Revamp Martial Arts/Martial Arts for Brutes
By
AzureSkyCiel,
Posted on: 2010-08-30 09:49 in Suggestions and Ideas
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I have to say, I actually love the way Martial Arts is setup now.|
Originally Posted by COV4LIFE
Ok, I'm not the only one to notice that the generic martial arts power set the DEV is ok. It really stinks that it only does smashing damage for the most. After seeing Kinetic Melee look so much similar to TaijiQuan (TaiChi) I was wondering why can't martial arts look that flashy. After seeing Dual-Pistol I think it is very easy to make martial arts look more artsy, and fantasy looking. I understand we have the new customization for martial arts it was ummm....Meh! I would like to see faster animation for martial arts make the kicks look snapping quick, this is a comic book game. I would love to see a flurry of Kicks add to MA, or how about making a brute version of martial arts make it total different from the scrapper and stalker version. It seems because this is a superhero comic game, martial arts isn't that superior in the states or the UK. In other Asiatic countries in there comics martial arts is superior as well as super strength, and psionic etc.. I could careless if martial arts is on top like said this is an Superhero game based on American style comes, but I wish Dev would make Martial arts a flashy, artsy, or fantasy fell to it.
MA for Brutes Example: Storm kick - hit multiple enemies surrounding the player. crippling axe kick- causes a thunderous knockdown effect to all enemies in the area leaving a massive crack in the ground. How about giving us a Melee martial art weapon powerset with staffs, Tonfa, or Nunchuks so want to make a ninja turtle character HHALAOL!!! |
The only reason I'd see to give Storm Kick the cone treatment is because of the animation. However I personally wouldn't want it changed to a cone, as it'd lose it's single target damage to make up for the fact that it can hit multiple enemies.
Martial Arts is a very single targeted oriented set, and I see no reason to change it because of that (now that its had major improvements).
If a single target oriented set is not your cup of tea, play a different set (Energy Melee and Dark Melee are other single targeted oriented sets you may want to avoid).
As for the animations, while I hope to see more added and in fact, some of Martial Arts animations ported to the Elemental sets, personally the only animation I find BLEH, is Crippling Axe Kick's.
Even the alternate punch animation doesn't seem to flow right. However the rest of the animations...Ooooo.
I keep hoping they'll give Crane Kick the alternate animation of Cobra Strike's original animation, as it looks like it could easily have a knockback effect to it.As for it being purely smashing damage, I see no problem with that.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I've been thinking about this since the Beta changes went in and while my initial suggestion for changing a power into a cone was welcomed by few, it was proven to me that it would indeed make the sent more inferior to its single target attack chains. However, those tend to not include Thunder Kick, but I seriously doubt that the devs would change a tier 1 melee attack into a cone.
After reading multiple threads about Martial Arts, it appears that by and large most are quite happy with the sets performance, barring one oft repeated issue: the lack of focus of secondary effects. I've been starring at the powers list and secondary effects for days now and then it dawned on me. Martial Arts needs a pseudo-combo system.
Now, I don't mean combos that dual blades utilizes where it takes multiple attacks to pull off a secondary effect. The inspiration came from the change to Scrapper's Eagles Claw. If other attacks were given a similar treatment, yet instead of additional crit chances, they provided a short duration period where the next attack would apply the original attack's secondary effect. The it would end up looking along these lines:
Thunder Kick: adds a buff window for a mag 2 disorient proc to the next attack.
Storm Kick (currently has no secondary effect): adds a buff window for a mag 2 immobilize, foe - spd, - fly, and a -7.5% defense debuff proc (this is to match it up with the secondary effects from Crane Kick).
Cobra Strike: retains its mag 3 disorient, but adds a buff window for a mag 2 disorient proc.
Crane Kick: retains its knock back, but adds a buff window for a 0.67 knock back (knock down) proc.
CAK: adds a buff window for a immobilize, - spd, - fly, and -7.5% defense debuff proc.
Dragons Tail: adds a .67 knock back (knock down) proc.
Eagles Claw: adds a +20% chance for crit, and a mag 2 disorient proc.
Its important to have both flashy fighting sets (Kinetic Melee, Energy Melee) and plainer more realistic looking ones like Martial Arts (and Superstrength to some degree).
CoX supports much more than Western superheroes or Aisan comic heroes or any one genre - its a kind of mish mash of various comic sources, fantasy and science fiction. And some players are going to want a non-flashy fighting set for characters who are good in a scrap without focussing mystical energy or doing anything superhuman.
I'd say leave MA where it is rather than making it more like Kinetic Melee. Diversity is good.
Only change I would like to see is change Crane Kick from KB to KU.
I'd settle for either Knockup or Knockdown for Crane Kick, as well.
How about just making the immobilize in CAK suppress KB?
You know, there was a time when Martial Arts was the flashy melee set...
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
I wish dev would make another type of martial arts set maybe a set style of one power set where you can change styles kinda like duel pistol. But I would love to see MA for brutes though.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
plainer more realistic looking ones like Martial Arts
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| plainer more realistic looking |
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| [City of Heroes] Martial Arts [powerset] |
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| The same powerset meant to represent martial arts with only kicks, one hand technique, and involves performing a drop kick that has you leap straight up into the air before suddenly gaining horizontal momentum for the kick before backflipping back into place. |
You fail real martial arts forever, Mike.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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So, like Martial Arts only substantially better? Or are you really prepared to lose most of the damage on those powers for the sake of making them AoE?|
Originally Posted by COV4LIFE
Storm kick - hit multiple enemies surrounding the player.
crippling axe kick- causes a thunderous knockdown effect to all enemies in the area leaving a massive crack in the ground. |
Personally, I find Martial Arts is more than flashy enough for me. I'm not sure what people are looking for when they want to make a set that's already needlessly flashy even more so. Make it into Kinetic Melee? That set is basically the same twirling hands animation repeated in every power, only one power does it once, one power does it twice and so forth. I mean, it's not BAD, but I wouldn't want to see Martial Arts done like this, especially since Kinetic Melee is so infuriatingly slow to activate across the board.
I'm not sure I'd want to see Kinetic Melee's "snap hits" ported over other sets, myself. They look cool for the relatively small motions in that particular set, but they look like they're just skipping frames. Because they are. In Kinetic Melee, it works. In a set that's replete with such wide leg sweeps and complex motions, such snap swings would just look... Goofy? Anime does a good job of such snap attacks, but those are done with a series of cheats, such as blurry body parts, motion lines, slow motion or other hit effects which I have some doubt would work in 3D, especially OUR 3D.
What's more, snap hits don't look or feel power, not to my eyes. Kinetic Melee "cheats" by not really being about the force so much as the energy, so even when its attacks don't feel heavy enough to do the damage they're dealing, it's OK because it's the energy that's doing the damage. Martial Arts is not an energy-based attack set. It is physical melee, so it NEEDS to feel heavy, which the current animations do.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Soooo oversimplifying the animations.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Make it into Kinetic Melee? That set is basically the same twirling hands animation repeated in every power, only one power does it once, one power does it twice and so forth.
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Tier 1 is a block with one hand and a palm thrust with the other hand.
Tier 2 is a waving motion followed through by guarding the face with one hand and thrusting with the other.
Tier 3 is technically a lock, pushing the enemy's guard out of the way but is kind of fast, just looks like waving the hands in a windmill motion then double palm thrust.
Tier 4 (Repulsing Torrent) is actually a throw. Grab at the enemy, pull him back then fling back in a fluid motion.
Tier 5 (Burst) Look like an energy charge then slam to the ground.
Tier 6 (F. Burst) Looks like an energy charge too but thrust it at ranged instead.
Tier 7 (Concentrated Strike) Okay, that looks like a lot of hand waving...but then it looks like element bending.
If you just want to simplify the strike, well then you've got 2 single palm thrusts (a 3rd that is ranged and 4th that is at the ground) and 2 double palm thrust.
I just want Martial Arts for Brutes.
I like the new animations, and more options would be that much cooler.
And I love the idea of switching styles.
Hopefully the Devs read this thread and some magic happens :-D
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That's basically what I'm saying. I don't want to dis Kinetic Melee, because it's a decent set, but I don't want Martial Arts to be like it. I don't believe it would be an improvement.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
If you just want to simplify the strike, well then you've got 2 single palm thrusts (a 3rd that is ranged and 4th that is at the ground) and 2 double palm thrust.
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As well, Kinetic Melee falls into what I like to call the "Arachnos Base Syndrome." It's comprised of genuinely unique and interesting animations, but at the end of the day, they still "look" like a lot of the same thing - arm circles and palm strikes. And they're all straight palm thrusts, too.
The reason I name Arachnos Bases in this is because there are A LOT of corridor pieces in Arachnos bases, each very unique from the others. There are pipes, machines, different mesh configurations and so on, but it still LOOKS like still more incomprehensible indistinguishable evil tech. Offices are much more diverse diverse in feel despite being LESS diverse in terms of tileset pieces.
Even though Martial Arts is mostly kicks, each kick is visibly and obviously different from the other. One's a swing, one's a thrust, one's a sweep, one's a jump and so on. Much as I like Kinetic Melee, it's just fancy palm thrusts. There's not even a swing in sight. I guess it makes sense for what the set is, but I prefer Martial Arts how it is now.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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There is a swing. Repulsing Torrent.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Even though Martial Arts is mostly kicks, each kick is visibly and obviously different from the other. One's a swing, one's a thrust, one's a sweep, one's a jump and so on. Much as I like Kinetic Melee, it's just fancy palm thrusts. There's not even a swing in sight. I guess it makes sense for what the set is, but I prefer Martial Arts how it is now.
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Although I can understand there being limited variance in the palm thrusts, I can't agree that it's all 'arm circles'. Really, there's only 3 attacks that involves circular arm motions (Body Blow, Smashing Blow and Concentrated Strike). Repulsing Torrent, again, is more of a swing pendulum movement, Quick Strike is a fast palm thrust and the Bursts are 'energy charging' animations....Oh, and Assassin's Strike is a Hadouken.
Suffice it to say that I don't want to argue this point to a conclusion. All I'm saying is I don't feel that Kinetic Melee is a superior substitute to current martial arts, or martial arts in general. It may resemble a real, existing martial art more, but after having studied martial arts myself (namely, Wing Tsun), it has become clear to me that they are often not very exciting or cinematic. Movie "and game" martial arts tend to be fake and unwieldy, but look a lot more impressive in action nevertheless.
Kinetic Melee feels more reserved and utilitarian, and it does so because it always keeps close to the same footing, if I had to give a specific reason. Given that it has no kicks or, I can see why, but it wouldn't be my first choice for Martial Arts. In fact, it's starting to irritate me that people keep suggesting that, specifically since I see it everywhere I look.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Not *really* really arguing a point, just pointing out a generalization.
I didn't even realize people were suggesting to add KM type animations to MA. Is that what we're talking about here? 
I can't say I've kept up with all the KM threads but haven't really heard alot of hooplah about wanting the animations for other melee sets...heck, most of the time, I feel I have to defend KM's animations like I'd defend MA's CAK animation...but all in all, I'm not really understanding your stance. You're against 'adding' animations to MA?
I know I'd be bummed if the devs passed over adding more acrobatic animations to MA in favor of basic punches, yeah, but I couldn't say I'd be against adding simple punches in the first place.
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Most of what I've heard whenever anyone brings up Kinetic Melee is "Oh, that's basically Tai Chi. THIS is what Martial Arts should have been like all along!" and I'm like "O.o I don't agree with that!"|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I can't say I've kept up with all the KM threads but haven't really heard alot of hooplah about wanting the animations for other melee sets...heck, most of the time, I feel I have to defend KM's animations like I'd defend MA's CAK animation...but all in all, I'm not really understanding your stance. You're against 'adding' animations to MA?
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I'm not against adding more animations to Martial Arts, especially not more acrobatic ones. But not these. They work really well for Kinetic Melee, but they're not what I'd look for in an "acrobatic" martial arts set. I'd like to see air, more wild swings, more fancy footwork and so on. Just check out anything from 9Dragons, like... Say, the Heavenly Demon fighting style. Or, really, anything. That's more like what I had in mind.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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There's always going to be fights between whether martials arts should be more brawly or more ornate. The fact that there's a relatively even split between the groups who don't like it is the best sign that it's actually where it needs to be.
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I mean I understand what you saying I would at least wish they make a booster pack where you can have more MA animation option that would be nice currently MA just look so slow!!!.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Most of what I've heard whenever anyone brings up Kinetic Melee is "Oh, that's basically Tai Chi. THIS is what Martial Arts should have been like all along!" and I'm like "O.o I don't agree with that!"
I'm not against adding more animations to Martial Arts, especially not more acrobatic ones. But not these. They work really well for Kinetic Melee, but they're not what I'd look for in an "acrobatic" martial arts set. I'd like to see air, more wild swings, more fancy footwork and so on. Just check out anything from 9Dragons, like... Say, the Heavenly Demon fighting style. Or, really, anything. That's more like what I had in mind. |
Ok, I'm not the only one to notice that the generic martial arts power set the DEV is ok. It really stinks that it only does smashing damage for the most. After seeing Kinetic Melee look so much similar to TaijiQuan (TaiChi) I was wondering why can't martial arts look that flashy. After seeing Dual-Pistol I think it is very easy to make martial arts look more artsy, and fantasy looking. I understand we have the new customization for martial arts it was ummm....Meh! I would like to see faster animation for martial arts make the kicks look snapping quick, this is a comic book game. I would love to see a flurry of Kicks add to MA, or how about making a brute version of martial arts make it total different from the scrapper and stalker version. It seems because this is a superhero comic game, martial arts isn't that superior in the states or the UK. In other Asiatic countries in there comics martial arts is superior as well as super strength, and psionic etc.. I could careless if martial arts is on top like said this is an Superhero game based on American style comes, but I wish Dev would make Martial arts a flashy, artsy, or fantasy fell to it.
MA for Brutes
Example:
Storm kick - hit multiple enemies surrounding the player.
crippling axe kick- causes a thunderous knockdown effect to all enemies in the area leaving a massive crack in the ground.
How about giving us a Melee martial art weapon powerset with staffs, Tonfa, or Nunchuks so want to make a ninja turtle character HHALAOL!!!