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I've "experienced" practising during beta. The only way* to currently succeed on a consistent basis is to have everybody on a Vent/TS server and only with a select group of people. |
Originally Posted by InsanityPeak
I really don't see what the problem is. If they added a MoCoP badge, either you earn it, or you don't. They call it a Mo Badge for a reason, and let's face it, sooner or later, we'll get MoCoP groups run in something like half an hour, because enough people are experienced enough with it to even drag a few morons through it.
This kind of thing just takes a little practice. I'd be for the badge. |
There is a difference between good and bad game design that the Master badges consistently fail to address. They are not good reward design.
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* I'm sure there are groups that did it without a Vent server, but I wouldn't think they are in the majority that have completed it.
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Ok yes, fine is relative and yes CoP needs a little tune up, but nevertheless we need a MoCoP badge like we'd need a hole drilled through our heads.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
Well, if a villainside run slowing down to a slideshow reminiscent of the 100+ man Hamidon raids is considered "fine".
 Srsly...that was horrible. I was getting close to 1 frame per second at times on that on a Radeon HD 5750. Can't even imagine trying it with anything lesser. And yes, settings were cranked down to pretty low. If the MoCoP were based on solely YOUR team not using temps and not being defeated, possibly. But relying on 24 people to not be defeated, with no nukes and no shivans on a broken AV? That dog won't hunt monseuir. |
Now if running CoP helps provide components to craft Incarnate powers like they say the RSF/STF/LGTF/ITF/Khan/CUDA TF/SF's are supposedly able to then that's fine.
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Slight fix there. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I've "experienced" practising during beta. The only way to currently succeed on a consistent basis is to have everybody on a Vent/TS server [keeping their inane banter to themselves and following instructions from the leader or leaders, and not constantly spamming broadcast for instructions or with inane drivel] and only with a select group of people.
. |
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Actually before the Incarnate System was yanked, there was an option to get a Penumbra of Rularuu incarnate salvage. Most players just converted Incarnate Shards to get this.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Now if running CoP helps provide components to craft Incarnate powers like they say the RSF/STF/LGTF/ITF/Khan/CUDA TF/SF's are supposedly able to then that's fine.
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I'd also like to point out that master runs were NOT required to get Incarnate Salvage. There wasn't any upgrade or added benefit to doing a master run in terms of Incarnate salvage.
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Slight clarification: I meant standard CoP, not a MoCoP for incarnate salvage. Also its good that standard runs of the assorted TF/SF's are all that's needed for incarnate drops.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Actually before the Incarnate System was yanked, there was an option to get a Penumbra of Rularuu incarnate salvage. Most players just converted Incarnate Shards to get this.
I'd also like to point out that master runs were NOT required to get Incarnate Salvage. There wasn't any upgrade or added benefit to doing a master run in terms of Incarnate salvage. |
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I never assumed they were specifically changing the Alpha slot. That's kind of my point - I'm not assuming ANYTHING about this system until we see how far they decide to change it to make it work.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
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Originally Posted by Positron Quote:
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As for finding "something to use it with" it would seem very obvious to me that the only thing you could use stupid-awesome Incarnate power in this game for is for things EXACTLY like a Mo-CoP. What other kinds of things would you suggest that such a system like the Incarnate system would be used for?
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Why exactly would it be impossible for there to be "Incarnate-only" content which would turn out to be be as hard as what a Mo-CoP might be? Just because previous MoTFs followed the "no temp powers and zero defeats" model doesn't mean future ones couldn't be even harder/different due to different requirements.
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The problem stems from the fact that the common & uncommon Alpha slot isn't "stupid-awesome". It is an extra 5%-12% bonus to powers that are slotted to ED levels, and up to a 33% bonus to one aspect if it isn't slotted to ED. It is an extra Single Origin in all your powers that a part (1/6 or 1/3) ignores ED -- only for powers that accept that type of enhancement. Does that scream "stupid-awesome" to you?
The only aspect that could affect things is the level shift, and there is already means to balance it out: negative level shifts. Castle already warned players that even though players can get positive level shifts, enemies will get the negative level shifts.
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Isn't the whole idea of a "Master of" badge to show that a group of people have enough synchronization and intelligence to complete a TF/SF in such a manner as to obtain it? The MoCoP wouldn't just be a, "Wow, grats on Mo(SF/TF here), I guess it took you like one post on the forum to coordinate such an effort." If anything, there should be an incentive to a MoCoP for a SG, like I don't know, a permanent IoP object that can be activated to obtain a temporary power?
I personally like the Master of badges, but I will have to say "Hell No!" to this one. Way too many variables to screw things up for everyone. A 8 man team is one thing, but 24, too much can happen. And if 1 teams fails its overwith.
Besides, this is a trial, not a Strike Force or Task force. And I do belive ther isn't a Master of badge for a trial. And I'd like to keep it that way, lets not make these badges trivial.
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I'm with Beefers and the others against a MoCoP.
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One more time I'll just point out that it's probably not safe to assume what we think we know about the Incarnate system today will turn out to be the case when it finally goes live. Remember what IoPs were "supposed" to be like before the Devs scrapped that concept?|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The problem stems from the fact that the common & uncommon Alpha slot isn't "stupid-awesome". It is an extra 5%-12% bonus to powers that are slotted to ED levels, and up to a 33% bonus to one aspect if it isn't slotted to ED. It is an extra Single Origin in all your powers that a part (1/6 or 1/3) ignores ED -- only for powers that accept that type of enhancement. Does that scream "stupid-awesome" to you?
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I'm assuming -nothing- about how it's going to work until it finally gets re-engineered into whatever the Devs need it to be. *shrugs*
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Not exactly sure why a master version of a trial would make these kind of badges "trivial".|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
I personally like the Master of badges, but I will have to say "Hell No!" to this one. Way too many variables to screw things up for everyone. A 8 man team is one thing, but 24, too much can happen. And if 1 teams fails its overwith.
Besides, this is a trial, not a Strike Force or Task force. And I do belive ther isn't a Master of badge for a trial. And I'd like to keep it that way, lets not make these badges trivial. |
And I'm not exactly sure why there could never be a master version of a trial either. *shrugs*
As MMOs age there's always a tendency for the Devs to add increasingly difficult content to challenge top end players. I'd have to say all this negative reaction to the idea of a super-hard challenge (like a mythical Mo-CoP) is more or less shortsighted. If the Devs don't specifically introduce a Mo-CoP it's still fairly likely that we're eventually going to get something equivalent to what that would be like.
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I don't think that a MoCop would trivialize the Mo badges, however an MoCop badge based on no one of the 24 people in the trial getting killed would likely be more impossible to obtain then finding the Holy Grail. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Not exactly sure why a master version of a trial would make these kind of badges "trivial".
And I'm not exactly sure why there could never be a master version of a trial either. *shrugs* As MMOs age there's always a tendency for the Devs to add increasingly difficult content to challenge top end players. I'd have to say all this negative reaction to the idea of a super-hard challenge (like a mythical Mo-CoP) is more or less shortsighted. If the Devs don't specifically introduce a Mo-CoP it's still fairly likely that we're eventually going to get something equivalent to what that would be like. |
Also isn't the CoP still a bit buggy?
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Yes Castle confirmed the current CoP is allowing the AV to shoot through his "Affect Self Only" shield. We can only assume this trial will be a bit easier when he isn't randomly one-shoting squishies with impunity. |
Originally Posted by Nericus
I don't think that a MoCop would trivialize the Mo badges, however an MoCop badge based on no one of the 24 people in the trial getting killed would likely be more impossible to obtain then finding the Holy Grail.
Also isn't the CoP still a bit buggy? |
But as far as a possible Mo-CoP goes who's to say exactly what the requirements would be. It's possible it'd follow the standard "no deaths, no temp powers" paradigm but they could easily come up with almost anything to make it harder. As Beefy pointed out this is a trial not a TF/SF so the details of what would make it a "master level trial" could be fairly different.
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Actually Castle said that they couldn't replicate it.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Yes Castle confirmed the current CoP is allowing the AV to shoot through his "Affect Self Only" shield. We can only assume this trial will be a bit easier when he isn't randomly one-shoting squishies with impunity.
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I volunteer to head into a mish with the devs and show them.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Actually Castle said that they couldn't replicate it.
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I'm quite confident that at the very least, the No Death rule would be in place for any and all Mo badges. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yes Castle confirmed the current CoP is allowing the AV to shoot through his "Affect Self Only" shield. We can only assume this trial will be a bit easier when he isn't randomly one-shoting squishies with impunity.
But as far as a possible Mo-CoP goes who's to say exactly what the requirements would be. It's possible it'd follow the standard "no deaths, no temp powers" paradigm but they could easily come up with almost anything to make it harder. As Beefy pointed out this is a trial not a TF/SF so the details of what would make it a "master level trial" could be fairly different. |
Also I can confirm that CoP is indeed bugged as we just ran one and the AV was indeed blasting us through his own shield. Also once his shield goes down and we pound him until the shield is restored, his regen rate seems a bit...high....even for an AV.
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Or else record the thing with the AV blasting away with the shield up and then youtube it and give them the link to it.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
I volunteer to head into a mish with the devs and show them.
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While I didn't youtube it, I did a demorecord and posted a link for Castle to download it. I also dug through the demofile and found where he attacked me. I posted screenshots and where to find the offending attacks in the file. I even posted pictures of the offences (above).
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Originally Posted by Nericus
Or else record the thing with the AV blasting away with the shield up and then youtube it and give them the link to it.
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No mention of the SG badge in this thread ?
100 successful runs of the CoP, I hope that gets dropped to 25 or so in the future.
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Yet, anyway. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Actually Castle said that they couldn't replicate it.
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When a bunch of users can easily generate recordings documenting a bug and a Dev responds with something like "they couldn't replicate it" that disconnect usually means something more along the lines of Castle telling us, "That bug is going to be relatively hard to solve and instead of getting the players' hopes up that we're going to be able to fix this quickly I'd rather be non-committal about it."
Trust me - as software engineer with nearly 20 years of professional experience I've heard just about every "the dog ate my homework" type of excuse when it comes to software issues. Reading between the lines of "Dev-speak" becomes pretty easy to do...
It's not that I'm trying to take anything away from the fine work people like Castle do.
It's just that based on that response it's likely we won't see a fix for this issue instantaneously.
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While 100 times is a bit much that badge is actually farmable by even one person, assuming that person was so inclined to waste 100 solid hours doing it. Despite what the badge says it's keyed to trial attempts, not successes. |
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
No mention of the SG badge in this thread ?
100 successful runs of the CoP, I hope that gets dropped to 25 or so in the future. |
From what I understand the number needed for this badge was originally more like 25 successful completions at one point, but the Devs couldn't get the badge counting to trigger reliably upon successful trial completion.
Apparently the switch to 100 attempts was a compromise for making the badge technically easier to earn because now all you need to do to get credit for it is to be in SG mode at the "end" of the trial regardless if the trial ends successfully or if you run out of time after a full hour.
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Actually in this case I think they were running a test bed without watching the results (simulated scenarios) without realizing that the AV wasn't generating combat or system spam...
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Originally Posted by Lothic
When a bunch of users can easily generate recordings documenting a bug and a Dev responds with something like "they couldn't replicate it" that disconnect usually means something more along the lines of Castle telling us, "That bug is going to be relatively hard to solve and instead of getting the players' hopes up that we're going to be able to fix this quickly I'd rather be non-committal about it."
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Quote:
Clearly whatever "testing" they did with this didn't catch the problem either during beta or since then.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Actually in this case I think they were running a test bed without watching the results (simulated scenarios) without realizing that the AV wasn't generating combat or system spam...
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I just was a little incredulous about Castle's claim about not being able to "replicate" this problem when apparently pretty much any player could manage that with a demorecord and a few minutes of time. Let's just say that his statement didn't really pass my initial "stink" test.
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Srsly...that was horrible. I was getting close to 1 frame per second at times on that on a Radeon HD 5750. Can't even imagine trying it with anything lesser. And yes, settings were cranked down to pretty low.
If the MoCoP were based on solely YOUR team not using temps and not being defeated, possibly. But relying on 24 people to not be defeated, with no nukes and no shivans on a broken AV? That dog won't hunt monseuir.