So I finally tried Masterminds...

and I'm glad I did. But I'm also glad that I waited a year-and-a-half to do so. In my opinion, the complexity of MMs requires a firm grasp of game mechanics since they're not as intuitive to play as blasters or brutes, for example. (both of which I also enjoy) It seems like learning the basics of the game while also learning how to utilize your henchmen would require a fairly steep learning curve.

I have a 10th level Bot/Traps and two others at 6th level: Ninjas/Dark and DS/Storm.

I also tried a Necromancy/Poison but didn't care for it. Initially I thought that death and poison would be a perfect match... like cookies and milk... pickles and ice cream... unicorns and glitter. Unfortunately, the zombies seemed to require more healing than the other henchmen. And they're slow. And they're stupid. And the constant sound of their puking was, well, disgusting. So I deleted the toon rather than run the risk of constant projectile vomiting myself. (hanging out with the undead is obviously not for the squeamish)

I learned a lot from reading these boards and finally understood the utility of the Presence pool. But then a question occurred to me while considering it for my Bots/Traps...

If the goal is to draw enemies into my trap-laden kill zone, can't I do this with a temporary power and save myself a permanent power choice? Won't firing a pistol or lobbing a hand grenade have the same effect? Besides gaining the ability to slot IO's, what are the benefits of using the Presence pool to pull in enemies?

Thanks.

Good to see you like Masterminds! Bot/traps, as you've read. is an excellent combo.

I've always gotten by without taunt powers myself, and normally use PPP/APP moves to draw aggro.

/Poison with anything is good but very single-target. some use it for Ninjas since the ninjas are very single target as well and it's great for killing bosses. but yah the heal in /Poison is small....

Zombies are cool when paired with something like /Dark, /Thermal, or especially /FF, the -tohit from the grave knights and Lich stack nice with Bubbles, as weird thematicaly as it looks lol.

I don't use Taunt on my Bots/Traps MM, but I've considered it several times. Rather than drop and pull to me, I tend to run forward and toe-drop, then push forward and redrop as fast as I can, to which end I am recharge intensive.

Dropping and pulling to me would be safer, but less satisfying.

Comes down to playstyle.

If you intend to tankermind, a taunt is necessary.

Hmmm... based on what I've read and my usual play style, I'm inclined to skip the taunt and use temp powers to lure victims into my kill zone.

Of course, my play style could change once I become more familiar with the capabilities of the powersets. I'm new to Masterminds and have limited experience with Traps. (I've got a level-43 blaster with /Devices, however, which is similar.)

Guess I'll have to experiment as I acquire new powers.

Provoke allows you to hold threat on the mobs, while you (the player) are in bodyguard mode, thus directing all the incoming damage on you, and not your pets. Pets are extremely squishy when compared to a fully IOed mastermind with bodyguard mode. Bodyguard mode splits the incoming damage to the mastermind into equal parts for the pets. Basically, divide the damage you are about to take into N+1 parts, where N is the number of pets you have. each pet then takes N damage and you take N+1 damage (lame man terms, each pet takes 1 part damage, you take 2 parts damage)

If your holding threat, and 'tankerminding' your pets arent dieing, your not dieing, and you can pretty much tank anything in the game that way.

Do remember that your pets have a higher threat modifier then you do, so it'll take some pretty massive provoking to keep all incoming damage on you.

Your not using it to pull into a field of death, your using it to soak up damage, and keep your pets (and teammates) alive.

OK, I think I get it now. Being new to Masterminds, I wasn't clear on the whole "tankerminding" concept. Thanks for clarifying.

Just wanted to add in for the tankermind you will need defense caps. I know some will chime in Resistance, but I have done some number comparison in another thread showing that because of the number of hits that you will be getting from an AV or even a bunch bosses you have a good chance of loosing pets because of the amount of dps you will be spreading out through bodyguard. Every AV has that one big hit. The one that usually wipes out those not at defense cap for that type of positional or damage type. Prior to being at Defense cap what would happen is my tier 1 would almost be dead and then the next attack from the AV that got in would kill them off. Then as I am resummoning my Tier 1s my Tier 2s would be dropping pretty much a domino effect.

Of course the less pets you have out the more damage that needs to be spread around to the others.. Basically you end up having this unwanted chain effect of having to resummon pets. And there will be a point especially in a AV fight where your pets will be dead and that darn pet summon button will still be on recharge.

Defense cap lessens the amount of hits which between IO set bonuses to regen and Triage beacon allows you and the pets to regen back up.

I usually point myself in front of the AV and the pets either to the left or right of the AV with Triage Beacon in between.

Using Provoke I keep the AV on me and toss I down a Trip mine and other stuff when I can.

Further using provoke helped me to control the mobs and not the pets. Instead of me starting the fight hoping that the pets won't charge in or having the pets start the fight and be ready to recall all the pets back that charged into melee range. Starting the fight is risky business since you will now get the alpha back. But some have noticed when you start the fight, sometimes, just sometimes the pets actually stop behind you and stay a bit and fight from a distance. Where as if you command the pets to attack, some will attack at range then close the gap to get into melee range. So then went from doing 40 dps to 2 dps..

I used Provoke even when I was not at defense cap. But I would send the pets in and then Provoke the mobs to attack me. I would get mix results sometimes, sometimes half would attack me and half the pets or the pets would take there incoming alpha and then they would turn to me. Either way its a win. Just less worrying about having to control the pets and having to yell STAY, PASSIVE, STAY, DEFENSIVE. If the pets get to close now I can have all goto one spot further away as I provoke.

Even if they fixed the Pet AI Provoke still is great for making everyone look at you.

I would level your Robot Traps I think it one of the BEST MM sets around. You get defense cap. Some resistance. You can tankermind much easier with this set.

For regular missions you can be the Tank/Brute with a bit of setting up. I think if anything that is a bit of the down fall, the few moments to set up. You would need players with a small amount of Patience ( GL with that one, hehe ). Where as a Tank / Brute just can rush in and start the fight.

But I cannot express how cool it is to be running around with my Robot Traps knowing I can handle just about anything.

I'm with you. I prefer to help with the attacks and work my buffs/debuffs. I like fly so I usually get 1 mm attack and air superiority.

I also hate it when my pets die but sometimes you just have to sacrifice them. I so hate Succubus's for forcing me to send my pets in first to take the confuse .

Lots of good info here that will help me plan my build and play my character. Thanks everybody.

The prescence pool is really for tankerminding, not for pulling.

My soft capped S/L Demons/Dark rarely takes a hit, even when shes taunted herself 8 man groups. When she does take a hit the damage is spread out among her pets in bodyguard mode, and she takes very little damage overall.

As an example I was doing an STF the other night, and it was the time to search for the Security Guard? key holder. I glanced away from the screen and msised that we got the key, and charged into the next group of enemies while the rest of the team took a tangent and made for the door.

I was stood in the group, with the ambush from defeating a Securit Guard joining in too, wondering why the epyleptic fits of joy of other peopls powers firing off had not started why I noticed they were already taking down the first AV.

So I calmly finished off the 2 groups I had and made to join the rest.

Ive played bots to 40ish, and its fun, But i personally have never gotten on with the static nature of traps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoodooGirl [*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*

If you grab presence, it's to keep agro on you, not just to grab initial agro and pull a spawn. I've found this to be highly useful, even when soloing. For example, malta zeus titans will completely obliterate my bots if the missile hits (and I swear it always seems to, not sure if the dot is auto-hit or something similar, but it is not ground targeted). Basically, 1 hit will wipe out all my bots save for maybe my assault bot, which is pretty much a death sentence. So I taunt the zeus to ensure he keeps shooting at me, and my bots stay safe.

Same story for any other powerful enemy that does a ton of damage with every hit, like AV's. Your bots really can't tank those hits, they would get 1 shot by most of the attacks, and aoe's have the potential of killing multiple pets at once. So I just taunt spam the AV while keeping my bots out of melee range and away from me so no aoe's can hit them.

Never a big fan of traps either so I mostly go Bots/FF. Teleport enemy into middle of bot group, bots attack, blast enemy with force bolt, bots attack, enemy dies. Rinse and repeat. This also prevents my bots from wandering off after enemies as I bring them to me. Load up on accuracy and distance for the teleport and life is very easy. The drawback to this system of play is it is very slow. Teleport destroy, teleport destroy.

I'm playing a Mercs/Traps myself, building it to be AV capable and it's going really well, just got through the old annoying 18-24 patch. I gotta say, the Achilles' Heel Res Debuff works wonders.

I've recently taken up a Mastermind, Thugs/Traps. Up to lvl 36 -- Lots of fun, and lots of great advice here about Slotting & Macros...so Thanks.

I do wish a Mastermind's attacks were more effective. I'd like to get in there and help my pets 'dish it out', but the Pistol damage just isn't enough to make it worth the bother (had them 4 & 5 slotted too). I'm more effective helping out with the Vet Attacks, so I recently respecced and totally got rid of my Pistol attacks, replacing them with more powers from the secondary... and am seeing a much more effective MM as a result.

While I enjoy being more effective, I sure like those Pistols and wish they were more than Pop Guns...

I know, I know... I've read post after post saying MMs shouldn't really be attacking anyway. Fair enough, and with the limited attack power, actually good advice. Those attacks are there, though, 3 powers in the Primary -- seems odd that you're less effective for taking them at all.