Fury and AT Changes?

For the longest time I've been waiting for GR to come out so I could fully realize my complete concept build...my WP/SS Tanker was going to become a SS/WP Brute.

However, this was all based on having Super Strength on a high damaging AT.

I was about to re-sub right when GR came out and then I read about the changes to Brutes and Fury...basically lowering their damage.

Although most people never stay at the damage cap...the lowered cap really hurts my "want" to play this character.

How does this effect the ATs top level ability?
Can you still solo AV's?

What exactly does this change do to the AT overall?

It brings the brute to just under what a scrapper can do offensively, which is where they should be, considering brutes are tougher.

They can still do all the things they could before.

Overall, the change is minimal. Brutes will find fury easier to build and maintain, but the cap is slightly lower.

This change won't really affect you, as it just normalises Brute damage to be in line with Scrappers. Since you also have not played a Brute you shouldn't notice much other than the increased damage compared to your Tanker but with defences taking longer to get to the same amount.

Also I was wondering if anyone knew whether this change affects the Thugs/ MM's Bruiser pet? As it is a fury using Brute.

I do not even notice that change on my ss/wp brute.

Brutes still rock and put out the damage.

I asked a friend who's been playing Brute for the past 5 years and he didn't even know there is a change in Fury.


So I guess the change isn't that much.

1) A Brute will ALWAYS still do more damage than a Tanker. (Even with Bruising)

2) A Brute will now do slightly less damage than a Scrapper, except under extreme circumstances. When buffed, the Scrapper will always do more damage.

3) My experience is that the on the average, I have more Fury than I used to have, not less. Although I can't hit the same max, I can hit the current max more often, and maintain even 65% for far longer.

In short, unless you were one of those people who steamrollered an entire mission at +4/x8, never pausing between spawns, your damage has not been lowered. SS is still as high damage as it used to be, it is just now more consistent and you don't have to worry as much about "smash" addiction.

I honestly find myself using Rage more often on my SS Brute, because I know I don't have to worry about it making me lose my rhythm when it crashes. So my damage has actually gone UP.

Also, concerning Brutes and AVs:

Brutes now gain an additional 5% Fury (up to 70%) for each attack that connects against AVs, Giant Monsters, and Player Characters. This means that, assuming you don't miss a lot, you'll hit the upward limit of Fury rather quickly against those sort of opponents.

One of my main characters is an SS/Inv Brute that's been around for years; the changes are hardly noticeable to me.

It really depends on the brute. If you had a brute that could generate fury quickly and you were able to generate fury and manage your insps to get your total damage buff up you are hurt by this. It definitely is a nerf to the top end brute performance, its also an out and out nerf to the faster less mitigating brute sets.

If you were unable to hit high levels of fury on your brute, and or your damage cap, its a buff.


@ those that say it was for balance, well maybe for perceived balance.

Damage

|          *         *
|-----------------------------------
|         *         * 
|        *   *     *   *
|       *     *   *     *
|      *         *      
|     *         *        *
|    *
|   *
|  * 
| *
|*
___________________________________________ Time 

Well, I think your Scrapper line is too high. Solo, Brute damage equalizes to Scrappers at 60% Fury. So it was more like this:

Fury     Damage
85%  |           *        *
75%  |          * *      * *
65%  |-----------------------------------
55%  |        *    *    *   *
45%  |       *      *  *     *
35%  |      *         *      
25%  |    * 
15%  |  *
05%  |*
___________________________________________ Time 

Fury     Damage
75%  |        * *     * *
65%  |---------------------------------
55%  |      *  *  * *  *  *
45%  |     *       *       *
35%  |    * 
25%  |   * 
15%  |  * 
05%  | *
___________________________________________ Time 

You can't use those threads (you actually linked the same one twice) to discuss overall output. They are ONLY for top end sustained damage against hard targets like AVs and Pylons and completely ignore aoe output.

There were several reasons that I had them unstickied. This is one of them.

If you're going to pick the spot where fury equalizes against scrapper damage, you have to make a LOT of assumptions including averaging out uptime on damage buffs.

Starting with no buffs, no crits, no enhancements.
.75*(1+x) = 1.125
x=.5 or 25% fury

Add enhancements.
.75*(1+.95+x) = 1.125*(1+.95)
.75+.7125+.75x = 2.19375
x=.975 or 48.75% fury

For 5% crit rate
.75*(1+.95+x) = (1.125*(1+.95))*1.05
.75+.7125+.75x = 2.3034375
x=1.12125 or 56.0625% fury

With 10% crit rate
.75*(1+.95+x) = (1.125*(1+.95))*1.1
.75+.7125+.75x = 2.413125
x=1.2675 or 63.375% fury


So where is that 60% coming from? Looks like crits are being average out at 7.5% of the time. Notice what's missing from the calculations so far? Yup, buildup, followup, soul drain, against all odds, etc. It's also ignoring those scrapper attacks with a 15% crit rate.

Now I didn't ignore those things at all when I did those DPS comparison threads, but I stated at the beginning of this post what I DID ignore and I don't think Anything should be ignored if you're really trying to get a handle on where brute and scrapper damage is at comparatively right now.

There's three points I want folks to take from this post:

1: A proper comparison of brute/scrapper damage output is going to take into account damage buff up time, a more accurate crit rate, a more accurate average fury level which will include variations for spawn sizes and a proper look at aoe output coupled with the other items I just mentioned.

2: The Results Are In threads were ONLY made to study top end attack chains against lone hard targets like AVs and Pylons and should not ever be used for any other purpose.

3: As a true study with accurate models is probably beyond the abilities of 99.99999% of us, myself definitely included, here's my gut feeling based on purely anecdotal evidence:

Brutes win on leveling speed. Scrappers look better doin it. Crits are cooler than fury. Brutes can take more hits. Play the one that feels better to you.

I was gone a couple months, (KNEE-DEEP in Starcraft 2, lol) and I came back rolled 4 new brutes and I love the new fury. SS was faster than ever, Stone got FUN, and 'Axe and 'Mace used to be a bit tough to build up, but now .. they get pissed fast and STAY pissed off. I really didn't notice a 'lacking' in damage. So yeah, I'd definitely call it 'New n Improved'.