Brute solo vs Scrapper solo

I just explained that happens at ~112% Fury, IFF there's no Build Up, red inspirations, Against All Odds, etc.

Do you really think Fury is averaging 135%? Are you sure you're monitoring it and not forgetting when you pop reds or use Rage or something? The average is much closer to 75% or 80%.

As stated over and over, Brutes will beat them out, briefly, under occasional circumstances. Over time, if you're doing anything but late game max'd out IO steam rolling farming, the Scrapper will win. Do you REALLY think our developers have so little idea what they're doing that they can't balance two of the only AT's that share the same primary AND secondary the way they want to?

Stalkers are their own argument, of course.

The bar was visually around 75% full when I noticed around 135% damage buff on my attribute monitor with no other buffs active.

A full bar of fury buffs all brute damage by 200%. That's a fact.

So, 135% would actually be 67.5% full fury.

I noticed routinely numbers up int eh 150% damage buff area, but 135% damage buff was practically guaranteed fast even against a single minion.

Well, there's also the fact that Fury's effect is HUGE at the lower levels before one can slot to the ED cap.

I'd absolutely agree that before all my attacks are perfectly slotted, Fury makes my underslotted Brute much more damaging than my underslotted Scrapper, same set or not.

And the new Fury is making it easier for my new Brutes to build and keep Fury than before. Lower levels are definitely easier on a Brute.

Bold for hilarity. It reminded me of So I Married an Axe Murderer: "Pregnant man gives birth... that's a fact."


Anyway, based on your discussion with Bill about criticals and this, I'm guessing you just don't understand averages. In this case it means you take every second where Fury is relevant, add up what Fury was at that second, and divide by the total number of seconds you are considering. That's really great that sometimes you see your fury at 67.5%. For the AVERAGE to be that high, however, it has to be at 100% as often as it is at 35%. Even more so when you consider how often it will be at 0%.

Also note:
Again and again, the devs were intentional. The Brutes damage is slightly below the Scrappers on average. Mind you that Scrappers have 90% the HP that Brutes do, so the damage Brutes have isn't going to be TOO far behind to balance them. It is behind though.


As for the first 20 levels, a resounding "so what?" With the current leveling curve the first 20 levels are what, about 5% of the game? Once Stamina is available before that, and no one's resting for endurance, it'll be even less.

Not to mention that at lower levels (ie <20) the AT modifiers haven't fully diverged yet, either (it'd be between 1.00 and 0.75).

(As an aside, I bet if Castle were to do it all over, Fury would provide a smaller +dmg buff at low levels like the updaed Vigilance does.)

That's exactly my point.
I just don't want to stick around for 25-30 levels of the character not doing as well as I know another character does.

They may be balanced at the end, but things definitely feel different in the beginning.

LOOK!
Play a brute since the issue 18 fury changes at low levels while monitoring your damage buff numbers, or just play around with Mid's.
You can set your fury level in Mid's to up to 200% damage buff, and, in game right now, you can fight one minion and see your fury hit at least 60% full(120% buff) right about when he is about to die or dead. Given 3 minions spawns or a lieutenant and minion normal in missions you will only have higher fury.


It's a fact because it's a fact.
I bet Bill Z will shortly clear your clouded vision if he already hasn't while I was posting this.




Edit:
I also spent quite a bit of time in the low level content, and plan to continue doing so, for all the stories. I still haven't seen even half of them or all the optional twists. If the entire game was as good as Praetoria then I would easily be occupied for years.

My only response is to say that in the long run, that first 30 levels is such a short period that I wouldn't base my choice of AT on it.

My first Scrapper has enough hours played that it averages out to about... 3 hours a day for the last 6 years. 1-30 is a drop in the bucket.

I know not everyone plays that much on each character and I certainly don't even have any others with half that much time, but my point still stands. You'll spend much more time at the levels where things are much better balanced between the two ATs.

Some people have different opinions based on expectations and playstyle. Also, grass is green and ketchup is red.

It's just not easy to feel like you want to continue if the starting experience sucks.

It will also suck if you exemplar if that is the case. So, it is best to like a character the whole way through.

You expect Bill Z to come and contradict himself now, or do you just not read everything?
I found "That's a fact" hilarious because that sort of statement never contributes any value. I would hope you believe what you're saying in all cases. All that does it imply that some of the other things you said may be opinions or beliefs. I don't think numbers can often be the result of "opinions" though. You could have just said "that's interesting" or "I like how." These things are fluffy statements that don't help your case in any way.

I've played a Brute from 45 to 49 since the changes. I've been monitoring my fury that whole time. Yeah, it gets up to 135% sometimes, but that's by no means the average (counter-pun intended). You can bang your head against the wall all you want, the fact will remain, Scrappers are balanced to do more damage on average. Brute's fury will spike and they will get a few hits in with higher damage, but the circumstances they can maintain that advantage under are slim.

I also have Foot Stomp, so building Fury as quickly as possible is not a problem.

And again, I guess I should say "LOOK" to you. If you really think the fact that your fury bare HITS +135% damage sometimes means that's the average (implying that it's all the time), you simply don't understand the math involved.

Consider the patch notes, again. The "sharp fall off" of Fury begins at 30%. So I suppose you could explain your circumstances a little better to account for how you're fighting that fact. Like, is it -1x1 and you bring enough inspirations that you never have to stop moving?

Your definition of "suck" is significantly different from my own.

I meant "visually" 75% when I look at the little moving bar that people seem to have forgotten exists.

It stays up there very easily since fury decays a lot slower below 75%(150% buff) now. It decays faster when it is above 75%, but it stays up a lot easier when it drops back below 3/4s of the bar length.


Honestly, I am not inclined to level a scrapper or any character purely for the fully slotted out endgame. At least half the game occurs before that point.
I have to enjoy a character almost the whole way to even bother.

I did enjoy my bs/wp scrapper, but I enjoy brutes more on a wider variety of sets because they start great and end pretty darn good.

At the endgame, everyone is supposed to be amazing even if a bit different than everyone else. It's not solely what I base my character choice on which is why brutes always trump scrappers for my tastes.

Except what he said was a fact.

Quit applying an incorrect tone to my words.

I wasn't posting like "those classes are the worst int eh universe". I was posting from the perspective of "I don't have as much fun on them as this other one".

Fun is subjective and I'm just saying that the classes have to start and stay fun for them to hold my interest. Brutes start and stay fun and strong.



Edit:
Yes, fury is consistently buffing my damage 135-150% on my new kinetic melee brutes up to level 32 so far. I never have any trouble keeping it up solo on 0x1 spawns or even -1x1 for times when I just want to blow through tip missions.

Mayeb it's slower at high levels or you're on a team that hogs aggro, locks down enemies so they can't generate fury or has them racing aroudn so much that you can't keep it up, but it works just fine solo when we also don't have any team buffs already maxing us out.



Edit 2:
I'm starting to understand where everyone is when I would like opinions in the other thread about my kinetic/shield brute build ideas.
I really want to make a great kinetic/shield brute.

Touché.

<[Repeats what followed that quote the first time.>

Sorry, when I play Brute, I care about the Fury bar. I am annoyed when it drops and I am very happy when it's up high. If I don't care about Fury, I see no point in playing Brute. No, Fury doesn't come to me. Fury comes when I try to maintain it by either drawing aggro to me or constantly hitting. Fury doesn't come to me "free". I don't know where that logic "Fury comes to me" comes from. And I am weird in a way that I hate seeing fury dropping. Yes, I am paying too much attention but this is the reason why I don't make a lvl 50 Brute. I've made 4 lvl 50 Stalkers... hehe


Brute is over-rated. Brute only has a bit more health than Scrapper. I actually mostly play Stalker and when I take those defensive shields, my Stalker survives well enough. If my Stalker can, so can Scrapper.

I am sure it's easier to maintain Fury now but I think Brutes in general are quite over-rated especially in comparison to Scrapper.

It's all subjective. This thread needs to realize that.

Fun.

Is.

Subjective.

I will always loves my Brutes more than my Scrappers.

Agreed. I prefer Brutes to Scrappers as well. I'm just not going to allow that fun fool me into thinking I'm out damaging the Scrappers on my team.

Well, you could depending on how you're both slotted, how much luck they have with the RNG, how much fury you're getting, what your connection speeds are and any graphics lag you have, not to mention reaction times.
:P

That's actually exactly what I meant when I said I'm not going to fool myself. Averages, damage over time, etc etc.

I guess it's possibly they didn't enhance... That's more arrogant thinking than foolish though.

And that attitude is completely fair. I think you described 95% of the playerbase there. I just wouldn't use "suck" to name that attitude.

Only replied like that because there's always bit of hyperbole regarding what is considered an acceptable level of performance on an objective level. It's not nearly as bad now as it was early on though. I'm probably just a little sensitive to comments like that. No worries, I actually agree with you.