A shout out to the Base Builders! May they get some love soon!
By
BlueTurbo,
Posted on: 2010-09-13 09:44 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
If the mule is intelligent enough for dyslexia to be an issue, I'll take it.
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
This is a shout-out to those dedicated folk that make our Supergroup Bases...well, super. Given the tools that they have (and from all accounts, they are like a stubborn dyslexic mule to work with)
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Hell yeah!
I've been working on and off on Unity Station, a space station built by the Unity Vigil supergroup. Included are things such as:
The Power Generator. Complete with mysterious crystals for power.
The Recreation Room! Complete with cinema, secret chill out areas, The New Vigilant's Roleplaying Game Society table, and reading area. I think it's definitely the most used room in the base.
There's also the Command center which has the office of the group's leader in the back. I've got other photos somewhere, but not uploaded yet.
The only thing I worry about is a base editor change invalidating all my hard work so far. 
Perhaps I'm cynical, but I can only see this ending in tears.
Base editing is a steaming pile of legacy code. It has bugs so old they've become cherished features: stacking, for instance. It has legacy items that people have repurposed to the point where improving their resemblance to the thing they're supposed to be is considered a terrible mistake. It has an editor that intimidates new users with its absurdly fine-grained control, and has no expedited path for reasonable defaults - all editing must be done at the detailed level, one piece at a time. Incremental improvement is not a realistic option - it would be too much effort for too little gain. Wholesale replacement would basically be a choice to discard a significant fraction of the current editing userbase - because all current bases would have to be invalidated in order to make enough changes to make a difference - in the hope that the new system will attract enough people to make up for the loss, and I'm pretty sure we all remember how well that went for PvP.
Basically, any changes significant enough to be worth doing would alienate the players who would theoretically be the target audience for the changes. The reason why devs aren't giving bases love is because there's no form of love they could give that would be returned.
Again, though, I'm cynical. But that's the cynical analysis, FWIW. I'd be overjoyed to see an effective rebuttal.
@SPTrashcan
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Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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Quote:
Indeed. Many base builders would be PO'd to start from scratch. The whole stacking business started out as an exploit which turned into an art form which turned into a sanctioned exploit (when developers removed collision boundaries from base objects as an "interim solution"). Fixing it at this point would present a whole quagmire of problems between "people who want a better base system", "people who have invested too much time to discard everything", "people who want base PvP back", and "people who think that base PvP will make base building too restrictive".|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Perhaps I'm cynical, but I can only see this ending in tears.
Base editing is a steaming pile of legacy code. It has bugs so old they've become cherished features: stacking, for instance. It has legacy items that people have repurposed to the point where improving their resemblance to the thing they're supposed to be is considered a terrible mistake. It has an editor that intimidates new users with its absurdly fine-grained control, and has no expedited path for reasonable defaults - all editing must be done at the detailed level, one piece at a time. Incremental improvement is not a realistic option - it would be too much effort for too little gain. Wholesale replacement would basically be a choice to discard a significant fraction of the current editing userbase - because all current bases would have to be invalidated in order to make enough changes to make a difference - in the hope that the new system will attract enough people to make up for the loss, and I'm pretty sure we all remember how well that went for PvP. Basically, any changes significant enough to be worth doing would alienate the players who would theoretically be the target audience for the changes. The reason why devs aren't giving bases love is because there's no form of love they could give that would be returned. Again, though, I'm cynical. But that's the cynical analysis, FWIW. I'd be overjoyed to see an effective rebuttal. |
It's the reason I haven't been more invested in my base than what investment I've already put into it.
Quote:
I would gladly sacrifice the hundreds of hours I have spent on the many different bases I|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Perhaps I'm cynical, but I can only see this ending in tears.
Base editing is a steaming pile of legacy code. It has bugs so old they've become cherished features: stacking, for instance. It has legacy items that people have repurposed to the point where improving their resemblance to the thing they're supposed to be is considered a terrible mistake. It has an editor that intimidates new users with its absurdly fine-grained control, and has no expedited path for reasonable defaults - all editing must be done at the detailed level, one piece at a time. Incremental improvement is not a realistic option - it would be too much effort for too little gain. Wholesale replacement would basically be a choice to discard a significant fraction of the current editing userbase - because all current bases would have to be invalidated in order to make enough changes to make a difference - in the hope that the new system will attract enough people to make up for the loss, and I'm pretty sure we all remember how well that went for PvP. Basically, any changes significant enough to be worth doing would alienate the players who would theoretically be the target audience for the changes. The reason why devs aren't giving bases love is because there's no form of love they could give that would be returned. Again, though, I'm cynical. But that's the cynical analysis, FWIW. I'd be overjoyed to see an effective rebuttal. |
have worked on for a new base system. Maybe I'm in the minority, I wouldn't feel
alienated, in fact I'd be willing to pay for a booster pack of new base stuff or even a base
expansion. I would have a demolition party for the old bases, sorta like when the Teutels
(sp?) wrecked their old shop on the tv show "American Chopper" for their new and
improved headquarters. I say bring on the new and improved base system.
Quote:
Well I would welcome a new base system I just hope it would attempt to import your old base layout and decorations into the new base system.|
Originally Posted by BlueTurbo
I would gladly sacrifice the hundreds of hours I have spent on the many different bases I
have worked on for a new base system. Maybe I'm in the minority, I wouldn't feel alienated, in fact I'd be willing to pay for a booster pack of new base stuff or even a base expansion. I would have a demolition party for the old bases, sorta like when the Teutels (sp?) wrecked their old shop on the tv show "American Chopper" for their new and improved headquarters. I say bring on the new and improved base system. |
I'm sure the whole thing is going to be way way more complicated then the Costume Editor but if I goto to load a saved costume and some of the pieces where moved or removed from the Editor there's a little button to click that will load the costume with the pieces that aren't missing.
If the Devs decide it's time for new pathing rules, fine. I would just wish I could load the base with everything that isn't violating the new pathing rules where I put it in the first place.
Hello all.
I promised two of my friends on Virtue that I would post this, and so I shall.
This is a shout-out to those dedicated folk that make our Supergroup Bases...well, super. Given the tools that they have (and from all accounts, they are like a stubborn dyslexic mule to work with), and the limitations of their time, these people pull off minor and major miracles on a regular basis.
Imagine my surprise earlier this evening when one of my friends was showing me around a Coalition base he's been working on and off with for years now and to see the incredible level of detail added to it. Rooms had fire hoses in them (Occupational Health and Safety reasons, he commented). A full night club with a floor section replaced with 256 stacked bookcases. A cinema! And last but by no means least, another person had been contracted in to build an apartment complex inside the base! And it was totally believable! I didn't think someone could pull off furnishings, stovetops, showers, beds and furniture given the limitations of the base editor, yet here it was.
And my other friend showed his mastery of spiralling columns, acheived by 'weaving' curved floor decorations together from floor to ceiling. I am and continue to remain in awe of these people, who can take these objects and manipulate them so to create things the original program could have never anticipated.
I sincerely genuinely hope that the dev team look to this group in the future, who have said whenever I've enquired of them that they would love simpler, more intuitive controls and far far more options for building than what they have now. I also sincerely hope that the technology and art assets brought to bear in Going Rogue also become available for base builders, because quite frankly I think they deserve it. These people show me why for no other reason than the aesthetics and the desire to actually be in these enviroments, bases have a relevance that has long stood away from their original functions as PvP staging grounds and never fully realised bases of operations, pun unintentional.
I want to see base building be as elegant as in something like Second Life or the Sims and be as graceful as Galaxies could be. I hope others will join me in expressing their appreciation and desire to see base builders get the tools they rightly deserve.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse