes. this makes your statement false as you have been shown time and time again. deal with being wrong and just shut up.
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They, being representative of the group, aren't. A couple in the subset that make up the group are, but you didn't say that.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Except when they are
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*eats popcorn, enjoys the dogpile*
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
That's it; that's where the debate ended. You yourself said the IO's were ALL (see: every single one) in the 100mil+ range. If you're going to say the CRAFTED IO's are the ones you were talking about, you've just split so many hairs that ZZ Top just felt a sharp pain in their chins. |
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| They, being representative of the group, aren't. A couple in the subset that make up the group are, but you didn't say that. |
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| Stealth IOs are currently are in the 100 mil+ range you can regularly obtain PvP IOs and purples for considerably less. |
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| guess what AF, if you use the market the way it is supposed to be used you wouldn't pay those prices. but again, you won't learn and refuse to be taught. there are more stealth recipes, not io's because you don't drop io's, at any given time then there are purple or PvP recipes. this makes your statement false as you have been shown time and time again. deal with being wrong and just shut up. |
Oh I get it now, you're comparing outlying subsets of a specific group (certain Stealth IO's out of all the 15-50 teleport stealth recipes/crafted, 15-50 leaping stealth recipes/crafted, 15-50 running stealth recipes/crafted) and making them representative of the group up against cherry picked PVP/Purple IO's.
In that case try this one on for size:
Chevy's are currently in the $100,000+ range you can regularly obtain BMW's and Porches for considerably less.
tell you what then, give us undeniable proof that every stealth recipe or io is harder to obtain then any purple or PvP io or recipe that is of equall demand. the list of purple and PvP recipe/io's you may not use are holds, confuse, immob's, pbaoe's, sleeps and targeted aoe's. infact scratch that, compare lv 50 stealth recipes/io's to purples and lv 50 PvP recipes/io's since purples are only lv 50. in either case, you are completely wrong.
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Originally Posted by _Cai_
Oh I get it now, you're comparing outlying subsets of a specific group (certain Stealth IO's out of all the 15-50 teleport stealth recipes/crafted, 15-50 leaping stealth recipes/crafted, 15-50 running stealth recipes/crafted) and making them representative of the group up against cherry picked PVP/Purple IO's.
In that case try this one on for size: Chevy's are currently in the $100,000+ range you can regularly obtain BMW's and Porches for considerably less. |
Try this its not remotely as hard to get a GM as it is a Mercedes ?
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rofl
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Originally Posted by sharker_quint
tell you what then, give us undeniable proof that every stealth recipe or io is harder to obtain then any purple or pvp io or recipe that is of equall demand. The list of purple and pvp recipe/io's you may not use are holds, confuse, immob's, pbaoe's, sleeps and targeted aoe's. Infact scratch that, compare lv 50 stealth recipes/io's to purples and lv 50 pvp recipes/io's since purples are only lv 50. In either case, you are completely wrong.
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then go ahead and do it... unless you are afraid of admitting you are wrong. compare the lv 50 stealth recipe/io's to purple recipes. that is the only way you can do it. then compare any lv stealth recipe/io to any lv PvP recipe/io and i guarante that you are completely wrong that it is harder to get the stealth io. the only way you can compare is of equal level value. you can not compare a low level stealth recipe/io to purples or high level PvP recipe/io's and say that you are right. it doesn't work that way.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
rofl
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Just as I thought, you got nothin'.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Try this its not remotely as hard to get a GM as it is a Mercedes ?
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Why don't you just demand I stand on my head while singing the national anthem at the same time,After all if I can't do that I must be wrong and afraid to admit it as well.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
then go ahead and do it... unless you are afraid of admitting you are wrong. compare the lv 50 stealth recipe/io's to purple recipes. that is the only way you can do it. then compare any lv stealth recipe/io to any lv PvP recipe/io and i guarante that you are completely wrong that it is harder to get the stealth io. the only way you can compare is of equal level value. you can not compare a low level stealth recipe/io to purples or high level PvP recipe/io's and say that you are right. it doesn't work that way.
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You aren't even reading my posts. You just posted your first argument, the counterpoint proving you're wrong, and then told me that's why you're right. What?|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
1 sentence less than 30 words,
If you compare Recipes to Recipes its true as well. |
Cai is not telling me I'm wrong. Cai is telling you your logic is flawed. Read and comprehend, it's called reading comprehension.
And no, it's not. Show me proof. And don't quote that 3-picture post you made, it doesn't work for this.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Why don't you just demand I stand on my head while singing the national anthem at the same time,After all if I can't do that I must be wrong and afraid to admit it as well.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You aren't even reading my posts. You just posted your first argument, the counterpoint proving you're wrong, and then told me that's why you're right. What?
And no, it's not. Show me proof. And don't quote that 3-picture post you made, it doesn't work for this. I can do that. I actually just tried it and pulled it off. Got really light-headed though. |
Where did I say all ? Show me.
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| Stealth IOs are currently are in the 100 mil+ range you can regularly obtain PvP IOs and purples for considerably less. |
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Where did I say all ? Show me.
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| Stealth IOs are currently are in the 100 mil+ range you can regularly obtain PvP IOs and purples for considerably less. |
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| Certain stealth IOs are currently are in the 100 mil+ range you can regularly obtain PvP IOs and purples for considerably less. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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This sounds a lot like some of the witch tests in the good ole days.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
tell you what then, give us undeniable proof that every stealth recipe or io is harder to obtain then any purple or PvP io or recipe that is of equall demand. the list of purple and PvP recipe/io's you may not use are holds, confuse, immob's, pbaoe's, sleeps and targeted aoe's. infact scratch that, compare lv 50 stealth recipes/io's to purples and lv 50 PvP recipes/io's since purples are only lv 50. in either case, you are completely wrong.
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Maybe we should tie some rocks onto AF, if he sinks he's innocent and if he floats we'll hang him as a witch. Either way he's dead...
What is actually the case here is that some pvp IO's (recipe or crafted) are cheaper than celerity (recipe or crafted) when you compare them. Some pvp IO's are more expensive.
The information I take away from that is that running stealth IO's are fairly popular and some pvp IO's, despite extreme rarity (compared to all other IO's), are unpopular.
Inferring anything beyond that is a stretch. That said, I'm pretty flexible, so I can further infer that rarity is not always tied to function. I think this is a safe conclusion that is evidenced in normal IO's, but very apparent in pvp IO's.
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The whole thing can be summed up as players like the good stuff a lot more than they like junk.|
Originally Posted by kamikrazy
Inferring anything beyond that is a stretch. That said, I'm pretty flexible, so I can further infer that rarity is not always tied to function. I think this is a safe conclusion that is evidenced in normal IO's, but very apparent in pvp IO's.
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The 'good stuff' will be correspondingly expensive whatever label is attached, while the junk will be cheap.
There's nothing to be gained by comparing 'good' recipes or IOs with junky ones, regardless of what labels are affixed to either.
Supply and demand rule all, labels be damned.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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that is what i was trying to say. you just said it better. and rarity actually does have something to do with it, but since purples and PvP io's exemplar down with you and retain their full value, as well as stealth io's, the only real comparisson for them is at lv 50 where purples actually exsist and PvP io's are sought after and exsist.
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Originally Posted by kamikrazy
This sounds a lot like some of the witch tests in the good ole days.
Maybe we should tie some rocks onto AF, if he sinks he's innocent and if he floats we'll hang him as a witch. Either way he's dead... What is actually the case here is that some pvp IO's (recipe or crafted) are cheaper than celerity (recipe or crafted) when you compare them. Some pvp IO's are more expensive. The information I take away from that is that running stealth IO's are fairly popular and some pvp IO's, despite extreme rarity (compared to all other IO's), are unpopular. Inferring anything beyond that is a stretch. That said, I'm pretty flexible, so I can further infer that rarity is not always tied to function. I think this is a safe conclusion that is evidenced in normal IO's, but very apparent in pvp IO's. |
There are some pretty simple observations that probably explain the price of the AoE set PvPOs.
- The harder one for me to back up is the observation that PvP and other hardcore players seem likely to drive the high-end prices of items. What I see among PvPers I know is that they have some of the most driven players, who will do pretty much whatever it takes to equip their characters. I don't know anyone who can break the game better than the PvP players I know, and they regularly turn it into profit. Even though not all of them do this, some if the ones that do are so rich they can often equip friends and teammates, even with top-end gear. I've also seen changes in PvP FotM trends directly correlate with shifts in top-end market price of goods over the course of numerous issues.
- Since I13, a lot of "true" AoEs had their PvP damage scale gutted hardcore. Single-target attacks are where the money is at in trying to deliver burst damage. I suspect anyone sloting AoE sets in PvP is after their set bonuses. Even then, the only one that looks really attractive (especially for its position in the set) is -KB in the PBAoE set. But you can get -KB in the ranged sets and get a strong attack in the bargain.
- Their PvE bonuses are not especially attractive. Javelin Volley is one of the only Targeted AoE sets which offers decent recharge enhancement, but its good bonuses are kind of lame unless you're on the prowl for knockback protection.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I appreciate the personal attack in a forum where the discussion revolves around a statement you made a few pages back. You're still wrong, and you're still twisting your words to make yourself sound right. I'm done with you, welcome to my ignore list.
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You take it far to personally, it wasn't directed specifically at you.
But I can see why you might be hypersensitive
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Boy, that's a really convenient thing you did to your argument there. You should be a politician. Here's a protip for you, Fan: next time you write a sentence like that, try something along the lines of
Cheers. |
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I appreciate the personal attack in a forum where the discussion revolves around a statement you made a few pages back. You're still wrong, and you're still twisting your words to make yourself sound right. I'm done with you, welcome to my ignore list.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Well there you have, NG in a nutshell, if you disagree with him in any measure, you are mentally ill.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Angel just hasn't quite figured out how much of a troll A_F really is... This thread is a perfect example of it though.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I find it amusing that anyone other than one of AF's fellow, ah, unreality enthusiasts is taking exception to Uber here.
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Screenshots.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."