Union, how much is too much?

I think Fans and Shadowe have it right. If we're talking about a story in which a canonical organisation acts out of character, that's not good. A few renegade members is fine - in Longbow's case we have canonical evidence of such, especially from the new tip missions - but derailing the group as such is, in my opinion, going too far. If that was just the opinion of one character (or even several), then there's no problem. Characters believe all kinds of things. It doesn't necessarily reflect the player's opinions, and it doesn't change "reality".

All people have an opinion coloured by their experience. That includes well conceived characters.

So, for example, Longbow as a group appear to be heavily coloured by their leader's opinions of 'villains.' They oppose Vanguard, not because they are incapable of mounting a good defense, but because they will employ villains to fight a common enemy. They believe all Praetorians are evil, because Ms Liberty does not have a high opinion of them. Individual Longbow members can be persuaded that these cases are untrue, but the group attitude appears to be to distrust without considerable evidence to the contrary. There's canonical, plot-based evidence to this. Longbow are crusaders against injustice, zealots, vigilantes. That's fine, but it's bound to rub some people up the wrong way, even those who have vigilante tendencies themselves.

To take another example, my current mains dislike Longbow. Nitoichi works heavily with Vanguard and has had to deal with far too much interference from Longbow in her career. Gunwitch is a Praetorian; IC she never came across Longbow, but she heard about them invading her home from others and finds them arrogant at the very least, if not imperialistic. These are opinions gained from experience, just as Longbow's nature is determined by Ms Liberty's experience.

It's just good characterisation.

True, however a line must be drawn where ICly, not all opinions are valid.

There are some opinions that are totally not valid. "Murder all Longbow because they're stupid" is an extremely silly example, and to many characters would be offensive.

OOCly it might be fun to play a character holding such a contraversial opinion. However you shouldn't fall victim to OOCly insisting that people must ICly accept that opinion as a permanent part of the game world if it takes RP contortionism to the extreme to make it fit the canon. You might pull it off for a day or two before getting arrested, but the arrest WOULD stick. Mass-Murdering an authority organisation... not likely to see the sun ever again.

We get to write canon for our characters and world only so far as the toes of the developers and owners who wrote the initial canon. Once you start stepping on those toes it's not the RP-community's right to say "Actually, we're okay with that" or "Actually, we don't like that". At that point you're infringing on a higher-power's canon.

Whilst they're unlikely to slap you down for it, you'd be hard pressed to maintain the charade for very long; as the more people that interact with you but stay within the Dev-canon the more your personal canon will get holes poked in it.

Actually -

Wait, why the hell are we talking about Marvel? At least CityOf Canon makes al inear kinda sense. I gave up trying to keep track of just what the smeg is going on in Marvel canon, or comic-book canon at all for that matter, because it's so damn wierd it makes my brain hurt.

And, again, for the umpteenth time; MMO stories///!= Comic Book story, for the very simple reason that all the stories in a certain comic universe are controlled by one person/group, i.e. the writers.
In an MMO setting, you simply cannot do the same things. Yes, CoX is a game based on comic book super heroes, but it does NOT work on the same principals in practical terms, because it CAN'T.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Hmmm, tricky…

Before I try to answer the OP, I will just state that:

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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler OOC apathy

…is really not the reason why I am choosing not to take part in that story.

However I would hope that this thread does not re-ignite the debate that got locked only a few weeks ago. Let’s try and keep this civil if we can. Back to the OP.

Human trafficking is a real world problem and one that I’m sure happens to some degree in the CoX world as well. I’m not about to pass judgement on whether it’s ‘better’ or ‘worse’ than blowing up a school, there’s no doubt that both cause untold human misery. What you as a player have to ask is whether you are ready for what kind of reaction you will get IC.

Villains, like Heroes, come in all kinds of flavours and although it’s good to push the boundaries of villainy, you should be aware that some Villains may not approve of your character’s actions either. Despite the ‘anything goes’ nature of the Isles, some crimes are still taboo. I suspect that anyone playing a serial rapist would be met with a very hostile response from both red and blue sides, ditto if it was any crime involving children who are always emotive. (See recent events for example.) So if you want to play a character who is proud of their human trafficking operation, be prepared that it may not go down too well in the criminal fraternity either.

Otherwise, I say go for it. I have a character who has done such things and worse in his background but it doesn’t form part of his current operations.


Oh and count me in on not liking in game factions twisted out of context to suit a story. Rogue factions exist, we’ve seen them, but whole organisations? Smells like god-modding to me.

I admit I made a mistake: I took the number of total victims -both dead and injured- of year 2004 Beslan School siege, and year 1999 bombings of Moscow, Buynaksk and Volgodonsk and compared those numbers to the number of dead victims of St. Johns massacre. But the exact count of victims is irrelevant, whether 100 or 1000, a terrorist attack does not automatically lead into a war.

Back to the topic.

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Originally Posted by Dante Human trafficking is a real world problem and one that I’m sure happens to some degree in the CoX world as well. I’m not about to pass judgement on whether it’s ‘better’ or ‘worse’ than blowing up a school, there’s no doubt that both cause untold human misery. What you as a player have to ask is whether you are ready for what kind of reaction you will get IC.

That was exactly the question I had in my mind, along the the question of OOC reaction by players. But just like in the real life, I assume there are also a vast number of gullible people in the game world who think that human trafficers are 'good guys', because they 'help' poor people to get away from the tyranny of Praetoria (or away from Rogue Isles), and that 'we should have a special place' for those who escape the 'inhuman world', saying: 'if the laws are wrong, they should be changed'.

Even if the streets of Paragon City were flooded by Praetorian/Rogue Isles superpowered muggers, prostitutes and beggars, you would be amazed how many people still thought human trafficing is done by good people, helping poor unfortunate people away from the tyranny of the Tyrant or Lord Recluse. Totally ignorant of the fact that it is really modern day slavery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Villains, like Heroes, come in all kinds of flavours and although it’s good to push the boundaries of villainy, you should be aware that some Villains may not approve of your character’s actions either. Despite the ‘anything goes’ nature of the Isles, some crimes are still taboo. I suspect that anyone playing a serial rapist would be met with a very hostile response from both red and blue sides, ditto if it was any crime involving children who are always emotive. (See recent events for example.) So if you want to play a character who is proud of their human trafficking operation, be prepared that it may not go down too well in the criminal fraternity either.

I am also very aware that if a newcomer villain suddenly amasses a lot of money in a short time, he becomes a potential threat. Money is power. Someone getting power at fast rate is a competitor.

Actually reckon you'd be fine with it.

My namesake already 'sort of' does the human trafficing thing.

He creates genetically engineered super powered individuals and sells them on as either 'dream partners' or bodyguards.

Mind you the thing keeping it from becoming a major problem is that the process is incredibly expensive, thus only the very rich can afford to have one designed for them and it is also very resource intensive, which means he has to pull people off his more profitable venture (granting people very low level super powers through genetics) in order to work on crafting the super being to specification.

So far there is only five individuals that are PC's, four of which are actually clones (a much easier process thanks to already having the genetic template in stock), one of the originator. Three are clones of the original and the fourth is a clone of a superhero tweaked slightly for specifications.

Mind you he is quite high profile about it, with adverts on TV but since he operates out of the Isles it is a legal grey area to try and stop him, though two people are in planning on how to halt it (one is essentially a rogue and wants to stop him because it infringes on her business and the other is a hero who owns an equally large corporation).

So go ahead with it, I mean the Corporation already does gun running, The Gang use to work in drug running so it's no different.

Now if you'll excuse me...I have some mine to craft...digging...a dwarfs life is never done on Cubeonia...

To further steal Mechanos point, human trafficking is so much more likely to happen with metahumans.

Sex slave? they are a dime a dozen, city leveling mutant? They are going to worth so much more.